Doncaster Sheffield International Airport (DSA)

[pug]

Except definately Thomsonfly, re the first post on this page.

They havent expanded, in fact they've retracted recently, the new routes are just a rejigging of the timetable as the airport cannot provide for the higher frequency routes.

Ryanairs remaining routes have not been put on sale for the winter from DSA, they are either delayed or not going ahead at all. Like it or not LBA does have an effect on DSA, Ryanair will now not base there.. You've got to look at who there is left:

Jet2- Heavy presence at Leeds

Easyjet- Tried Geneva and failed to get enough support, also based at EMA and MAN

BMIBaby- Already Peel are not in the good books, with their bases at EMA and MAN still wouldnt be likely anyway

FLYBe- Slight chance of them offering something though they have also suggested a plan to make a large base at LBA.

Its unfortunately a sad pattern which could have all been avoided had the correct risk analysis been done, rather than just political favours....

[lewisskinner]

Originally Posted by muddycoffee

If I lived in the north of Sheffield then Leeds could be on my radar. But having tried it once I found it far too remote and distant.

Depends on where. I'm in Hillsborough, and I tend to chose MAN, partly due to the proximity of the Woodhead Pass to my house, although mainly because I fly to Cyprus most frequently to visit my parent, and LBA just isn't practial. Shame all the flights land after midnight though - we have to drive.

Originally Posted by woodhousen

is east midalnds that easy to get to, esp without a car?

There's now a rail station opened on the Midland Mainline from Sheffield. Journey times are usually just over an hour, including a change at Derby, but there are some trains at around 45 minutes direct.

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

Perhaps the fact that Leeds is on the north side of the city and therefore harder to get to from South Yorkshire will be a saving grace for Doncaster. I think DSA would be more worried if Leeds was on the south side and easily accessible from South Yorkshire.

The plans for improved transport links to Leeds though could put an end to that theory though. At the moment I'd say any expansion at East Midlands and Manchester are probably more of a threat to Doncaster than expansion at Leeds.

Agreed, especially as EMA is owned by MAN, so the two can (and will?) collaborate to DSA's disadvantage if possible. I'm not saying that this is unfair - in fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't!

[cadburyflake]

Originally Posted by pug

They havent expanded, in fact they've retracted recently, the new routes are just a rejigging of the timetable as the airport cannot provide for the higher frequency routes.

Not really, Thomson are just showing simple economics. The Euro is currently rather weak (or is it the pound? Anyway, you won't get many Euro's for your Pound!), so they've added flights to Turkey and Egypt who are out of the EuroZone, where more people are tending to go now. When the Pound becomes stronger again (or, if we switch to the Euro), I expect more Spanish/Euro services to return. Even Manchester only has four (Thomson) flights a week to Alicante (for example) this summer, down from multiple-daily last summer.

[muddycoffee]

Cadburyflake is right about the currency issue. I have been to southern spain this year and they really are suffering from a lack of tourists, there are lots of bars and resteraunts which are out of business and boarded up. Meanwhile familes are heading to places like bulgaria where they are still getting plenty of currency for their money out of the euro zone.

[TakeMeHigher]

Am I correct in thinking that Cargo Handling Centre have now pulled out of the airport?

If so it's an odd turn of events when we consider that Peel turned down Classic Flight when they wanted to relocate there from Coventry because "the airport needed the hanger space for expanded cargo operations". A cynic (like me) might think that it looks like Peel aren't very interested in aviation businesses, especially if they want a lease that needs a runway.

It smells very similar to the way that they ran down flying operations at Sheffield.

[Halfy]

Originally Posted by TakeMeHigher

Am I correct in thinking that Cargo Handling Centre have now pulled out of the airport?

If so it's an odd turn of events when we consider that Peel turned down Classic Flight when they wanted to relocate there from Coventry because "the airport needed the hanger space for expanded cargo operations". A cynic (like me) might think that it looks like Peel aren't very interested in aviation businesses, especially if they want a lease that needs a runway.

It smells very similar to the way that they ran down flying operations at Sheffield.

Is DSA still losing money hand-over-fist?

[pug]

Is DSA still losing money hand-over-fist?

They appear to have cut some overheads such as staff cuts etc but it will likely have minimal effect on the £1million or so it was losing each month. Cutbacks by the airlines will seriously affect the revenue streams so expect heavier losses in the winter when Thomsonfly will have only one aircraft based at the airport. Looks as though Ryanair have dropped their winter flights also as they are still not on sale.

Perhaps the airport will have to cut its operating hours to stemm more losses? This would make it even harder to attract airline services however...

[wiggleyleeds]

Originally Posted by muddycoffee

I don't know. I live in south sheffield and driving to and from east midlands in a car is by far the quickest airport for me, can be there in as little as 35 minutes door to door.

Driving to manchester takes between 90mins to 2.5 hours depending upon the traffic, although 2 hours is more normal. But the real problem with manchester is when you are tired after a busy holiday and possibly a long journey home with less sleep than normal, driving the over the bendy and trecherous snake pass is dangerous and tiring especially I have found in the middle of the night. It is far safer to drive for 18 minutes straight up the M1 from East midlands.
Whenever possible I use the train to Manchester airport, but for a long weekend it is far cheaper to drive and park. Also the trains do not run all night so you have to be very sure that the departure and arrival times are well before midnight.

Driving to Leeds is something I have done once, and I have been to Leeds city many times. The airport is past Leeds and in the countryside further north. I was shocked how far it was and how long it took to get there. The roads are poor between the motorway and the airport and the morning traffic added considerable duration to the journey.

I have driven to DSA many times but never flown myself from there. I have taken relatives to and from flights as well as visited the airport to have a look and take photos.
Out of rush hour it is possible for me to get there in 40 or 50 minutes at a push. But when the FARRS road is built it will take about 30.
One of the main problems is that you have to go via bawtry road which is often crawling bumper to bumper at commuting times, and when the Doncaster Dome or Local sports ( Racecourse, Football etc.. ) is on.

So from Woodseats, the preference is

1 East Midlands
2 DSA
3 Manchester
4 Birmingham
5 Liverpool
6 Leeds

I dont get how you would want to drive for aimlessly on a motorway for a whole extra 40 mninutes more get to liverpool as opposed to LBA

Also, I dont understand the thing about poor roads.. you come of the motorway, m621 junction 1, , and its a dual carriage all the way up to the airport (well up to 5 minutes drive away from the airport)

You'd rather travel further miles along a long tiring and dangerous single carriageway to manchester aiport. *confused* (more miles, longer travel time, poorer roads)

on google maps:

norton - LBIA = 1 hour 15 mins (51miles)
norton - Manchester = 1 hours 20 mins (48 miles)
norton - birmingham = 1 hour 31 mins (81miles)
norton - Liverpool = 1 hour 52 minutes (83 miles)

[SmartCity]

Very well put wiggleyleeds plus, I presume you're talking about the 'snake pass', a notorious road which has killed many people over the years and it's usually the first road to be closed because of winter snow and ice.

[TakeMeHigher]

Originally Posted by pug

They appear to have cut some overheads such as staff cuts etc but it will likely have minimal effect on the £1million or so it was losing each month. Cutbacks by the airlines will seriously affect the revenue streams so expect heavier losses in the winter when Thomsonfly will have only one aircraft based at the airport. Looks as though Ryanair have dropped their winter flights also as they are still not on sale.

Perhaps the airport will have to cut its operating hours to stemm more losses? This would make it even harder to attract airline services however...

I'd be very interested to see the 'loss' broken down. I'd also be interested in how many millions the business park and other commercial developments are making for Peel.

From memory, Sheffield City and the land that it sat on made around £4m profit in the year that it was closed due to being 'financially unviable'.

[pug]

TakeMeHigher... I think the rasionable ones among us have always known what a mistake the closure of SZD was.... Just a shame no one with any back bone decided to tackle Peel over the decision.

Remember the public enquiry? Even then the main point was raised that DSA would always struggle to attract traffic. The bulls@*t about relieving London airports and the fact that most of the people in Doncaster supported it was the reason for its go-ahead. That is all....

Good luck with getting the motorway link. It will be a further tragedy if they manage to get it.

[pug]

http://www.thestar.co.uk/doncaster/A...hts.5578992.jp

Now official then.

[TakeMeHigher]

Sad but predictable. Far from being 'vital' it would now be a disgrace if public money was spent on a link road. Surely it is time to accept the inevitable and let Peel get on with a business park and the enabling works / quarry without the expensive pretence of running an airport?

[cadburyflake]

Originally Posted by TakeMeHigher

Far from being 'vital' it would now be a disgrace if public money was spent on a link road.

I think it was a disgrace that my public money was spent on Supertram, but that's for another discussion. I think the phrase "you have to spend money to make money" comes in here. People complain there aren't enough passengers to build a link road, yet other people could say there aren't enough passengers because there ISN'T a link road. Which would you choose? Airports will only attract airlines if the ground transportation network is sufficient. The link road will also greatly benefit the South-Eastern communities of Doncaster whose only option at the moment to get on the M18 is to go via Lakeside which can be a bit of a pain, and will also shorten the distance between areas such as Rossington and Balby.

Regarding Ryanair pulling out, I think the key phrase is "for the winter" - they intend to resume their flights in May (generally when the summer starts in aviation terms) and who knows, they may even announce extra routes when they "re-announce" Girona and Alicante.

[wiggleyleeds]

I think the lack of better transport links are a red herring to be fair. Even MAN, with its excellent transport links and a 24h rail link that goes right into the terminal, about 85% of passengers arrive by car !

[pug]

Airports must prove demand before such expense is put onto the public. Look at LBA for instance, it has managed to grow to the size it has with far less than adequate road links and only now is this being sorted, at the expense of Bridgepoint.

Airlines go where they know there are people who will fill their aircraft. Road connections are not on top of the pile.

Same was said for the CatIII Ils and that has done very little except maybe secure a few diversion contracts.

I think things need to be put into perspective here. Its bad enough Peel wasting money on this white elephant (with some public grants also) but to dip into public money for this scheme when there are far more pressing issues in Yorkshire as regards transport infrastructure which need sorting out then it would be a farce to allow this permission. All it will do is add value to the airport estate and to Peel back pockets why do you think there is all this spin about infrastructure holding back growth?

[Leeds No.1]

I don't think a link road is the most needed thing, more a junction from Bawtry Road onto the M18. It's ridiculous that you have to come off the motorway and go through Doncaster to get to Robin Hood when the road to the airport goes right over the M18.

I know that it's in a trench so significant landscape changes would be needed, but I think it would be for the benefit of the whole area, not ust for the airport.

[Superfly]

Although that seems the most sensible and useful option, and the one most Doncastrians would've liked to have seen, the report came back that it would be a fair bit more costly than building the road parallel to the M18 from J3 instead.

What some of you are forgetting is that LBA's road links were adequate initially, and it's now with the heavily increased traffic that has caused a need for them to be improved. DSA's road links, in contrast, have never been adequate. In any case, a business park/quarry would need these improved road links to make themselves equally viable.

[TakeMeHigher]

The existing quarry at the end of the runway manages ok without a link road.

[muddycoffee]

Originally Posted by wiggleyleeds

I think the lack of better transport links are a red herring to be fair. Even MAN, with its excellent transport links and a 24h rail link that goes right into the terminal, about 85% of passengers arrive by car !

yes but there are no trains at night, and it is far cheaper to drive and park in an airpark if you are travelling for less than a week.
I much prefer to use the train, but most of the time it is too expensive or not an option and if the return flight is delayed past the evening you are stuffed.

The other thing to bear in mind is that families don't like to travel by train as all the luggage, and journey to the home train station is a right hassle and much more stressful, it is much easier for them to get their children and all their bags and pushchairs into the car and go directly from their front door to the airport.