Park Hill Flats Regeneration (Urban Splash)

[DMT20]

A word of caution though: It wastnt that long ago that we were tearing down thousands of Victorian terraces because they were out of favour, not they are highly saught after. I seriously thing that knocking down park hill would be a mistake and a decision that people would come to regret in 30 years time.

[DMT20]

A word of caution though: It wastnt that long ago that we were tearing down thousands of Victorian terraces because they were out of favour, now they are highly saught after. I seriously thing that knocking down park hill would be a mistake and a decision that people would come to regret in 30 years time.

[Superfly]

Fair point, but what i think is more important is that they are gonna get scubbed up good and proper on the outside, and completely renovated on the inside. The whole concept was originally a bright and bold design, with contempory interiors, space, functionality, security (for the time) and almost everything one would need on their doorstep.

So who cares if, because of the changing times, it didn't work, because the concept still stands, it's what the yuppies want today, so they are simply upgrading the building, but not the reason why it was built.

Like I pointed out on the brutalism thread, if a building of this type is well maintained, and looked after, people will love it, and the building will remain functional and desireable. Need an example?



Le Corbusier's Unite de Habitation, in France (not Volograd!), was the design that inspired Park Hill, today it looks much like the way it did when it was built, in 1946, and remains will liked and a desireable place to live and work in.

Yes, Park Hill looks gash at the moment, but thats because of nearly 50 years of neglect, if you look at the cladding pictures posted earlier you can get a glimpse of the original colours under the filth, they were bright, and it will look good when it gets cleaned.

Believe me, once its been done, many of you will (hopefully) change your minds!

[LINCS OWL]

I watched the Dan Cruikshank programme about architecture. He began by saying something like.....And then in the late fifties came a development which would change the face of British architecture forever. The Sheffield bit lasted a good five minutes or more & showed a lot of old black & white 1960's newsreels about 'streets in the sky' etc & strange-sounding Yorkshire working-class people saying 'Ee 'eck-but it's grand-inside lavvies' type of thing.
I think it was the biggest block of flats in Europe when it was built.
One clip showed an old milk-cart on about floor ten. How did it get up there? Then Dan(he of the Oxford accent, battered straw hat & silk scarf-fame) had a walk on the roof. How did HE get up there? I was hoping we would now see the modern city skyline but instead got Dan's battered wind-swept face surveying the view.
I think it mentioned how the flats dominate the city etc. Interspersed with the old black & white clips were modern colour shots showing how grim most of it(the flats) look now. 1950's dream-turned-1990's nightmare message came across. Fair enough.
What many folk don't know is there was a tall 17 storey tower in the middle which got demolished. This towered over the city-if seen from,say, Fitzalan Square, like Prague or Edinburgh castles tower over their cities.

Zim Flyer-have you ever been to Volgograd? Previously called Stalingrad-the allies would have probably lost the last war but for millions of brave Russians here. The Yanks dont tell you that in their daft war-films. Volgograd has the world's tallest free-standing statue(built on a tall hill so it looks even taller). The communists were actually very good at preserving quality architecture. Visit St Petersburg or Prague & you'll be amazed.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by LINCS OWL

Zim Flyer-have you ever been to Volgograd? Previously called Stalingrad-the allies would have probably lost the last war but for millions of brave Russians here. The Yanks dont tell you that in their daft war-films. Volgograd has the world's tallest free-standing statue(built on a tall hill so it looks even taller). The communists were actually very good at preserving quality architecture. Visit St Petersburg or Prague & you'll be amazed.

The only good communist is a dead communist.

I've seen communists in action and the only reason they preseve places like the Kremlin and other palaces is because they like to live in them, whilst building shite for the workers.

If I had the time or energy I could list thousands of shocking examples of communist architecture. Palace of the Republic anyone

By the way stick your history lesson up your arse. Have I heard of Stalingrad, christ sake where are these newbies coming from.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by DMT20

A word of caution though: It wastnt that long ago that we were tearing down thousands of Victorian terraces because they were out of favour, now they are highly saught after. I seriously thing that knocking down park hill would be a mistake and a decision that people would come to regret in 30 years time.

The difference is that these Victorian buildings with some work and improvements can look great, where as Park Hill Flats could be covered in solar panals and painted in gold and would still look like the monster it is.

Demolish them and do it quick.

[LINCS OWL]

[QUOTE=Zim Flyer]The only good communist is a dead communist.

You've DEFINITELY seen too many daft American war-films. Well-HAVE you heard of Stalingrad?

As for history- you'll carry on making mistakes(architectural or otherwise) in the future if you don't know what happened in the past. As for 'newbie' whatever that is-I lived in Sheffield for 20 years- you've been there just the ONCE? Not good enough to come back, then?

[Zim Flyer]

[QUOTE=LINCS OWL]

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

The only good communist is a dead communist.

You've DEFINITELY seen too many daft American war-films. Well-HAVE you heard of Stalingrad?

As for history- you'll carry on making mistakes(architectural or otherwise) in the future if you don't know what happened in the past. As for 'newbie' whatever that is-I lived in Sheffield for 20 years- you've been there just the ONCE? Not good enough to come back, then?

Nope I've just seen my country destroyed by communists, where as you have just read about how good the Soviet Union is. Reading Communist properaganda and living with the real life nightmare of it is totally different.

[Bladerunner]

Maybe, but we're talking about commie architechture, not politics.

[JOliver]

Personally think Urban Splash bit more than they can chew – and seriously risk losing their glamour image – once they find out that no fancy cladding can help this monstrosity. If anything, I fail to see that much of a difference between “before” and “after”.

[Blabbernsmoke]

Originally Posted by Superfly

Fair point, but what i think is more important is that they are gonna get scubbed up good and proper on the outside, and completely renovated on the inside. The whole concept was originally a bright and bold design, with contempory interiors, space, functionality, security (for the time) and almost everything one would need on their doorstep.

So who cares if, because of the changing times, it didn't work, because the concept still stands, it's what the yuppies want today, so they are simply upgrading the building, but not the reason why it was built.

Like I pointed out on the brutalism thread, if a building of this type is well maintained, and looked after, people will love it, and the building will remain functional and desireable. Need an example?



Le Corbusier's Unite de Habitation, in France (not Volograd!), was the design that inspired Park Hill, today it looks much like the way it did when it was built, in 1946, and remains will liked and a desireable place to live and work in.

Yes, Park Hill looks gash at the moment, but thats because of nearly 50 years of neglect, if you look at the cladding pictures posted earlier you can get a glimpse of the original colours under the filth, they were bright, and it will look good when it gets cleaned.

Believe me, once its been done, many of you will (hopefully) change your minds!

Sorry, but there's no comparison between Park Hill and Unite D'Habitation. I get sick of people saying that. They are totally different, both in scale and quality. Just because they're both made from concrete and have balconies, doesn't make them similar. Park Hill was scrimped on- cheapy, and the architects were no where
near as clever as Le Corbusier.

I agree with J Oliver. Urban Splash have bitten off more than they can chew and risk ruining their reputation on what is a flawed development- the planning and scale is flawed.

[Prestonian]

I actually thought park hill was quite incredible on my first visit to sheffield. The way they sit attop the hill certainly makes for a bold statement. I thought they were really cool and hoped somebody would do something to them. Lets face it, if anyone can make a go of this it is urban splash. They take these old buildings and add a new character to them to improve upon the character that was already there but somehow hidden. The result is often full of character, desirable and actually pretty amazing. What really have you got to lose by letting them have a go at it? Getting rid of unique buildings because they are from a particular era of are of a particular material is poor form IMO. The most interesting places are often the most varied ones.

Good luck to them! I think it looks pretty cool.

[Superfly]

Sorry, but there's no comparison between Park Hill and Unite D'Habitation.

That's fair enough, I wasn't comparing, I was using it as an example of what can and should be done, if the building were that bad, it would be pulled down, if not, rennovated and upgraded. I agree that Le Corbusier was the visionary that Smithsons extrapolated Park Hill from, but you must agree that it was a complete and total departure from anything to do with mass urban living space that had been built in Britain before it, and that is why English Heritage want to preserve it.

Personally think Urban Splash bit more than they can chew – and seriously risk losing their glamour image – once they find out that no fancy cladding can help this monstrosity.

Like I said, their not recladding it, their restoring the original cladding, and much more besides, but I must agree that Park Hill's reputation will most likely hold it back, if not it's location.

But don't forget that Urban Spash have done this before, and are doing it now, and if they didn't think it would work, they really woudn't touch the place with a bargepole!

It's all relative really, the works underway, if it works, it works, if it fails, it fails, either way, good will come of it!

[JOliver]

Well I think all of us will be happy if sceptics like myself will proof wrong, and it will really work out well.

[kids]

[QUOTE=Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by LINCS OWL

Nope I've just seen my country destroyed by communists, where as you have just read about how good the Soviet Union is. Reading Communist properaganda and living with the real life nightmare of it is totally different.

You've seen 'communists'. Real communism is a true and honest prospect. Shame it can't happen.

As for park hill flats. I love them. And what a better developer to have than Urban splash. These guys know what they're doin'.

[dinp]

Hooray - at last some optimism surrounding this project. Was beginning to think I was the only one with any faith around here. Park Hill should be a very attractive place to live when finished.

[liveforever]

'If these guys reckon they can make it look better, then by all means let 'em have a go, 'cos they sure can't make it any worse'. That's the general feeling I'm getting from this thread.....?


Don't get me wrong, I love PHF, but they are f*****g ugly and need a good makeover!!!

[Blabbernsmoke]

Originally Posted by dinp

Park Hill should be a very attractive place to live when finished.

You'll be taking out a mortgage for a flat there then?

[Bladerunner]

Instead of building their new HQ by Redvers House (Howden House?), they should have located the council's housing department out at Park Hill.

I hate to sound snobby, but if Park Hill is to remain, I think the solution lies in the private / luxury sector. Sell the entire estate off to a private developer, rehouse those unwilling to pay high rents, and completely renovate the complex with leisure facilities, carpets, security etc. Then let the apartments out for market prices.

[dinp]

Originally Posted by Blabbernsmoke

You'll be taking out a mortgage for a flat there then?

No, but not because I dont like it, I just wont be in Sheffield.