daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 16th, 2007, 03:22 AM   #181
xAKxRUSx
Registered User
 
xAKxRUSx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Moscow
Posts: 2,658
Likes (Received): 7067

What about smoking? lol

Are you talking about the smoking lawsuits?

And the city doesn't "keep" money for themselves... how do you think your city has schools? If they're public, they belong to the city/state.
xAKxRUSx no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 16th, 2007, 09:57 PM   #182
Taylorhoge
Registered User
 
Taylorhoge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,597
Likes (Received): 10

they get that from the federal government and the city keeps half and the other goes to the schools which baiscally dont have textbooks that are falling apart they dont have adequite art classes anymore along with money for gyms and closing bus routes,Then you have schools with cutback on school lunch programs and now companies have taken over the program.As well as there is more beefed up security at schools now which is not the right way to handle that sort of situation.So anyways lets go back to the topic.
Taylorhoge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2007, 12:29 AM   #183
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

Las Vegas mayor suggests medieval stocks for graffiti vandals

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/st...072310708.html

July 23, 2006

Las Vegas mayor suggests medieval stocks for graffiti vandals

ASSOCIATED PRESS

LAS VEGAS (AP) - Mayor Oscar Goodman is suggesting a strange, new punishment for graffiti vandals: bind them in a medieval-style stocks and give the public a chance to paint their faces.

"This would be a great deterrent," Goodman said, adding the city attorney's office was researching whether the proposal was constitutional. "I want to see if it falls under cruel or unusual punishment. If not, great. Let's put it into effect."

For months, Goodman has complained about so-called graffiti taggers and even proposed that removing their thumbs in public would serve as a deterrent. Until recently, he wouldn't back down from his proposal.

"We were not going to cut thumbs off," he said. "That was to begin discussions on the issue."

Michael Green, professor of history at Community College of Southern Nevada, wondered aloud if the mayor was serious. "I never expected Oscar to take a page from the pilgrims and Puritans," Green said.

Stocks are pivoting boards placed around the wrists and head, which are then locked in. Sometimes also locking in place feet, they were popular in medieval and puritanical times as a humiliating form of punishment.

Goodman explained that he would set out stocks in a public square and have a bucket of paint nearby.

"It wouldn't be in the hot sun or anything," he said. "Let him sit out there for an hour, people can come by and put some paint on his head, and let him walk around like that for a week or two."

Goodman has pitched this idea at a number of public events over the past few weeks, though it appears few have taken him seriously.

One constitutional expert said the proposal would not get far in court.

"Punishment of this sort, solely to embarrass and humiliate, violates the Eighth Amendment," Erwin Chemerinsky, a professor of law and political science at Duke University, wrote in an e-mail. "Putting people in stocks certainly is offensive to evolving standards of decency. And allowing people to put paint on individuals - repeated batteries - would never be tolerated in the courts."

Howard Rosenberg, a member of the university Board of Regents, criticized the mayor's off-the-cuff remarks.

"He really needs to use his head for something besides a hat rack," Rosenberg said. "Each time he's making one of these outrageous statements, it undercuts his effectiveness. What we need to do is come up with answers. Deal with it as cultural phenomenon, a psychological phenomenon."

He proposed a penalty of 1,500 hours spent cleaning up graffiti for those caught tagging.

Clark County's Juvenile Justice Services has a program that requires taggers to be assigned to community service to paint over the work of their counterparts.

The crime can also become a felony if the damage is more than $5,000, according to a city spokeswoman.

A 19-year-old Reno man was sentenced Wednesday to two years in jail for repeated graffiti crimes.
greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2007, 12:38 AM   #184
LosAngelesSportsFan
Moderator
 
LosAngelesSportsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,968
Likes (Received): 860

i wish the mayor of LA would do something like that. we need to increase the penalties for these idiots! if i ever caught a tagger, i would beat his ass, spray paint his face and ask him how he liked it. instead of washing it off, i would just paint over it with the basic gray that caltrans uses.
LosAngelesSportsFan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2007, 01:05 AM   #185
cjav
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rotterdam, New Haven
Posts: 725
Likes (Received): 117

So you paint some ugly shit on someone elses property... if you think its 'art'paint your own car and your own house... not someone elses. Damn scum should be shot.
cjav no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2007, 03:42 AM   #186
xAKxRUSx
Registered User
 
xAKxRUSx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Moscow
Posts: 2,658
Likes (Received): 7067

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorhoge View Post
they get that from the federal government and the city keeps half and the other goes to the schools which baiscally dont have textbooks that are falling apart they dont have adequite art classes anymore along with money for gyms and closing bus routes,Then you have schools with cutback on school lunch programs and now companies have taken over the program.As well as there is more beefed up security at schools now which is not the right way to handle that sort of situation.So anyways lets go back to the topic.
Oi! You know so little about the government.

This is part of the topic because graffitti costs tax-payers money which could go towards schools, healthcare, etc.
xAKxRUSx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2007, 08:29 AM   #187
Taylorhoge
Registered User
 
Taylorhoge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,597
Likes (Received): 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/st...072310708.html

July 23, 2006

Las Vegas mayor suggests medieval stocks for graffiti vandals

ASSOCIATED PRESS

LAS VEGAS (AP) - Mayor Oscar Goodman is suggesting a strange, new punishment for graffiti vandals: bind them in a medieval-style stocks and give the public a chance to paint their faces.

"This would be a great deterrent," Goodman said, adding the city attorney's office was researching whether the proposal was constitutional. "I want to see if it falls under cruel or unusual punishment. If not, great. Let's put it into effect."

For months, Goodman has complained about so-called graffiti taggers and even proposed that removing their thumbs in public would serve as a deterrent. Until recently, he wouldn't back down from his proposal.

"We were not going to cut thumbs off," he said. "That was to begin discussions on the issue."

Michael Green, professor of history at Community College of Southern Nevada, wondered aloud if the mayor was serious. "I never expected Oscar to take a page from the pilgrims and Puritans," Green said.

Stocks are pivoting boards placed around the wrists and head, which are then locked in. Sometimes also locking in place feet, they were popular in medieval and puritanical times as a humiliating form of punishment.

Goodman explained that he would set out stocks in a public square and have a bucket of paint nearby.

"It wouldn't be in the hot sun or anything," he said. "Let him sit out there for an hour, people can come by and put some paint on his head, and let him walk around like that for a week or two."

Goodman has pitched this idea at a number of public events over the past few weeks, though it appears few have taken him seriously.

One constitutional expert said the proposal would not get far in court.

"Punishment of this sort, solely to embarrass and humiliate, violates the Eighth Amendment," Erwin Chemerinsky, a professor of law and political science at Duke University, wrote in an e-mail. "Putting people in stocks certainly is offensive to evolving standards of decency. And allowing people to put paint on individuals - repeated batteries - would never be tolerated in the courts."

Howard Rosenberg, a member of the university Board of Regents, criticized the mayor's off-the-cuff remarks.

"He really needs to use his head for something besides a hat rack," Rosenberg said. "Each time he's making one of these outrageous statements, it undercuts his effectiveness. What we need to do is come up with answers. Deal with it as cultural phenomenon, a psychological phenomenon."

He proposed a penalty of 1,500 hours spent cleaning up graffiti for those caught tagging.

Clark County's Juvenile Justice Services has a program that requires taggers to be assigned to community service to paint over the work of their counterparts.

The crime can also become a felony if the damage is more than $5,000, according to a city spokeswoman.

A 19-year-old Reno man was sentenced Wednesday to two years in jail for repeated graffiti crimes.
What a stupid idea......people need to worry more about actual crimes like murder and drugs not art.I dont care what any of you guys think anyway Ill keep doing it.
Taylorhoge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2007, 10:56 AM   #188
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorhoge View Post
What a stupid idea......people need to worry more about actual crimes like murder and drugs not art.I dont care what any of you guys think anyway Ill keep doing it.
'Actual' crimes? So trespass and criminal damage aren't crimes any longer?

It could be argued that graffiti is a pretty bad crime, as it affects so many people and costs local authorities and transport companies around the world billions each year to put right... oh, and the vast majority is shit:

Acid-etched graffiti: Art?



'Dutch' / Etched graffiti: Art?



Tags: Art?

Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #189
Jean Luc
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 460
Likes (Received): 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar View Post
Tincans


Tangaras




Millenium
This is disgusting. Look at the first and third Tangaras - all the windows on the bottom deck (Tincan too) plus those in the doors are completely covered, and those in the vestibules mostly so, so that you couldn't see out them. This makes my blood boil. I and most people do not want to travel on trains in this condition. Those who do this are criminal scum and deserve to have everything thrown at them. May they contract leprosy and their hands or arms drop off as punishment.

This is an example of how stuffed up western society has become. The bleeding heart do-gooders make up every excuse under the sun to justify this vandalism and then in the next breath lecture us on how we should drive less and use public transport more in order to reduce traffic congestion, air pollution and mitigate climate change etc. Just shows how left wing ideology (rights but no responsibility) and rampant drug use have ruined so many minds.
Jean Luc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2007, 08:20 PM   #190
Valeroso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 506
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Luc View Post
This is disgusting. Look at the first and third Tangaras - all the windows on the bottom deck (Tincan too) plus those in the doors are completely covered, and those in the vestibules mostly so, so that you couldn't see out them. This makes my blood boil. I and most people do not want to travel on trains in this condition. Those who do this are criminal scum and deserve to have everything thrown at them. May they contract leprosy and their hands or arms drop off as punishment. .
I agree, those pictures Avatar posted don't look nice at all, and I hate graffiti on trains and any other forms of public transport. To comfort you however, I've never caught a train (from memory anyway) that had been grafitied, and actually, I can't ever remember seeing a train in such a condition either. There is probably graffiti issues around Sydney, but I don't think the train network is suffering a graffiti epidemic.

Plus, even if a minority condone such works, I doubt a ruling Government would ever be tolerant of it on such things such as trains, buses, and other places, etc. For me, trains would never look good with graffiti, but an example of where I think graffiti (not tagging) have worked well are in some lanes in Melbourne.
Valeroso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2007, 12:09 PM   #191
Jean Luc
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 460
Likes (Received): 15

I've never seen trains as bad as the Tangaras I mentioned above, but I have seen the occassional train in service as bad as the Tincan, second Tangara and Millenium i.e. grafitti at the bottom of the carriages, where they could reach, and I've seen plenty of scribble and scrawl inside carriages, mainly in the vestibules.

Why don't urban rail operators build secure sheds in which to store trains overnight and outside peak periods? Include all the usual security measures like CCTV, lights, motion detectors, alarms on all doors, guards etc and I'm sure that grafitti on the outside of trains would be almost eliminated.

Sydney's Millenium trains have CCTV inside them, and as a result I've hardly seen any vandalism in them yet.
Jean Luc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2007, 07:04 PM   #192
Jape
Resurrected User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 52

Quote:
Originally Posted by xAKxRUSx View Post
Graffitti is as much "art" as a rock through your window.

Graffitti is as much "art" as my fist in the face of those "artists."

I don't want to see their shit. You want to scratch shit out on windows? Do it on the windows of your home. You want to draw? Do it on your own walls.
Your face as well as you window or house belongs only to you, it's private property. But railway stations, trains and that kind of things are used by everyone, so everyone should be able to affect how they are like.

As far as I know, most real writers don't even respect those who touch others private property.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xAKxRUSx View Post
I don't want to see their shit.
Ok, I don't like cars and public adverts. I don't want to see "their shit". What should I do now?
Jape no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2007, 09:09 PM   #193
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

Helsinki District Court sentenced four men to prison in a massive graffiti case

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Fou.../1101981025834

Four get prison sentences for graffiti - total of 22 convictions

Helsinki District Court sentenced four men to prison Tuesday in a massive graffiti case. Most of the 22 people who were convicted got off with fines. The court also ordered the perpetrators to pay tens of thousands of euros in compensation for the vandalism. Only two defendants were acquitted.

The prison sentences were among the harshest ever handed down in Finland for defacing property with graffiti.

The police investigation was exceptionally large for a case such as this one. The number of suspects, injured parties, and individual acts of vandalism was very high. Most of the crimes took place in 2003 and 2004.

The harshest sentence, a year and five months, was given to a 19-year-old Helsinki man. He was convicted of more than 200 acts of vandalism, one of which was considered aggravated.

In the aggravated case, he and two other men had spray-painted an area of about 300 square metres on six waggons of the Helsinki Metro. He was also found to have used a felt-tip marker to deface the interiors of public transport vehicles.

The court ordered him to pay a total of more than EUR 17,000 in damages to Helsinki city Transport (HKL), the state railway company VR, and the Finnish Rail Administration.

The prison sentence was not suspended because the man had two prior criminal convictions as a juvenile.

A 22-year-old Helsinki man was sentenced to a year and four months imprisonment. The court found him guilty of more than 240 acts of vandalism. He was ordered to pay more than EUR 12,000 in damages. Most of the compensations are to go to HKL, VR, and the City of Helsinki.

The court felt that the sentence should be near the maximum for the crimes, because of the large number of acts, and because the man had been received a number of suspended sentences.

However, the court noted that it had reduced the punishment by six months, because the man had helped investigators by volunteering information on what he had done.

Also getting prison sentences were two men - a 23-year-old and an 18-year-old.

The court handed down suspended prison sentences to 12 men and one woman.

Most of the defendants in the case were between the ages of 17 and 23. One 34-year-old was given a suspended sentence.
greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2007, 09:38 PM   #194
Taylorhoge
Registered User
 
Taylorhoge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,597
Likes (Received): 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Fou.../1101981025834

Four get prison sentences for graffiti - total of 22 convictions

Helsinki District Court sentenced four men to prison Tuesday in a massive graffiti case. Most of the 22 people who were convicted got off with fines. The court also ordered the perpetrators to pay tens of thousands of euros in compensation for the vandalism. Only two defendants were acquitted.

The prison sentences were among the harshest ever handed down in Finland for defacing property with graffiti.

The police investigation was exceptionally large for a case such as this one. The number of suspects, injured parties, and individual acts of vandalism was very high. Most of the crimes took place in 2003 and 2004.

The harshest sentence, a year and five months, was given to a 19-year-old Helsinki man. He was convicted of more than 200 acts of vandalism, one of which was considered aggravated.

In the aggravated case, he and two other men had spray-painted an area of about 300 square metres on six waggons of the Helsinki Metro. He was also found to have used a felt-tip marker to deface the interiors of public transport vehicles.

The court ordered him to pay a total of more than EUR 17,000 in damages to Helsinki city Transport (HKL), the state railway company VR, and the Finnish Rail Administration.

The prison sentence was not suspended because the man had two prior criminal convictions as a juvenile.

A 22-year-old Helsinki man was sentenced to a year and four months imprisonment. The court found him guilty of more than 240 acts of vandalism. He was ordered to pay more than EUR 12,000 in damages. Most of the compensations are to go to HKL, VR, and the City of Helsinki.

The court felt that the sentence should be near the maximum for the crimes, because of the large number of acts, and because the man had been received a number of suspended sentences.

However, the court noted that it had reduced the punishment by six months, because the man had helped investigators by volunteering information on what he had done.

