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Old February 12th, 2007, 12:58 AM   #161
greg_christine
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Tagger Accused Of $70,000 In Damage Receives Prison Time

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/10956228/det...ss=la&psp=news

Tagger Accused Of $70,000 In Damage Receives Prison Time

POSTED: 1:20 pm PST February 7, 2007
UPDATED: 1:43 pm PST February 7, 2007

LOS ANGELES -- A prolific tagger who caused more than $70,000 in damage to buses, trains and passenger stations in Los Angeles County will serve time in prison.

Bryant Mangum, 27, entered into a plea deal and remains in custody in Los Angeles pending transfer to a state lockup, according to sheriff's officials.

Mangum was arrested Nov. 21 after a search warrant was served at a residence in the 1200 block of West 84th Place, where he lived with his grandmother, said Sgt. Augie Pando of the sheriff's Transit Services Bureau.

At the home, deputies found hundreds of gummed labels, also known as "slap tags," with Mangum's name on them, along with numerous cans of spray paint, two 5-gallon drums of paint, books containing examples of his tagging, and a tool chest containing tagging paraphernalia, Pando said.

Mangum, also known as "Sight," is affiliated with a group called UPN, which stands for "Ur Property Next," Pando said.

"Upon learning that he was facing between eight and 30 years in state prison for his 45 documented felony vandalism cases, Mangum pleaded guilty and accepted an offer of eight years and four months in the state prison system," Pando said.
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Old February 12th, 2007, 04:02 AM   #162
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Okay there throwing away kids who make art for 8 to 30 years then there is something definatley wrong with Judicial system in this country.
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Old February 12th, 2007, 04:12 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/10956228/det...ss=la&psp=news

Tagger Accused Of $70,000 In Damage Receives Prison Time

POSTED: 1:20 pm PST February 7, 2007
UPDATED: 1:43 pm PST February 7, 2007

LOS ANGELES -- A prolific tagger who caused more than $70,000 in damage to buses, trains and passenger stations in Los Angeles County will serve time in prison.

Bryant Mangum, 27, entered into a plea deal and remains in custody in Los Angeles pending transfer to a state lockup, according to sheriff's officials.

Mangum was arrested Nov. 21 after a search warrant was served at a residence in the 1200 block of West 84th Place, where he lived with his grandmother, said Sgt. Augie Pando of the sheriff's Transit Services Bureau.

At the home, deputies found hundreds of gummed labels, also known as "slap tags," with Mangum's name on them, along with numerous cans of spray paint, two 5-gallon drums of paint, books containing examples of his tagging, and a tool chest containing tagging paraphernalia, Pando said.

Mangum, also known as "Sight," is affiliated with a group called UPN, which stands for "Ur Property Next," Pando said.

"Upon learning that he was facing between eight and 30 years in state prison for his 45 documented felony vandalism cases, Mangum pleaded guilty and accepted an offer of eight years and four months in the state prison system," Pando said.
Serves him right!!!

Hope he meets Bubbles!!!

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Originally Posted by Taylorhoge View Post
Okay there throwing away kids who make art for 8 to 30 years then there is something definatley wrong with Judicial system in this country.
He's making "art" at the expense of everyone else.

If he wants to make "art" he can do it inside his own home. Or buy a wall and do it there.
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Old February 12th, 2007, 05:34 AM   #164
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Maybe he wants to say something Artists who do murals on walls sometimes arent allowed to do it but they still do it.Graffiti is an art it will always be an art even if some people deny that it isnt.Most Graff is for the art and not towards someone tagging a name on a Highway divider. Thats what people outside of Graffiti culture think its nothing more but little scratches on a train.But there is more then just that theres a whole following towards the art and the culture its been present for years now. If were imprisoning people for writing on walls for 30 years while we have much bigger problems to deal with throughout our country.
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Old February 12th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Taylorhoge View Post
Maybe he wants to say something Artists who do murals on walls sometimes arent allowed to do it but they still do it.Graffiti is an art it will always be an art even if some people deny that it isnt.Most Graff is for the art and not towards someone tagging a name on a Highway divider. Thats what people outside of Graffiti culture think its nothing more but little scratches on a train.But there is more then just that theres a whole following towards the art and the culture its been present for years now. If were imprisoning people for writing on walls for 30 years while we have much bigger problems to deal with throughout our country.
Graffitti is as much "art" as a rock through your window.

