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Old February 5th, 2006, 09:52 PM   #21
luv2bebrown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee
What the heck are you rambling about? I really have no idea. No unions in Dubai. Workders passports can get taken. Workers who live in deplorable living and working conditions. Yea, a real workers paradise. Do they even have a minimum wage in Dubai?

The USA built on slave labor? What are you talking about? And please don't bring up slavery from 150 years ago because we all know that Arabs outlawe slavery long after Americans.

everyday the situation is improving, construction workers are no longer afraid to protest, and the population of Dubai is becoming ever more supportive of their rights. within a few years, passport confiscation, inadequate accomodation, salary payment deferrals will be a thing of the past.

whereas in a few years, America's poor will still be where it is today.

THe USA was built on slave labour. in case you didnt know, the USA wiped out the native population and brought in slaves from Africa. the slave labour allowed America to build up capital - Capital that was then used to build America into what it is today. without that capital, America would not be where it is today. the same can be said for Europe. never mind that slavery occurred 150 years ago, the fact is that both of us are enjoying the benefit of the genocide of the native Americans and slavery of the African Americans. not only that, but successive American governments and American companies even subverted foreign governments in order to satiate the country's greed. its all well and good to criticize slavery anywhere, but the fact remains that you are throwing stones from a glass house. at least the UAE is one up on the USA in that it takes advantages of voluntary cheap labour, instead of involuntary slave labour.


the legacy of slavery in the USA is FAR FAR FAR more profound now than the legacy of cheap voluntary immigrant labour in the UAE
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Old February 5th, 2006, 10:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
[everyday the situation is improving, construction workers are no longer afraid to protest, and the population of Dubai is becoming ever more supportive of their rights. within a few years, passport confiscation, inadequate accomodation, salary payment deferrals will be a thing of the past.
Hope so for the workers sake, but right now they are just words.


Quote:
whereas in a few years, America's poor will still be where it is today.
Amerca's "poor" is better off then the 20 dollars a day labors in Dubai. And they poor will be better off in Dubai? That means the Indians, Pakis, and others are going to be given citazenship and equal rights? Thats funny because I thought as undesirables they were just going to be shipped back in five years. News to me.

Quote:
THe USA was built on slave labour. in case you didnt know, the USA wiped out the native population and brought in slaves from Africa. the slave labour allowed America to build up capital -
Please don't talk about slavery when Arabia has such a long and storied history. The U.S. abolished slavery in the 1860's and Arabia in the 1960's!!!!! Not to mention there is still cases of slavery in parts of the Middle East today. So please now brow beating.




Quote:
the legacy of slavery in the USA is FAR FAR FAR more profound now than the legacy of cheap voluntary immigrant labour in the UAE
HOw so? Arabia had a legacy of slavery hundreads of years before the Americas and over a hundread years after. So I can't really understand your point.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 10:03 PM   #23
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For once I think that this topic won't be closed because of Dubai-bashers.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 10:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee
Hope so for the workers sake, but right now they are just words.

Amerca's "poor" is better off then the 20 dollars a day labors in Dubai. And they poor will be better off in Dubai? That means the Indians, Pakis, and others are going to be given citazenship and equal rights? Thats funny because I thought as undesirables they were just going to be shipped back in five years. News to me.

Please don't talk about slavery when Arabia has such a long and storied history. The U.S. abolished slavery in the 1860's and Arabia in the 1960's!!!!! Not to mention there is still cases of slavery in parts of the Middle East today. So please now brow beating

HOw so? Arabia had a legacy of slavery hundreads of years before the Americas and over a hundread years after. So I can't really understand your point.

workers rights are improving everyday. 5 years ago, they used to be transported from camps to construction sites in overcrowded trailer-type vehicles where they resembled livestock being transported to slaughterhouses. After much protesting and campaigning, the government forced construction companies to transport them in buses. today, there is a hotline that any worker can call to file complaints. a law office with lawyers specializing in workers rights have been set up by the government to help workers with rights abuses. 50-80 new camp inspectors have been hired recently in order for the government to be able to inspect all the camps adequately. the government allowed the filming of the camps and working conditions in the movie Syriana instead of censoring the working conditions. 10 years ago, workers were too afraid to protest... now they protest quite frequently, AND not only construction workers, but Taxi drivers who have to meet an unreasonable quota each day also made a public protest by shutting down the city's taxi service. "workers rights are improving" may be words to you, but they are backed up by actions.


America's homeless are far worse off than Dubai's construction workers. at least Dubai's workers have jobs, shelter and food. they may not have citizenship, but what good is citizenship when their country would rather spend $400-$600billion on wars and weapons than feed their poor?

yes slavery existed throughout Arabia as it did in many many many countries and cultures around the world. the difference is that in America, slaves became slaves based on race alone - under the racist assumption that blacks were born to serve. In the middle east, everybody could be a slave, from blacks to indians, and even whites. these slaves were not always treated as harshly as the American slaves, in fact slaves became government officials, military commanders. In saudi Arabia, even after the late abolition of slavery, slaves became full and equal citizens and became eligible to receive all the benefits that would come as oil. whereas in America, following the abolition of slavery, blacks were treated as outcasts and had to fight for their rights for 100 years. even today 150 years after slavery, there is still the huge discrepancy in wealth and livign standards between the blacks and whites as a result of the legacy of slavery.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 10:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee
You were quick to spin the news pretty well and to praise your king with unabounding loyality.

hahahahahah dubai is a kingdom now

Last edited by Ben_Burj; February 5th, 2006 at 10:40 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 10:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee
Workders passports
I guess this is a new English word : workders

Did you by the way go to the same secondary school as G.W.Bush
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Old February 5th, 2006, 10:43 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee
threads are used as sticky's over in the Middle East forum.
FYI for the plural form we say stickys and not sticky's
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Old February 5th, 2006, 10:44 PM   #28
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While the project freeze will come as a blow to contractors and consultants who are hoping to win work on the Dubailand development, it will be welcomed by real estate players fearful of an oversupply of residential and retail space hitting the Dubai market.
It might not be a "freeze" but the article seems to insinuate that some people in Dubai are becoming nervous because of too much supply
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Old February 5th, 2006, 10:49 PM   #29
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luv2bebrown]workers rights are improving everyday. 5 years ago, they used to be transported from camps to construction sites in overcrowded trailer-type vehicles where they resembled livestock being transported to slaughterhouses. After much protesting and campaigning, the government forced construction companies to transport them in buses. today, there is a hotline that any worker can call to file complaints. a law office with lawyers specializing in workers rights have been set up by the government to help workers with rights abuses. 50-80 new camp inspectors have been hired recently in order for the government to be able to inspect all the camps adequately. the government allowed the filming of the.........

blah blah blah, yes just more words. Until unions are legal I don't care how many "supposed" reforms there are for international public consumption.


Quote:
America's homeless are far worse off than Dubai's construction workers. at least Dubai's workers have jobs, shelter and food. they may not have citizenship
At least the ones in America get some semblence of fair pay and are not nearly as exploited to the same level in Dubai.

,
Quote:
but what good is citizenship when their country would rather spend $400-$600billion on wars and weapons than feed their poor?
Every nation has homeless so I am not sure what your point is. It is pretty hard to die of hunger in the States. Still, I find it funny that you always come back to the U.S. as somehow it looks noble in comparison. Obviously it is good enough for you to study or work in so I find it pretty hypocritical. I know I wouldn't be spending time living in a place I find basically immoral and evil as you think the U.S. is but maybe you are a differant cat....I tend to think hypocrasy though.

Quote:
yes slavery existed throughout Arabia as it did in many many many countries and cultures around the world. the difference is that in America, slaves became slaves based on race alone - under the racist assumption that blacks were born to serve.
blah blah blah, I really have no time to hear how good slavery was for people under Islam. It is a nonsensical and insulting premise. The only differance is that in America slaves were black and in Arabia they were mostly black (though not necessarly) but they were non-Muslim. So one was based on race and the other religion. How much more noble somehow that is I have no idea. Please don't try to gloss over and minimalise slavery in past history though because frankly it is insulting.

And as how far as how well slaves in Arabia are treated today it is a not so little secret that domestic servants of all types are generally treated horriably in Arabia and in fact that ACTUAL slavery is still practiced in the Sudan.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:10 PM   #30
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life in america is alright. thats why im here.

but what im saying is im not so brainwashed by American propaganda to pretend like you and I are not benefitting from the genocide and slavery that characterizes american history. and I am not brainwashed by UAE propaganda to pretend like worker rights abuses dont happen. you, on the other, are COMPLETELY brainwashed by American flag-waving. I am proud to say I have never waved a flag in my life. I am a proud world citizen.

in america, you cant survive on minimum wage. it does not even remotely offer a semblance of fair pay. and the reason why the poor in America are not over-exploited is because American companies that bring wealth to the US have done well to outsource the cheap labour. either way, however much you try and convince yourself that America has nothing to do with exploiation, genocide, cheap labour, slave labour and various human rights abuses... it in fact does. AND you are benefitting from all these things. it is the same hand that feeds both of us.

at no point have I ever said the exploitation of workers in dubai isnt a big deal. instead i recognize the problem, and i fully appreciate the fact things are getting better everyday. i am proud to say that the population of Dubai supports these workers. whereas you completely deny the fact that America's history of slavery has had an impact on it and your position today.

The UAE does not have a homeless population. there was a homeless single mother maybe a year back... after Gulf News did a report on her, the community paid for and provided her with a house. whereas in America, everyone disregards the homeless as "lazy bums."

do not throw stones from glass houses.

as for slavery, like I said, slavery in the Middle East was a far more complicated issue. And again, once slavery was abolished slaves became full and equal citizens entitled to all benefits they were legally afforded. the same cannot be said for America. please do not suggest America's integration of slaves was successful like that of Arabia's integration because quite frankly it is insulting.

so maybe you werent a hypocrite since you were unaware of your country's history. but now you know... and you gotta know to be a hypocrite
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:11 PM   #31
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OMG, EVERYONE SHUT UP ABOUT SLAVE LABOR!!!

EVERYONE USES IT... EVERYONE! THAT INCLUDES YOU!

So you're all jealous of what Dubai is doing. NEED I REMIND YOU YOUR ADDICTION TO OIL CREATED THE FOUNDATION FOR ALL THIS!?!?!?

So much misplaced anger...
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:14 PM   #32
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I wonder how much the workers who works under slave-like conditions in Dubai actually get for building all these magnificent buildings.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:23 PM   #33
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anywhere between 3dh an hour and 15dh an hour
$1= 3.67dh
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:24 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee
in the Sudan.
FYI we say in Sudan and not in the Sudan

it is sad but the education level of today's young people is going down and down day after day
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2bebrown
life in america is alright. thats why im here.

but what im saying is im not so brainwashed by American propaganda to pretend like you and I are not benefitting from the genocide and slavery that characterizes american history. and I am not brainwashed by UAE propaganda to pretend like worker rights abuses dont happen. you, on the other, are COMPLETELY brainwashed by American flag-waving. I am proud to say I have never waved a flag in my life. I am a proud world citizen.

in america, you cant survive on minimum wage. it does not even remotely offer a semblance of fair pay. and the reason why the poor in America are not over-exploited is because American companies that bring wealth to the US have done well to outsource the cheap labour. either way, however much you try and convince yourself that America has nothing to do with exploiation, genocide, cheap labour, slave labour and various human rights abuses... it in fact does. AND you are benefitting from all these things. it is the same hand that feeds both of us.

at no point have I ever said the exploitation of workers in dubai isnt a big deal. instead i recognize the problem, and i fully appreciate the fact things are getting better everyday. i am proud to say that the population of Dubai supports these workers. whereas you completely deny the fact that America's history of slavery has had an impact on it and your position today.

The UAE does not have a homeless population. there was a homeless single mother maybe a year back... after Gulf News did a report on her, the community paid for and provided her with a house. whereas in America, everyone disregards the homeless as "lazy bums."

do not throw stones from glass houses.

as for slavery, like I said, slavery in the Middle East was a far more complicated issue. And again, once slavery was abolished slaves became full and equal citizens entitled to all benefits they were legally afforded. the same cannot be said for America. please do not suggest America's integration of slaves was successful like that of Arabia's integration because quite frankly it is insulting.

so maybe you werent a hypocrite since you were unaware of your country's history. but now you know... and you gotta know to be a hypocrite
Frankly I am tired of your ratioanlizations and bored of you so I will not write a lenghty response. I am not the one who is trying to spin slavery was something positive and benevolent as you so the fact that you say I am the one in denial is pretty hysterical.

And fact there is MUCH racism in Arabia and I know of people who have lived there and do know so I don't take your personal experiance as somehow without bias.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:34 PM   #36
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racism in Arabia pales in comparison to racism in America

have i lived in both Arabia and America? yes
have you lived in both Arabia and America? no

so... i am forced to come to the conclusion that you talk out of your ass


yes... even you Nomarandlee - the champion of the anti-slavery movement, the bringer of Peace, the defender of justice, the beacon light of hope for the poor, the hero of equality and dignity! - even you... benefit from slavery and cheap labour on a daily basis.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:45 PM   #37
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Are we talking about slavery or exploitation here? And this affects Dubailand how? Maybe you two should PM each other your comments.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:50 PM   #38
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I'm requesting this thread be deleted.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 11:50 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyguy
Are we talking about slavery or exploitation here? And this affects Dubailand how? Maybe you two should PM each other your comments.
So let`s get back to the topic.

What do you think now about the boom in Dubai after reading the articel?
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Old February 6th, 2006, 12:47 AM   #40
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This makes sense, finally. I'm glad the sheikh is very clever!
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