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View Poll Results: Your favorite?
Ernst Happel Stadion, Wien 54 18.56%
Sankt Jakob Park, Basel 81 27.84%
Wörthersee Arena, Klagenfurt 62 21.31%
Tivoli Stadion, Innsbruck 12 4.12%
Stade de Genève, Genève 13 4.47%
Stade de Suisse Wankdorf, Bern 37 12.71%
Stadion Salzburg, Salzburg 9 3.09%
Letzigrund, Zurich 23 7.90%
Voters: 291. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 29th, 2008, 05:14 PM   #381
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ugly and backward stadium designs
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Old February 29th, 2008, 06:14 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aachen View Post
These stadiums are a shame for switzlerland ans austria. I don't want to mention euro 04, it was great. But after euro 2000 this one will be another tournament with bad stadiums. Do they have money problems??


If i told this i would be killed!!!
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Old February 29th, 2008, 08:09 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aachen View Post
These stadiums are a shame for switzlerland ans austria. I don't want to mention euro 04, it was great. But after euro 2000 this one will be another tournament with bad stadiums. Do they have money problems??
Better stadiums we have, than Aachen has one, thats clear...
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Old February 29th, 2008, 10:07 PM   #384
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I think the stadiums are ok. They're certainly not breathtaking, but what did you expect? Austria simply doesn't need half a dozen 40,000 seaters (and neither does Switzerland).
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:25 AM   #385
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Yeah there not wonderful but they do the job and won't be white elephants afterwards.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 09:33 AM   #386
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Regarding that all Swiss stadiums (except the Zurich one) were not specially created for the EURO08, they are really ok. Already before the decision to hold the event in A and CH in 2002, Basel was already built (30`000), Geneva on construction and Berne in final plannings to start the building.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:12 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
Regarding that all Swiss stadiums (except the Zurich one) were not specially created for the EURO08, they are really ok. Already before the decision to hold the event in A and CH in 2002, Basel was already built (30`000), Geneva on construction and Berne in final plannings to start the building.
The Zurich one was also not specially built for Euro 08. It was only realised quicker than initially planned because of it. Without Euro, the stadium would have been finished 1-2 years later.

The initiative to rebuild Letzigrund came from the organisers of the "World Class Zurich" athletics meeting in the end of the 90-ies, because they were unsatisfied with the space and facilities they could offer for their athletes. The city presented then together with the involved clubs and other private parties the concept of rebuilding both Letzigrund & Hardturm. A few years later, Switzerland&Austria got the bid for Euro 08. After a while, it became clear, that it would get difficult to realise the private Hardturm project in time. So, the communal project Letzigrund, which was initially supposed to be realised after Hardturm, was put on the fast track for Euro 08.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 02:42 PM   #388
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The synthetic turf in Stade de Suisse in Bern has been removed and is currently replaced by natural turf for EURO 2008. At European Championships, synthetic turf is not allowed. After the tournament, the synthetic turf will be put back in its place again.



The home team BSC Young Boys is currently 2nd in the championship, 3 points behind Basel. They will play the final 4 home games on (unusual for them) natural turf, and they pray that this will not affect on their championship ambitions.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 03:05 PM   #389
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I think stadiums looks great, but little bit old i don't know why. But after European champion these countrys stadiums will be better i think because they country budget will grow. This YB stadium looks great i hope we will see this kind stadium in kosovo some day.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 03:55 PM   #390
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I dont think the Swiss or Austrians need additional money. These stadiums are actually growing on me. They look slightly understated but that makes them look almost more expensive.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 06:46 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by G.C.F View Post
But after European champion these countrys stadiums will be better i think because they country budget will grow.
It's very unlikely that the overall federal tax income will rise as a result of the European Championship, and if, for sure not in any considerable way.

Even more, all stadiums dedicated to professional sports/events are privately financed in Switzerland. The state usually supports only buildings dedicated to public leisure sports.

Also, the 4 biggest cities have new/renovated stadiums now. The only gap is still a new pure football stadium in Zurich. Apart from that, there will be no new football stadium of this size built anymore in Switzerland within the next at least 20 or so years....

There is still potential for some new arenas (hockey etc.) and a few smaller-sized football stadiums.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 08:24 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by railcity View Post
The synthetic turf in Stade de Suisse in Bern has been removed and is currently replaced by natural turf for EURO 2008. At European Championships, synthetic turf is not allowed. After the tournament, the synthetic turf will be put back in its place again.



The home team BSC Young Boys is currently 2nd in the championship, 3 points behind Basel. They will play the final 4 home games on (unusual for them) natural turf, and they pray that this will not affect on their championship ambitions.
It may be difficult for me to grasp this and I apologise in advance but why would a professional footballer who gets paid ludicrous money even in switzerland to play football on any safe surface have to pray that playing on a natural surface that they play on every week, in training and at at other venues would affect their performance.
So if ive got it right on the one hand supporters of plastic surfaces say they are soooo good cos they are the same as natural pitches and there charachteristics are the same, yet now they are playing on a natural surface its soooo different
Well are they the same or different? The fact is they are totally different!
But of course got to look for those excuses somewhere if they lose a game so better get them in while they can!
Must stop talking about plastic or I might just have to find a tall building and...
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Old March 30th, 2008, 03:35 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by veronika View Post
It may be difficult for me to grasp this and I apologise in advance but why would a professional footballer who gets paid ludicrous money even in switzerland to play football on any safe surface have to pray that playing on a natural surface that they play on every week, in training and at at other venues would affect their performance.
So if ive got it right on the one hand supporters of plastic surfaces say they are soooo good cos they are the same as natural pitches and there charachteristics are the same, yet now they are playing on a natural surface its soooo different
Well are they the same or different? The fact is they are totally different!
But of course got to look for those excuses somewhere if they lose a game so better get them in while they can!
As you say yourself - they are different! So, why shouldn't it matter then? Who exactly says they are the same? I never heard anybody saying this.

First of all, I have to mention that the sentence about praying is MY sentence - it is not the words of the players of YB.

Having said this, you seem to mix up performance in the form of input vs. performance as output. Of course, players should always play "the best they can" (input). Nevertheless, even if a team puts in 100%, it's possible that they lose games - because there is another team on the field which also tries its best.

As you mention yourself, synthetic and natural turf ARE different, so it DOES have an impact on the performance in the sense of OUTPUT. It's also what I observe with the "synthetic teams" I know (Young Boys, Xamax, RB Salzburg). At home, they mostly have above-average results and at the same time away below-average. These teams play on both surfaces, also in their trainings, so they are not specialised on any of it and from week to week have to change from one surface to the other and back. The other teams, at the same time, are still specialists on natural surface, but struggle to play successfully on synthetic turf.

In general, the games on synthetic turf seem to be faster and more attractive. It's more easy for the players to play quickly and precisely. And Young Boys have scored by far the most goals of the League this season. Also the players, from what I've heard, like very much to play on synthetic surface. The only big drawback for them is, that it seems to be less healthy in the long-term (eg. conc. joints).
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Old March 30th, 2008, 10:13 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by railcity View Post
As you say yourself - they are different! So, why shouldn't it matter then? Who exactly says they are the same? I never heard anybody saying this.

First of all, I have to mention that the sentence about praying is MY sentence - it is not the words of the players of YB.

Having said this, you seem to mix up performance in the form of input vs. performance as output. Of course, players should always play "the best they can" (input). Nevertheless, even if a team puts in 100%, it's possible that they lose games - because there is another team on the field which also tries its best.

As you mention yourself, synthetic and natural turf ARE different, so it DOES have an impact on the performance in the sense of OUTPUT. It's also what I observe with the "synthetic teams" I know (Young Boys, Xamax, RB Salzburg). At home, they mostly have above-average results and at the same time away below-average. These teams play on both surfaces, also in their trainings, so they are not specialised on any of it and from week to week have to change from one surface to the other and back. The other teams, at the same time, are still specialists on natural surface, but struggle to play successfully on synthetic turf.

In general, the games on synthetic turf seem to be faster and more attractive. It's more easy for the players to play quickly and precisely. And Young Boys have scored by far the most goals of the League this season. Also the players, from what I've heard, like very much to play on synthetic surface. The only big drawback for them is, that it seems to be less healthy in the long-term (eg. conc. joints).
Well, I am not going to de-rail this thread but I am afraid I strongly disagree and like yourself I have first hand experience of this. I find your comments fair and balanced but not factual. Unfortunately I cannot give you factual comment either.
The only thing I can tell you is opinion is very divided but not 50-50. The opinion (of prof players) is still very much in favour of a natural surface provided its in good condition, this is a fact from various surveys carried out.
The main reason for my sadness and the reason I replied was the way you used the term 'pray' as if a change of surface will be responsible if the club do not get good results. Firstly this is virtually impossible to state there are far too many variants in football that affect player performance not just a surface I am sure you agree at least on this point, and secondly like I said I hate it when people try to blame pitches for results-both teams play on same pitch-you can certainly blame a pitch for a low quality game if its a poor pitch for example but never a final result of a match. Can you see the logic in that?
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Old March 30th, 2008, 11:12 AM   #395
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The only thing I can tell you is opinion is very divided but not 50-50. The opinion (of prof players) is still very much in favour of a natural surface provided its in good condition, this is a fact from various surveys carried out.
Maybe. Probably it's also different from country to country. I have not seen any surveys, only a few interviews with players here in Switzerland (eg. right away after a game coming from the pitch) and they were (to my own suprise) predominantly positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by veronika View Post
The main reason for my sadness and the reason I replied was the way you used the term 'pray' as if a change of surface will be responsible if the club do not get good results. Firstly this is virtually impossible to state there are far too many variants in football that affect player performance not just a surface I am sure you agree at least on this point,
Sure. But this is a stadium forum, so that's why I am not talking about all the other factors, but focussing on the ones connected with the stadium infrastructure which includes the pitch. This is why we are discussing here in an international forum after all. To exchange experiences about steepness of stands, arena/box form, number of tiers, ...and also the pitch.

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Originally Posted by veronika View Post
and secondly like I said I hate it when people try to blame pitches for results-both teams play on same pitch-you can certainly blame a pitch for a low quality game if its a poor pitch for example but never a final result of a match. Can you see the logic in that?
I am sorry to disappoint you, but I keep my opinion in this point. Both teams play on the same pitch, but they are not equally experienced with it. There is no excuse for not trying as hard as possible, but in an ever faster game, automatisms play an important role, and they are different on the various kind of pitches. As I said, I base this opinion on following the three teams YB, Xamax and RB and it's not the players statements, but my observation and also the observation of football experts.

There are Football specialists, Futsal specialists, Beach Soccer specialists. Football on a synthetic pitch gets a little bit closer to Futsal.

Even in hockey, a top NHL player sometimes doesn't play well in Europe, and vice versa - and the difference in this case is not even the material of the playground, but "just" the size of the rink.

Arsenal has for many years played exceptionally well in home games at Highbury, because they had an extraordinary small pitch and could deal with these conditions better than any other team.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 12:56 AM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railcity View Post
Maybe. Probably it's also different from country to country. I have not seen any surveys, only a few interviews with players here in Switzerland (eg. right away after a game coming from the pitch) and they were (to my own suprise) predominantly positive.



Sure. But this is a stadium forum, so that's why I am not talking about all the other factors, but focussing on the ones connected with the stadium infrastructure which includes the pitch. This is why we are discussing here in an international forum after all. To exchange experiences about steepness of stands, arena/box form, number of tiers, ...and also the pitch.



I am sorry to disappoint you, but I keep my opinion in this point. Both teams play on the same pitch, but they are not equally experienced with it. There is no excuse for not trying as hard as possible, but in an ever faster game, automatisms play an important role, and they are different on the various kind of pitches. As I said, I base this opinion on following the three teams YB, Xamax and RB and it's not the players statements, but my observation and also the observation of football experts.

There are Football specialists, Futsal specialists, Beach Soccer specialists. Football on a synthetic pitch gets a little bit closer to Futsal.

Even in hockey, a top NHL player sometimes doesn't play well in Europe, and vice versa - and the difference in this case is not even the material of the playground, but "just" the size of the rink.

Arsenal has for many years played exceptionally well in home games at Highbury, because they had an extraordinary small pitch and could deal with these conditions better than any other team.
Firstly about Arsenal you have to 100% retract that statement and here is why-I worked there on the pitch so I think I know what size it was! It was exactly the size for International football 105m x 68m. This is the biggest myth about Arsenals small pitch and I have corrected about a thousand or more people on this. Its the perception from tv and other factors that made you think its small, just like everyone thought that the old Wembley was a big pitch, it was also a standard 105x68. I should know I measured and marked both these pitches in my time!

Regarding difference in pitches-all pitches even artificial from exact same manufacturer on exact same sub base etc will have idiosycrasies (spelling?) as you pointed out so the home team always has home advantage even they change their pitch because they get to use it more etc so I still dont understand why there title hopes are affected by a change of surface and if they thought that they could have installed it later regardless of what uefa say, again I know this, its not just speculation as I was going to be involved in this tournament but turned it down in favour of champions league final and beijing olympics-and also because England failed to qualify or beijing would have got the chop for sure
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Old March 31st, 2008, 01:34 AM   #397
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Regarding difference in pitches-all pitches even artificial from exact same manufacturer on exact same sub base etc will have idiosycrasies (spelling?) as you pointed out so the home team always has home advantage even they change their pitch because they get to use it more etc
well, sure, there are always differences, but synthetic to grass is a bigger difference than some grass vs. another kind of grass

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so I still dont understand why there title hopes are affected by a change of surface and if they thought that they could have installed it later regardless of what uefa say,
once more and for all: THEY didn't think or say anything, nobody of YB complained and nobody is literally praying as far as I know - it was MY, I repeat: MY sentence and MY thoughts....understood?

btw. - while we are discussing, today, they won the Away-game against Thun and are now the new leader of the championship for the first time since 2.5 years....
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Old March 31st, 2008, 02:00 AM   #398
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A bit off-topic, but anyway:

synthetic and natural pitches are different. If you ever played on both surfaces, you will confirm this. The moves on the synthetic turf are different, more intense to the knees and ankles and the ball behaves completely differently, it jumps differently, and the contact of the ball to the foot is a different one, because of the rubber granules that are spread on the pitch. when the surface is wet or frozen the game is a lot faster than on natural surface.

Also, funnily, although i had several serious knee injuries and surgeries, on the modern synthetic turf i hardly get any knee ache, but therefore muscles feel a lot more tired after 90 minutes of play.

IMHO there´s no better soccer pitch than a nice and plane natural grass pitch.

BTW I heard Klagenfurt EURO2008 Stadium will also get a synthetic pitch after the EURO.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 02:19 AM   #399
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well, sure, there are always differences, but synthetic to grass is a bigger difference than some grass vs. another kind of grass



once more and for all: THEY didn't think or say anything, nobody of YB complained and nobody is literally praying as far as I know - it was MY, I repeat: MY sentence and MY thoughts....understood?

btw. - while we are discussing, today, they won the Away-game against Thun and are now the new leader of the championship for the first time since 2.5 years....
I accept and understand they were your comments. Do you still stand by the statement about Arsenal pitch size?
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Old March 31st, 2008, 11:05 AM   #400
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I accept and understand they were your comments. Do you still stand by the statement about Arsenal pitch size?
Well, I would like to believe you, but also wikipedia and Arsenal homepage support the opinion that the pitch was smaller (especially shorter).

wikipedia:
"Arsenal Stadium was well known for its very small immaculately-kept pitch, which measured only 109×73 yards (100×67 metres)."

arsenal.com:
Q) I know the pitch is bigger at Emirates Stadium, but how much bigger is it than Highbury, and is it now the biggest in the Premiership?
A) The pitch at Emirates Stadium is 105 metres long by 68 metres wide. The old playing surface at Highbury was 100 metres by 66.7 metres. 105m x 68m is the ‘standard’ UEFA size for a playing surface, Arsenal now has the joint biggest pitch in the Premier League.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_Stadium
http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?t...article=411451
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