Graffitti is as much "art" as my fist in the face of those "artists."

I don't want to see their shit. You want to scratch shit out on windows? Do it on the windows of your home. You want to draw? Do it on your own walls.
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Old February 13th, 2007, 03:21 AM   #166
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At least its better to look at something more colorful and appeling rather then a plain brick wall.
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Old February 13th, 2007, 07:51 AM   #167
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I'll take a brick wall anyday over the shit that was posted earlier in this thread.
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Old February 13th, 2007, 08:07 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/10956228/det...ss=la&psp=news

Tagger Accused Of $70,000 In Damage Receives Prison Time

POSTED: 1:20 pm PST February 7, 2007
UPDATED: 1:43 pm PST February 7, 2007

LOS ANGELES -- A prolific tagger who caused more than $70,000 in damage to buses, trains and passenger stations in Los Angeles County will serve time in prison.

Bryant Mangum, 27, entered into a plea deal and remains in custody in Los Angeles pending transfer to a state lockup, according to sheriff's officials.

Mangum was arrested Nov. 21 after a search warrant was served at a residence in the 1200 block of West 84th Place, where he lived with his grandmother, said Sgt. Augie Pando of the sheriff's Transit Services Bureau.

At the home, deputies found hundreds of gummed labels, also known as "slap tags," with Mangum's name on them, along with numerous cans of spray paint, two 5-gallon drums of paint, books containing examples of his tagging, and a tool chest containing tagging paraphernalia, Pando said.

Mangum, also known as "Sight," is affiliated with a group called UPN, which stands for "Ur Property Next," Pando said.

"Upon learning that he was facing between eight and 30 years in state prison for his 45 documented felony vandalism cases, Mangum pleaded guilty and accepted an offer of eight years and four months in the state prison system," Pando said.
That's not the first time it happened. There was a graffiti writer from LA (GKAE) who was sentenced 3 years for tagging.
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Old February 13th, 2007, 11:50 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorhoge View Post
Maybe he wants to say something Artists who do murals on walls sometimes arent allowed to do it but they still do it.Graffiti is an art it will always be an art even if some people deny that it isnt.Most Graff is for the art and not towards someone tagging a name on a Highway divider. Thats what people outside of Graffiti culture think its nothing more but little scratches on a train.But there is more then just that theres a whole following towards the art and the culture its been present for years now. If were imprisoning people for writing on walls for 30 years while we have much bigger problems to deal with throughout our country.
I used to be a writer so have more than a passing appreciation of good graff, but the fact of the matter is 99% of it is shit and to that ends is sheer vandalism. Seeing a brand new train with etched tags scrawled into every glass surface makes my blood boil... There isn't an ounce of artistry in it, its about getting 'up' for the sake of it.

Bottom line: Writers don't own the trains they vandalise, and it costs millions every year to clean it up. They impose their 'art' on the travelling public whether they like it or not, its equivalent to me going round their houses and damaging their property and expecting them to pay for it. Its not on in a civilised society.

The ultimate reason why it is inexcusable is the fact that one of my drivers is currently traumatised because he ran two of these scroats over a month ago, and they leave behind 2 devastated families and a fatherless baby. Art indeed...
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Old February 15th, 2007, 05:20 AM   #170
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Well too many it is art and for me I enjoy the colors and what it provides and when you see how hard it is to paint with a spray can. But I understand where you are comming from Tubeman but you do what you gotta do and my friends used to be apart of a crew who did tunnels and they were always are in danger of getting caught as well of something happeing to them and they joined my crew and we dont do trains.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 05:58 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorhoge View Post
Well too many it is art and for me I enjoy the colors and what it provides and when you see how hard it is to paint with a spray can. But I understand where you are comming from Tubeman but you do what you gotta do and my friends used to be apart of a crew who did tunnels and they were always are in danger of getting caught as well of something happeing to them and they joined my crew and we dont do trains.
So why do you have to impose your "art" on others? I don't impose my fist on your face, but maybe thats "art" for me? Or maybe a rock through your window is "art" for me too?

Or what about me kicking you over and spraying your mouth full of paint? Enough color for you?! Cause I definitely consider THAT art!

It's just something to think about. No I don't think violence is the solution, and no I wouldn't do that to you... but it's something to think about. Do you understand where I am coming from?

I don't have a problem with it when you do it inside your own home or on sanctioned property... but not public property.

And you might say, well what about ads? Well yes, they can be annoying. But companies pay big money for those ads... And part of it goes to the gov't if its lets say in the Metro... Graffitti on the other hand... costs money. Which means, you're taking MY money, which could go towards schools, health, etc.

So, you're imposing your "art" on me. And you're taking my money. I am not happy with that.

I hope you see my point of view better.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 10:37 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorhoge View Post
Well too many it is art and for me I enjoy the colors and what it provides and when you see how hard it is to paint with a spray can. But I understand where you are comming from Tubeman but you do what you gotta do and my friends used to be apart of a crew who did tunnels and they were always are in danger of getting caught as well of something happeing to them and they joined my crew and we dont do trains.
That's a little flippant: "You do what you gotta do"... would you say the same about a mugger, or burglar, or murderer? And before you say it, graffiti is not a victimless crime: the people who have to pay through fares or taxes for the cleanup and extra security are the victims, not to mention having to endure every available surface etched / tagged / sprayed.

As I already mentioned, 99% of what passes for graffiti is hastily scrawled or etched tags and to that ends there is no 'colour' involved. I love good graff, and to be honest if all writers did was pieces, even if it was illegally on trains, I wouldn't mind that much. I often see really good pieces on our trains early in the morning as they run from sidings to the main depots for cleaning (the only time you'll see graff running on the Underground), and some of the work is excellent. However, for every good piece which lasts an hour there are 1,000+ shitty tags, this is what the vast majority of the travelling public resents and it most definitely is not art.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #173
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Quote:
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As I already mentioned, 99% of what passes for graffiti is hastily scrawled or etched tags and to that ends there is no 'colour' involved. I love good graff, and to be honest if all writers did was pieces, even if it was illegally on trains, I wouldn't mind that much. I often see really good pieces on our trains early in the morning as they run from sidings to the main depots for cleaning (the only time you'll see graff running on the Underground), and some of the work is excellent. However, for every good piece which lasts an hour there are 1,000+ shitty tags, this is what the vast majority of the travelling public resents and it most definitely is not art.
This is true but I didnt mean that scraticng a window and yes I think that sort of stuff sucks becuase it ruins a nice train however as for more artistic art yes it does look nice on trains.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 03:58 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAKxRUSx View Post
So why do you have to impose your "art" on others? I don't impose my fist on your face, but maybe thats "art" for me? Or maybe a rock through your window is "art" for me too?

Or what about me kicking you over and spraying your mouth full of paint? Enough color for you?! Cause I definitely consider THAT art!

It's just something to think about. No I don't think violence is the solution, and no I wouldn't do that to you... but it's something to think about. Do you understand where I am coming from?

I don't have a problem with it when you do it inside your own home or on sanctioned property... but not public property.

And you might say, well what about ads? Well yes, they can be annoying. But companies pay big money for those ads... And part of it goes to the gov't if its lets say in the Metro... Graffitti on the other hand... costs money. Which means, you're taking MY money, which could go towards schools, health, etc.

So, you're imposing your "art" on me. And you're taking my money. I am not happy with that.