Also getting prison sentences were two men - a 23-year-old and an 18-year-old.

The court handed down suspended prison sentences to 12 men and one woman.

Most of the defendants in the case were between the ages of 17 and 23. One 34-year-old was given a suspended sentence.
Shut up I dont care what happened to a group of people in Helsinki you dont like it deal with it and Tubeman I never said I like attached stuff personnally I hate it becuase those guys dont do it for the art they do it to tag.
Taylorhoge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2007, 10:04 PM   #195
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorhoge View Post
Tubeman I never said I like attached stuff personnally I hate it becuase those guys dont do it for the art they do it to tag.
Yes but sadly its all a part of the 'culture' and as I already said for every decent piece there are tens of thousands of shit tags blighting every surface.

And do I take it from you starting to tell people to shut up that deep down you haven't actaully got a leg to stand on defending graffiti? Nobody denies that a good piece is artistic and takes a lot of skill, what the debate is is that if they are sprayed on public or other people's property then its criminal. Its pretty straightforward.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2007, 10:14 PM   #196
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Oh, and yet another suspected writer got squished by one of our trains at Barking last night, that's three fatalities in a month and yet another traumatised driver. Good job young man... well bloody done! You've wrecked a driver's life and that of your family for the sake of some shitty tags which will be buffed off before they even hit passenger service.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2007, 04:20 AM   #197
xAKxRUSx
Registered User
 
xAKxRUSx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Moscow
Posts: 2,658
Likes (Received): 7067

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jape View Post
Your face as well as you window or house belongs only to you, it's private property. But railway stations, trains and that kind of things are used by everyone, so everyone should be able to affect how they are like.

As far as I know, most real writers don't even respect those who touch others private property.



Ok, I don't like cars and public adverts. I don't want to see "their shit". What should I do now?
Well obviously it's a great idea to go around smashing windows of those cars. Obviously. Or maybe just spray paint them? Yea, thats a great idea. I don't like it, so I am going to show it by vandalizing it.

Public property belongs to everyone. So if it is a certain way, it should be left that way, unless the public wants it differently (ie a vote). What the vandals do is they just vandalize it and increase the cost to society. Etc etc etc.
xAKxRUSx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2007, 05:02 AM   #198
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

In reading this thread, it is interesting to see how those who create the graffiti rationalize that what they are doing is okay. There seem to be two principal trains of thought:

1. Graffiti is okay because it is art.

2. Creating graffiti on public property is okay because it is a legitimate public use.

There is also the theory that graffiti is acceptable as a means of political protest; however, this claim is a hard sell in most western countries as there are many other outlets for political expression that do not involve vandalism.

There is no hope of convincing the creator of graffiti that they have done anything wrong because they have already rationalized that what they are doing is okay. The only hope is to alert them that what they are doing is illegal and that if they continue to engage in such activities they may find themselves behind bars.
greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2007, 05:19 AM   #199
Taylorhoge
Registered User
 
Taylorhoge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,597
Likes (Received): 10

Well Im srry I was a little drunk so I may have condricted myself.
However yes it is apart of it but most writers and artist find it unattractive at least from what I have seen and the guys in London RIP im srry for what I said before about them.However to greg you cant stop graffiti and that even i you do stop your city from doing that it wont bother me I like what I do becuase it defies mainstream and I like art and the fact Im doing it with a spraypaint can and thats my opinion so whether you like it or not thats the way it is.
Taylorhoge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2007, 05:33 AM   #200
Jean Luc
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 460
Likes (Received): 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jape View Post
Your face as well as you window or house belongs only to you, it's private property. But railway stations, trains and that kind of things are used by everyone, so everyone should be able to affect how they are like.
You only have the right to grafitti your own property and that of others if you have the owner's permission. With public property like trains and railway stations these vandals do not receive permission from the owners (the public) before committing their acts, so what they are doing is illegal. Pure and simple.
Jean Luc no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium