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Old December 15th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #1941
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Isn't Berlin Hbf busier, maybe, if we include S-Bahn traffic?
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Old December 15th, 2013, 08:47 PM   #1942
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I believe its S-Bahn traffic is comparable to F and M city tunnels. I'd say there's a little less in Köln.

Maybe one day, with S21...
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Old December 15th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #1943
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Old December 16th, 2013, 12:34 AM   #1944
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german wikipedia has the statistics, albeit differentiates between category of trains:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnhof...in_Deutschland
frankfurt boasts the most long-distance trains (342), munich the most local (597), and frankfurt the most s-banns. do not want to spend the night doing the math, but looks like munich actually wins closely followed by frankfurt.

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Old December 16th, 2013, 12:38 AM   #1945
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Apart from S-Bahn, I'd say Köln Hbf moves more trains than Hamburg Hbf, since it has much more capacity on both sides (and they use it). Maybe Deutz should be included.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 12:45 AM   #1946
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where did you get the passenger statistics? it is also an interesting question.
off hand i am surprised that frankfurt has less passengers despite having the much larger station. but then again it is local passengers that make up the lion's share of traffic and frankfurt is much smaller than either of the other two cities. as stated above berlin hbf is not a transfer point for s- and u-bahn and thus probably has less passengers than zoo, friedrichstraße or alex.
Just from wikipedia so who knows how precise (original DB link doesn't work anymore)… They claim 450,000 for Munich and Hamburg main stations, 350,000 for Frankfurt
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Old December 16th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #1947
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Does Germany has a plan to end the bizarre 16.7 Hz electrification and switch it to 25kV 50Hz so that it can be synchronized with the German (European) electric grid?
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Old December 16th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #1948
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none whatsoever. that would be such a huge project that it would bind all resources for years to come. and remember germany has a huge grid of regional lines that would have to be changed too, and then switzerland and austria would have to follow, all for a handful of border-crossing trains. db is concentrating on buying ice trains that work with different electric grids instead.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #1949
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none whatsoever. that would be such a huge project that it would bind all resources for years to come. and remember germany has a huge grid of regional lines that would have to be changed too, and then switzerland and austria would have to follow, all for a handful of border-crossing trains..
It would be a huge job indeed, and it wouldn't really serve a purpose.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #1950
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none whatsoever. that would be such a huge project that it would bind all resources for years to come. and remember germany has a huge grid of regional lines that would have to be changed too, and then switzerland and austria would have to follow, all for a handful of border-crossing trains. db is concentrating on buying ice trains that work with different electric grids instead.
But this would not be about the trains, but the grid. DB Netz effectively operates a shadow electric grid in Germany (for the difference in frequency). If it converted to 50Hz from the non-standard 16.7 Hz, it could use electricity from the regular grid.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 01:47 PM   #1951
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But this would not be about the trains, but the grid. DB Netz effectively operates a shadow electric grid in Germany (for the difference in frequency). If it converted to 50Hz from the non-standard 16.7 Hz, it could use electricity from the regular grid.
Do you think all the trains that are operating in Germany are fit to work under 25kV 50Hz?
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Old December 16th, 2013, 02:06 PM   #1952
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Do you think all the trains that are operating in Germany are fit to work under 25kV 50Hz?
No, but you can start converting lines slowly, over a 20-year horizon. You can start with high-speed lines where only ICE trains can operate..
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Old December 16th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #1953
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Why would you want to? Most rolling stock is not suited, a lot of changes are needed to the current overhead lines and the current track circuits, PZB and LZB may not work with 25 kV 50 Hz.

The shadow grid also has an advantage: although changing the frequency will cost some effeciency, it also allows DB to synchronise the overhead frequency throughout their network without the need for many neutral sections.

If you were to change from 1.5 kV or 3 kV DC to 25 kV AC there is something to gain. With this change there isn't. Also check the EU rules: You are supposed to use 25 kV AC on HSLs, with the exception of countries that already have 15 kV AC and some lines in Italy with 3 kV DC. There is no obligation to switch to 25 kV on conventional lines, you can continue to use the national standard of a country as long as it's one of the 4 standardised systems.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 02:45 PM   #1954
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Today:

Quote:
http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/1...tment-in-2014/

Deutsche Bahn announces €4.6bn infrastructure investment in 2014
16 DEC, 2013

Deutsche Bahn (DB) is to spend €4.6 billion in 2014 on upgrades to Germany’s national rail network, the company has said.

Announcing the investment plan, DB said that throughout the year modernisation work will be carried out on more than 3,000 kilometers of track and 2,350 points.

Dr Volker Kefer, member of the management board for technology and infrastructure at DB, said: “Just for the maintenance, we will spend about €200 million more than last year.”

Key projects include:
  • The construction of a third track on the Hamburg-Hannover line between Lüneburg and Stelle.
  • Improvement works on the Frankfurt-Fulda line’s Schlüchterner tunnel alongside a refurbishment of Frankfurt Central’s long-distance platforms.
  • Bridge works on the Rosenheim-Salzburg segment of the Munich-Salzburg line.
  • Main lines replaced on the Karlsruhe-Mannheim line between Graben-Neudorf and Karlsruhe-Hagsfeld.
  • Munich-Ingolstadt line upgraded to allow 200 km/h operating speeds.
  • Integration of the high-speed Erfurt-Halle line with the completed City-Tunnel Leipzig.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 02:56 PM   #1955
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No, but you can start converting lines slowly, over a 20-year horizon. You can start with high-speed lines where only ICE trains can operate..
What do you think, how much lines exist where only ICE trains can operate?
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Old December 16th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #1956
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What do you think, how much lines exist where only ICE trains can operate?
Hannover - Fulda - Würzburg, Köln - Frankfurt, Berlin - Hannover?
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Old December 16th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #1957
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Hannover - Fulda - Würzburg, Köln - Frankfurt, Berlin - Hannover?
no, only Köln-Frankfurt!
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Old December 16th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #1958
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Hannover - Fulda - Würzburg, Köln - Frankfurt, Berlin - Hannover?
A way too much. There's only one: Köln-Frankfurt.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #1959
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germany has quite a different system from france, spain, italy. hsl's are basically ic lines where trains that are able to go 230/250, while conventional trains go 200/160 and stop more often. only 2 hsl's are capable of 300 kmh: frankfurt-cologne and nuremberg-ingolstadt. while the former is operated as a dedicated line, the latter follows the mixed concept as described above. i do not know if trains capable of 300 kmh are even allowed to go that fast while there are regional expresses (160 kmh) and slower ice's on the line. one may question what is the bigger waste of money: to construct lines capable of 300 kmh and then run slow trains on them or to reserve them only for long-distance travelers. i am afraid db will follow the former concept for the future leipzig-nuremberg line.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 05:10 PM   #1960
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Munich - Nuremberg (München - Nürnberg) RE trains are actually IC trainsets with class 101 locos so that they can go by 200 km/h. And yes, ICE trains are definitely allowed to go by 300 any time.
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