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Old January 25th, 2006, 07:51 AM   #21
LordMarshall
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intresting how it developed through time
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Old January 25th, 2006, 08:16 AM   #22
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The real mystery to me are the architects and planners. Who planned these structures and who designed them!
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Old January 25th, 2006, 08:39 AM   #23
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wait if the city was under no juresdiction who built those buldings. which company would build in an area thats in legal limbo?

and how did they cramp 35,000 people in that small ass area?

the more i read about the Kowloon Walled City the more im saddend by the fact that i cant invastigate it.
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Old January 25th, 2006, 08:47 AM   #24
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are the buildings part of the wall of the old fort or what?

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Old January 25th, 2006, 08:52 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordMarshall
are the buildings part of the wall of the old fort or what?

The buildings that are there right now are where the walls used to be. They are inter connected forming a wall.
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Old January 25th, 2006, 08:54 AM   #26
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cool.

so the other question is how was it built?

did they contract the local construction firm to do it or how?
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Old January 25th, 2006, 09:00 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordMarshall
cool.

so the other question is how was it built?

did they contract the local construction firm to do it or how?
See that's the mystery there!

By the way, to answer Samsonyuen's question. Here is what I found

Briefly mentioned in the history portion of this web page, the existence and evolution of KWC are intertwined with the political struggles between China and Great Britain, occupying Hong Kong since 1841. Basically the indecision and ignorance between the two countries over the occupation of KWC lead to the city's lack of government, and its inevitable self-organization and problems with crime and drugs.

In the Peking Convention of 1898, which leased Hong Kong to Britain for 99 years, the Walled City was excluded, the Chinese governing the area on condition they would not interfere with troops stationed to defend Hong Kong. Britain quickly rescinded the unofficial agreement, announcing in December 1899 that KWC would become "part and parcel of Her Majesty's Colony of Hong Kong". After Britain attacked the Walled City the same year, only to find it deserted, they failed to demonstrate control over the city, leaving it pretty much alone, their inaction adding to confusion over the city's rule.

China, likewise, never recognized Britain's claim to the Walled City, though for the years between the turn of the century and World War II the city was more of a tourist attraction than a residential settlement. Two events led to a resurgence of people back into KWC: Japan surrendering in WWII (previously having demolished most of the city to lay airport runways during their brief occupation), and the formation of the Republic of China in 1949. The refugee influx, due mostly to the latter, was steady, reaching about 10,000 residents in 1970. In this time the British government attempted to evacuate the squatters after an unsuccessful proposal to turn the jurisdiction of KWC into a "Garden of Remembrance of Anglo-Chinese trusteeship" (which the Chinese flatly rejected). The evacuations lead to riots as the expelled tried to return to the city, causing the British to drop the evictions to prevent further deterioration of Anglo-Chinese relations. From this moment on (ca. 1949) the British Government adopted a "hands-off" policy towards the Walled City.

What happened in the following years gave KWC its reputation as "a cesspool of iniquity, with heroin divans, brothels and everything unsavory." The blossoming of the city under no apparent rule continued with occasional, unsuccessful raids and evacuations over the years. A murder trial in 1959 illustrates the confusion over governing the city: a British court ruled that since the murder had been committed within the Walled City it was out of their jurisdiction, but looking at the Peking Convention they realized the city under Chinese jurisdiction was temporary. Fifty years later and still nobody is certain who's rule KWC falls under!

In the "bad" years of the 1950s and '60s much of the power lay in the hands of the Triads: a republican secret society against Imperial Manchu rule, when formed in the late 19th century, turning to more "dubious activities as a way of raising funds" (drugs, prostitution and gambling). Much of their control dissipated when police made over 3,000 raids and 2,500 arrests in the 1973 and '74, another turning point.

The 1970s saw improved Anglo-Chinese relations and a continuation of the "high-rise" boom of the previous decade. This decade, and the following, also saw KWC at its peak: the population increasing up to 350,000 in 1983, with less crime than the rest of Hong Kong. With the improved relations between Britain and China the announcement, in 1987, of the Walled City's demise is not surprising. Neither government saw it as an asset or as something they wanted to take responsibility for, but both agreed that it had to comedown. The city existed outside the realm of the understandable or the comprehendible; a grotesque, dense mass that exhibited a certain beauty at the same time. It depended on the political tension of two countries to exist, yet, ironically, was an un-political entity. By cleaning the slate both governments wanted to start afresh, but hopefully material, like this web page and the resources mentioned in the bibliography, will keep the city alive.
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Old January 25th, 2006, 09:19 AM   #28
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This be a better picture for people to understand how AMAZING this thing is, no street planning, all the building is interconnected:
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Old January 25th, 2006, 09:55 AM   #29
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Wanch, how on earth did a fort, a real historic walled city transform into this surrealistic hulking mass?
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Old January 25th, 2006, 10:02 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redstone
Wanch, how on earth did a fort, a real historic walled city transform into this surrealistic hulking mass?
Several factors

1) The uncertainty of which country will take control over the Walled City whether it's Great Britain or China. To say, the area within the Kowloon Walled City was not considered part of Great Britain.

2) The rise of heroin and opium addicts in the area

3) Triads gained control of the area

4) The rise of immigration from the mainland during the formation of PRC.
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Old January 25th, 2006, 10:08 AM   #31
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more images of the KWC











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Old January 25th, 2006, 10:10 AM   #32
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I think the biggest mystery would be how can layers of slums stay up and not cave in on itself?
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Old January 25th, 2006, 10:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redstone
I think the biggest mystery would be how can layers of slums stay up and not cave in on itself?
That's one of the mysteries

BTW, The KWC got introduced in the world through the movie Bloodsport where you see Jean Claude Van Damme and his partners walk through the city's dark alleyways. The KWC was the site of the kumite fights in the movie!
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Old January 25th, 2006, 11:23 AM   #34
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So it was once a real city, and then slums started to rise over the original buildings?
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Old January 25th, 2006, 11:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redstone
So it was once a real city, and then slums started to rise over the original buildings?
It was a fort. But tenements rose over the orignal structures.
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Old January 25th, 2006, 11:43 AM   #36
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originally it was a fort, and it become neutral, slums moving in start building house. It is so many mysteriesssss around KWC, here are few:
Who build them and how?
Without architects and engineers why didn't cave in?
Why the crime so low when there has no police inside?
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Old January 25th, 2006, 11:48 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexas
originally it was a fort, and it become neutral, slums moving in start building house. It is so many mysteriesssss around KWC, here are few:
Who build them and how?
Without architects and engineers why didn't cave in?
Why the crime so low when there has no police inside?
I can partly answer the crime issue.

Crime in the KWC dropped when it's residents formed a patrol unit. And the Royal HK Police (at that time) did patrol inside mostly doing some investigations.

The RHKP conducted over 3,000 raids during 1973-74 and mde 2,500 arrests.
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Old January 25th, 2006, 11:58 AM   #38
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I was inside once...buying opium and discarding a dead body
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Old January 25th, 2006, 12:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexas
I was inside once...buying opium and discarding a dead body
I was too

By the way, besides the crime and drug addiction, alot of missionaries went inside the Walled City and have converted many drug addicts to devoted Christians
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Old January 25th, 2006, 12:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WANCH
That's one of the mysteries

BTW, The KWC got introduced in the world through the movie Bloodsport where you see Jean Claude Van Damme and his partners walk through the city's dark alleyways. The KWC was the site of the kumite fights in the movie!
Really? I don't know about this film. I know a film was made with scenes in the KWC but I don't know it was acted by Jean Claude Van Damme. Then, I must have. Is it still easy to find the DVD for this film in HK?
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