I hope you see my point of view better.
No I really dont see your point of view I really hate your view in fact Im not going to be threatened over the internet becuase thats when myspace comes in as well and thats for little thirteen year olds to argue about uggs.As for what you said about advertisements they dont support schools and health they support themselves when are people going to get that through there heads that only thing corperations do are put there names everywhere and make money for themselves.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 04:17 PM   #175
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LOL I think it was an analogy and not a threat, but I am on your side. Grafitti does have a legit place in society and to be honest i think it generally adds to a city, if its used in the correct places and the artists are mindful of fair play.

It's certainly art but there's alot of toy stuff out there that cannot be classed as anything but mindless scrawl. Throw-ups are mostly about being prolific and sometimes they detract from the surrounding but not all throw-ups are bad, there can be some real style in tags and some real thought in style, performance and letter technique.

Etching is a no no and like some of you, etched bus and train windows make me shitty.

Real quality in some large wildstyle pieces can be mindblowing. I don't think is always need use colour for effect either, plenty of good peices make use of limited colours and build on strong line, technique and 3D work. There is some incredible style, technique and ability shown by some lads out there.

Unfortunately panels and trackside work can dangerous and it does cost the governments money. Sometimes councils and governments would be best to leave some peices alone, buffing only compounds the issue. Sure keep the trains clean , but is there any real need to cleanup all the trackside work. More often than not they improve the environs. The biggest loss however is the lads that dont see the trains coming, and the fall out it creates with families and rail staff it touches. I have friends in RailCorp and I can say I have heard some horrible stories of fatalities here in Sydney.

BTW Sydney spends quite alot on grafitti removal, here we have GTF, which is the grafitti task force. Recently two lads were charged due to video footage contained on youtube and images on their myspace accounts. The GTF here focuses alot of attention on internet research and tag matching.

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Last edited by Avatar; February 15th, 2007 at 05:05 PM.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 05:12 PM   #176
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thats some tight stuff right there Aussies have great art.


SUPPORT GRAFF!!!
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Old February 15th, 2007, 07:35 PM   #177
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No I really dont see your point of view I really hate your view in fact Im not going to be threatened over the internet becuase thats when myspace comes in as well and thats for little thirteen year olds to argue about uggs.As for what you said about advertisements they dont support schools and health they support themselves when are people going to get that through there heads that only thing corperations do are put there names everywhere and make money for themselves.
Quote:
LOL I think it was an analogy and not a threat, but I am on your side.
Yes, it was an analogy. And obviously Taylorhoge doesn't really read my posts. And you obviously don't know how advertisements work. Let me explain it to you.

Lets say the city has a bus system. The buses belong to the government.
A corporation wants to use that space to advertise. So it pays the government (a handsome amount of money, I might add). And the governemnt allows the ad. So the money that the government receives, goes towards helping fund schools, healthcare, etc.

And you still fail to address my point of:
Why do you have to impose this "art" on to others?
Why can't you do in on your own property?
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Old February 15th, 2007, 10:00 PM   #178
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This is getting offtopic already, but I really think that good quality graffiti makes deserted warehouses, for example, prettier, than they are without graffiti... But I definetly don't like graffiti on trains or on other kinds of public transport.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 12:47 AM   #179
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Please note that there are two separate questions that are being discussed here. One is philosophical and the other is legal:

Philosophical Question:
Is graffiti art?


This question gets debated periodically in academic circles. My own humble opinion is that most graffiti could qualify at best as rather bad art. Most transit agency train liveries are much better art. Even most advertisements are better art.

Legal Question:
Is the creation of graffiti a crime that can lead to prosecution with penalties that can include prison time?


On this question, there should be no debate. The answer is “Yes!” I have yet to hear of any case being dismissed because the judge or jury decided that the graffiti was good art.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 02:21 AM   #180
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Quote:
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This is getting offtopic already, but I really think that good quality graffiti makes deserted warehouses, for example, prettier, than they are without graffiti... But I definetly don't like graffiti on trains or on other kinds of public transport.
What are smoking the governemnt doesnt give that money to schools for the most part they dont(larger cites) but most city governemnts keep the money themselves.
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