daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas

Stadiums and Sport Arenas » Completed | Under Construction | Proposed | Demolished



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Your favorite?
Ernst Happel Stadion, Wien 54 18.56%
Sankt Jakob Park, Basel 81 27.84%
Wörthersee Arena, Klagenfurt 62 21.31%
Tivoli Stadion, Innsbruck 12 4.12%
Stade de Genève, Genève 13 4.47%
Stade de Suisse Wankdorf, Bern 37 12.71%
Stadion Salzburg, Salzburg 9 3.09%
Letzigrund, Zurich 23 7.90%
Voters: 291. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 15th, 2008, 12:04 PM   #501
railcity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,494
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sercan.de View Post
Portugal has got the big 3
Turkey and England the big 4
And Switzerland? 5?
Grasshoppers
Basel
FC Zürich
Young Boys
Servette

?
Switzerland doesn't have any "big something". Teams are popular mainly in their city/region. There are no real nationwide popular clubs like in Portugal or Turkey.

Grasshoppers and Servette have gained an impressive number of titles, but that doesn't make them more popular than other teams - Servette is even playing only in the 2nd Division right now. Zurich and Geneva are cities with a big population turnover every year - the percentage of locally-born inhabitants is quite small which doesn't make it easier for the football teams to build a steady fan base. In the all-time statistics it looks like this: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesz/zwitalltime.html

The "big 4" in England is not the same like in Portugal, Turkey and Greece. It's just a phenomenon of the last few years only, connected also to a certain self-sustaining dynamic by repeated Champions League participations, but it can change again.

@Qaabus: you are right in the sense that in a league with 10 teams in Portugal, the 3 top teams would have more weight in calculating the average attendance. On the other hand, anyway, starting from team nr.6 downwards, the average attendance is higher in Switzerland.

So, if one sees only the big derbies in a country like Portugal, one could draw the conclusion that popularity of football in Portugal is far ahead of Swiss football. But if one looks more closely and sees the average League games, then the picture looks quite different. Plus the most important league games in Switzerland have 30'000-40'000 spectators which is not the level like in some other countries, but also not bad. Switzerland is a decentralised country, not only politically with 26 self-sustaining states/cantons, but also in football.
railcity no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 15th, 2008, 01:09 PM   #502
Quintana
Registered Abuser
 
Quintana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 美好的码头
Posts: 4,316
Likes (Received): 1158

I might be one of the few but I really like the stadiums that are being used. Sure, they are relatively small but so what? It is not like it matters a lot whether a place holds 50 or 30k. The chances of getting a ticket are still slim to none. In the end, no team ends up with a stadium that is way to big (Braga, Faro or Aveiro anyone?).

Six of the eight (Basel, Bern, Geneva, Innsbruck, Klagenfurt and Salzburg) are real football stadiums with steep stands close to the pitch. Vienna and Zurich are athletic stadiums but temporary seating has closed the distance to the pitch as much as possible and both stadiums can hardly be called ugly or unsuited.
Quintana no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 01:30 PM   #503
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,660

I agree. The stadiums in Klagenfurt and Innsbruck look a bit wonky due to the single smaller stand but overall they look quite nice, much better than Nuremberg and Stuttgart for example.
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 03:15 PM   #504
mavn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 180
Likes (Received): 0

Comparing these stadiums to Portugal is unfair.

Portugal should never have hosted a European championship in the first place. Before the EU extension to the east, Portugal was by far the poorest country in the EU. If you compare the average standard of living between Portugal (apart from the 2 big cities) and the Northern eu countries the difference is huge... They're sort of a third-world country by EU standards. They probably used the EU subsidies that they get for being a poor country to build all these lovely, empty stadiums...

Hosting the Euro's is in fact a statement for that since they build 9 stadiums of which 6 are only filled for 10% when the home team plays there... Thats third world country politics in a nutshell. Prestige before people... The money that they've spend on those stadiums could have been given to the normal people. Farmers could have been given a tractor. Instead of them still ploughing the field with an ox...

Don't get me wrong, the stadiums in Portugal are wonderful. I'm just a bit sad that Uefa awarded the tournament to a country that doesn't deserve and without eu subsidies can't afford it. And to think they even build 1 more than required... Money wasted... And now they're even thinking of hosting a WC... Ridiculous!!!

Switzerland and Austria have build things they need and although the stadiums aren't huge, they are all nice in their own way.

Last edited by mavn; June 15th, 2008 at 03:27 PM.
mavn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 05:35 PM   #505
VelesHomais
Registered User
 
VelesHomais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,962
Likes (Received): 5029

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavn View Post
Comparing these stadiums to Portugal is unfair.

Portugal should never have hosted a European championship in the first place. Before the EU extension to the east, Portugal was by far the poorest country in the EU. If you compare the average standard of living between Portugal (apart from the 2 big cities) and the Northern eu countries the difference is huge... They're sort of a third-world country by EU standards. They probably used the EU subsidies that they get for being a poor country to build all these lovely, empty stadiums...

Hosting the Euro's is in fact a statement for that since they build 9 stadiums of which 6 are only filled for 10% when the home team plays there... Thats third world country politics in a nutshell. Prestige before people... The money that they've spend on those stadiums could have been given to the normal people. Farmers could have been given a tractor. Instead of them still ploughing the field with an ox...

Don't get me wrong, the stadiums in Portugal are wonderful. I'm just a bit sad that Uefa awarded the tournament to a country that doesn't deserve and without eu subsidies can't afford it. And to think they even build 1 more than required... Money wasted... And now they're even thinking of hosting a WC... Ridiculous!!!

Switzerland and Austria have build things they need and although the stadiums aren't huge, they are all nice in their own way.
Don't worry, we can all read between the lines that you sincerely hate Portugal.
__________________
Операція И - 19.3.15
VelesHomais no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 05:59 PM   #506
dudu24
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Croatia
Posts: 1,224
Likes (Received): 0

That was indeed one dumb post.
dudu24 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 06:05 PM   #507
Carrerra
Registered User
 
Carrerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pohang
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 22

dudu24, maybe dudu in your ID is the Brazilian born Croatian forward who got serious ankle injury in an EPL game?
Carrerra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 06:17 PM   #508
mavn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 180
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burislav View Post
Don't worry, we can all read between the lines that you sincerely hate Portugal.
On the contrary. I've been there on holiday a few times. Lovely country, lovely people. I don't really like there national team though... I'll give you that.

I might have exaggerated a bit, but

1. they are a very poor country within a EU context
2. More than half of the 30000 capacity stadiums are filled with 1 to 5 thousand people for the average league match.

These are 2 measurable facts that don't really align with hosting a EC. Whether anyone likes it or not...

Again, I don't hate Portugal, I just think they should never have hosted a EC for those reasons.
mavn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 06:29 PM   #509
dudu24
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Croatia
Posts: 1,224
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrerra View Post
dudu24, maybe dudu in your ID is the Brazilian born Croatian forward who got serious ankle injury in an EPL game?
Correct, he also used to be no24 in Dinamo
dudu24 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 06:31 PM   #510
dudu24
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Croatia
Posts: 1,224
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavn View Post
On the contrary. I've been there on holiday a few times. Lovely country, lovely people. I don't really like there national team though... I'll give you that.

I might have exaggerated a bit, but

1. they are a very poor country within a EU context
2. More than half of the 30000 capacity stadiums are filled with 1 to 5 thousand people for the average league match.

These are 2 measurable facts that don't really align with hosting a EC. Whether anyone likes it or not...

Again, I don't hate Portugal, I just think they should never have hosted a EC for those reasons.
Those things you said are a perfect reason to give someone Euro. To improve Economy and improve standard of football infrastructure and infrastructure in general. And Portugal didn't loose nothing from it, on contrary it gained far more (earned, if you want).
dudu24 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 06:42 PM   #511
Mo Rush
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 28,964
Likes (Received): 74

Quote:
Originally Posted by dudu24 View Post
Those things you said are a perfect reason to give someone Euro. To improve Economy and improve standard of football infrastructure and infrastructure in general. And Portugal didn't loose nothing from it, on contrary it gained far more (earned, if you want).
uhm ok.
Mo Rush no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #512
dudu24
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Croatia
Posts: 1,224
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
uhm ok.
Same reason why South Africa got it.. let's not kid ourself.
dudu24 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #513
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,660

Quote:
Originally Posted by dudu24 View Post
Those things you said are a perfect reason to give someone Euro. To improve Economy and improve standard of football infrastructure and infrastructure in general. And Portugal didn't loose nothing from it, on contrary it gained far more (earned, if you want).
I doubt the Euro really had a noticeable impact on Portugal's economy. I don't really get your point that they gained anything either. What's the point in building white elephants all over the country when the money could be used for more useful purposes (general infrastructure etc...same thing with South Africa). Building a 30,000 seater for a team that draws an average of 3,000 spectators is pointless and downright dumb.
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 07:50 PM   #514
michał_
Registered User
 
michał_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Krk | Stw
Posts: 1,634
Likes (Received): 71

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavn View Post

I might have exaggerated a bit, but

1. they are a very poor country within a EU context
2. More than half of the 30000 capacity stadiums are filled with 1 to 5 thousand people for the average league match.

These are 2 measurable facts that don't really align with hosting a EC. Whether anyone likes it or not...
Some see that Euro might be a chance for the developing ones, not only a pleasure for rich ones. If FIFA, IOC and UEFA used your criteria, then Athens would have never hosted Olympics, same for RSA World Cup, Euro 2004 an our 2012. It would all just go around from Spain through France and England to Germany and back. I bet you would be soooo pleased.

Give farmer a tractor?! so you're the good communist and Portgual the bad communists cause they cared more for prestige? Spare it...
michał_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 08:02 PM   #515
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,660

Some countries shouldn't host these events until they've reached a certain level of development. Judging by some newspaper articles, Poland/Ukraine 2012 could turn into a disaster. I'm not opposed to those countries (eg South Africa) hosting these kinds of events but they need to do their homework beforehand.
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #516
michał_
Registered User
 
michał_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Krk | Stw
Posts: 1,634
Likes (Received): 71

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
Judging by some newspaper articles, Poland/Ukraine 2012 could turn into a disaster. I'm not opposed to those countries (eg South Africa) hosting these kinds of events but they need to do their homework beforehand.
Judging by some newspaper articles, Poland and Ukraine wouldn't ever be given the chance to host Euro and Austria and Switzerland are too small (in case you read nothing before the Euro 2008 selection was made- that was the mood). Still, they did it, accepted enormous amounts of supporters and are doing surprisingly well coping with the crowds. Also, Euro in Prtugal was also said to be a possible disaster- I remember apocalyptic news that the will never build the stadiums (Somgaue's subcontractors blocking construction sites, etc.). Thankfully it's not the newspapers to decide.
michał_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 08:24 PM   #517
mavn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 180
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by michał_ View Post
Some see that Euro might be a chance for the developing ones, not only a pleasure for rich ones. If FIFA, IOC and UEFA used your criteria, then Athens would have never hosted Olympics, same for RSA World Cup, Euro 2004 an our 2012. It would all just go around from Spain through France and England to Germany and back. I bet you would be soooo pleased.

Give farmer a tractor?! so you're the good communist and Portgual the bad communists cause they cared more for prestige? Spare it...
The debt that the current Greek administration is in is staggering. They'll still be paying of those debts in 50 years time. All thanks to the Olympics.

The tractor example I gave was merely an attempt to show the extend in which way Portugal was behind in GDP to the other EU members. NOT to insult the Portuguese in any way. I'm all for the Ukraine/Poland bid. These are countries that are relatively poor because they come from a communist background. In 20 years time however I wouldn't be surprised if they were more prosperous than many western european countries. And above all, they have the amount of people to sustain the stadiums. Portugal has has 10 million inhabitants. Poland and Ukraine 85 million combined...

I'm from a small (but relatively rich) country myself (Holland) and I would love to see a World Cup or Olympics in my country. But not at the EXPENSE of my country. The Greeks are either to ignorant or to proud to organize an event that puts their country on the verge of bankruptcy...
mavn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #518
Quintana
Registered Abuser
 
Quintana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 美好的码头
Posts: 4,316
Likes (Received): 1158

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavn View Post
The money that they've spend on those stadiums could have been given to the normal people. Farmers could have been given a tractor. Instead of them still ploughing the field with an ox... .
Class
Quintana no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 08:38 PM   #519
michał_
Registered User
 
michał_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Krk | Stw
Posts: 1,634
Likes (Received): 71

I think the Greeks were too uneconomical and their bid wasn't well thought through. If countries of size and potential (in filling the venues to make them profitable) of Austria and Switzerland can host a Euro that will be beneficial for them, then Greece shouldn't have a problem hosting smaller Olympics (I know, number of venues is high, but their standard doesn't have to be and more of them can be built temporarily). The fact they made no good outcome is their fault, but not an argument against giving the organization to smaller countries.

You think Holland wouldn't make good Olympics? I think you would do fantastic and have a lot of benefits from it without the white elephant effect. Just like the World Cup for which you are bidding after all...

By the way- calling Holand a relatively rich is either false modesty or ignorance my friend
Or at least it shows the difference in scale considering viewpoints. For me Poland is a relatively rich country. Sierra Leone is poor...

PS: I still have problem understanding you point of view after what you wrote about Poland and Ukraine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavn View Post
The tractor example I gave was merely an attempt to show the extend in which way Portugal was behind in standard of living to the other EU members.
My parents didn't use an ox to plough, we had a horse... Does the communist background make us proviliged in any way if our situation is quite like Portugal's?
michał_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 09:18 PM   #520
Bahnsteig4
.
 
Bahnsteig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vienna.
Posts: 5,709
Likes (Received): 93

BTW, today we need to say goodbye to Stade de Genève!
__________________
VIENNA - Should Europe fear this city?

Austrian Forum - Support our Skybar!


Yes, for ****'s sake, all pictures I post were TAKEN BY ME
Bahnsteig4 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu