daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > City/Metro Compilations

City/Metro Compilations Help report active highrise/urban developments occurring in your city to the global SSC community.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 5th, 2017, 04:02 PM   #20121
Bligh
Registered User
 
Bligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1,450
Likes (Received): 817

Cracking report. The figures in Tower Hamlets and Greenwich really are shocking. It's a skyscraper-fans dream.

I know its an age-old topic but it really leads me to ponder the lifespan of City airport..
__________________
~
"when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford."
— Samuel Johnson
~

L O N D O N
~

instagram//photography: @leaf.it.out.luke
Bligh no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 5th, 2017, 04:35 PM   #20122
geoking66
Registered User
 
geoking66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London, New York
Posts: 3,279
Likes (Received): 7369

There is no western city building like London. I don't think that even Toronto is this development-intensive. It's a beautiful thing to see.
__________________
If I don't credit a photo, I took it.
geoking66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 07:30 PM   #20123
PortoNuts
Registered User
 
PortoNuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Porto
Posts: 24,109
Likes (Received): 7543

HNA Venture Said to Bid for CapCo’s $375 Million London Venue

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-london-venue

Quote:
HNA Group Co., the Chinese conglomerate that last month purchased a stake in Deutsche Bank AG, is in talks to acquire the Olympia exhibition center in west London from Capital & Counties Properties Plc, according to three people with knowledge of the matter.

HNA has teamed up Bugsby Property LLC to offer more than 300 million pounds ($375 million) for CapCo’s venues unit, which owns the property, the people said. They asked not to be identified because the information is private. A separate bid from a group including Yoo Capital Ltd. and a German company is also being considered, the people said.

...
__________________
Got one head for money and one head for sin..
PortoNuts no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 08:50 PM   #20124
SE9
South East Nine
 
SE9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 34,168
Likes (Received): 61605

If City Airport were to close, Newham's numbers would rise considerably. The airport and under-utilised land around it would all be suitable for +20 storey buildings.

E16 should be a much closer rival to E14 and SE10.
__________________
-

Zaz965 liked this post
SE9 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #20125
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 6,000
Likes (Received): 26192

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
There is no western city building like London. I don't think that even Toronto is this development-intensive. It's a beautiful thing to see.
Not to start a city v city or anything, but in the western world, I believe New York is comparable and even edges out London in the intensity of development. From the stats above there are 91 buildings of 20 stories or more in London. Below are the 50m+ (roughly corresponding to 20 stories as you can see in the 'floors' column) U/C in NY. There are also a few 20+ stories in Brooklyn missing, and about 10 in Jersey City missing, so over 110 in total. Not to mention that NY of course skews taller, meaning if you compare 100m+ buildings that are U/C, NY's lead further increases: ~78 vs 40-45 buildings as a very rough estimate using CTBUH and SE9's great update from Jan 1st.

What's more exciting about London is that they're relatively new to the ballgame, and seeing so much rise at once, where there was none before, is an amazing sight to see. Anyway, what both cities are doing is nothing short of impressive.



Last edited by streetscapeer; April 5th, 2017 at 09:45 PM.
streetscapeer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 09:50 PM   #20126
SE9
South East Nine
 
SE9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 34,168
Likes (Received): 61605

I'm not sure if geoking's comment pertained to tall buildings only, or the intensiveness of development in general (including regeneration schemes, infrastructure schemes etc)
__________________
-

Zaz965 liked this post
SE9 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 10:03 PM   #20127
heymikey1981
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 343
Likes (Received): 287

What will be even more impressive is when the HS2-Crossrail interchange station in Old Oak Common gets built, unlocking the brownfield site surrounding it. This opportunity area is roughly the same size as downtown Vancouver, which has a population of at least 100,000 people.



Vancouver overview for a perspective in size and potential of the area:


Old Oak Common and Park Royal overview:


It will be the most connected site in London with crossrail, HS2, underground, overground, and mainline routes. And with no sightlines, conservation areas, and listed buildings, it will be a blank canvas for developers and architects. In about 40 years time, this area will be full of tall buildings.
heymikey1981 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 10:12 PM   #20128
Mr Cladding
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London
Posts: 7,118
Likes (Received): 11321

Not necessarily

Park Royal is legally protected land which prevents wholesale redevelopment and is critically important in supplying the needs of London.
Mr Cladding no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 10:17 PM   #20129
geoking66
Registered User
 
geoking66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London, New York
Posts: 3,279
Likes (Received): 7369

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
I'm not sure if geoking's comment pertained to tall buildings only, or the intensiveness of development in general (including regeneration schemes, infrastructure schemes etc)
Both. New York may be building taller for obvious reasons, but from experience (I split my time between the two), it's nowhere near the same volume in terms of units, master-planned schemes and scale of regeneration as you'd find in London. In terms of infrastructure investment, London is light-years ahead.

I didn't mean to create a city-vs-city debate, just an observation at a boom that continues to amaze me.
__________________
If I don't credit a photo, I took it.
geoking66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 10:22 PM   #20130
SE9
South East Nine
 
SE9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 34,168
Likes (Received): 61605

Thanks for the clarification
__________________
-

Zaz965 liked this post
SE9 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2017, 10:53 PM   #20131
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 6,000
Likes (Received): 26192

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
Both. New York may be building taller for obvious reasons, but from experience (I split my time between the two), it's nowhere near the same volume in terms of units, master-planned schemes and scale of regeneration as you'd find in London. In terms of infrastructure investment, London is light-years ahead.

I didn't mean to create a city-vs-city debate, just an observation at a boom that continues to amaze me.
On infrastructure investment, I agree. On the amount of individual buildings going up (at any height), see above. On the amount of buildings being renovated, I'm not sure I agree (but willing to be persuaded with data).




In fact, when you look at total real estate investment (which includes everything from new developments and renovation projects), New York is well ahead of London.

Cushman&Wakefield total real estate investment (showing the percentage change from the previous year as well):








http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/r...ies-2016-2017/




Anyway, sorry to muck up the thread, just wanted to add some data to stuff being said

Last edited by streetscapeer; April 6th, 2017 at 12:28 AM.
streetscapeer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 12:41 AM   #20132
SomeKindOfBug
Registered User
 
SomeKindOfBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,048
Likes (Received): 1040

London's numbers are heavily suppressed by the uncertainty of Brexit.
SomeKindOfBug no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 12:58 AM   #20133
geoking66
Registered User
 
geoking66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London, New York
Posts: 3,279
Likes (Received): 7369

Yeah, London dropped by a huge amount in 2016. Before that, it was by far the leader in property investment globally. Keep in mind that New York is also a much larger real estate market by size, so absolute volume isn't always the best way of measuring; per-square-foot figures, even with currency fluctuations, are higher in London.

In terms of office, the most recent Deloitte survey puts London activity at 14.8m square feet compared to 12.5m square feet for New York. Residential is a bit harder, but JLL has London units underway at roughly 34,000. I can't find a good number for active construction in New York, but I've seen numbers of ~50,000 approvals in 2016, but that was partially due to pent-up action from earlier years and not all are going to necessarily get approval, so the actual number of units underway is much lower. So at the moment, both are pretty evenly matched, but had the referendum either been remain or not happened at all, London would likely still be leading.
__________________
If I don't credit a photo, I took it.
geoking66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 02:13 AM   #20134
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 6,000
Likes (Received): 26192

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
Yeah, London dropped by a huge amount in 2016. Before that, it was by far the leader in property investment globally.
The link presented is only for commercial real estate and it doesn't show either city leading "by far" in that category. And in fact, New York seems to now be leading in that category




http://www.knightfrank.com/globalcities



From Cushman, here are the stats for office real estate investment



http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/r...ies-2016-2017/
streetscapeer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 02:49 AM   #20135
geoking66
Registered User
 
geoking66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London, New York
Posts: 3,279
Likes (Received): 7369

Yes; New York took over in terms of investment volumes due to the uncertainty of the referendum, a strengthening dollar, London already reaching peak pricing and being farther ahead in terms of the rent cycle than New York since ~2011. The year-over-year drops show this well. Additionally, much of this is comprised of very high-profile assets trading hands rather than investment into new construction with the exception of Hudson Yards and a few other developments. However, the scale of development activity is still likely larger in London when looking at the supply of new residential and commercial under construction, major regeneration schemes (Nine Elms, Battersea, KXC, Wood Wharf, E&C, Greenwich Peninsula et al) and current and future infrastructure investment unlocking new opportunities for housing at Old Oak Common and Old Kent Road, among other locations. This is an important distinction because of Los Angeles' placement on Table 5b: LA is barely building any office space, but has had a number of major portfolio sales. It doesn't equate to development.

Really didn't mean for this to go off-topic.
__________________
If I don't credit a photo, I took it.
geoking66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 04:05 AM   #20136
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 6,000
Likes (Received): 26192

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
Yes; New York took over in terms of investment volumes due to the uncertainty of the referendum, a strengthening dollar, London already reaching peak pricing and being farther ahead in terms of the rent cycle than New York since ~2011.
I guess I would need to see the data you have. I remember in the past London being ahead in terms foreign direct investment (this is no longer the case), but NY still being ahead in total investment because of the huge domestic investiture. All before the referendum


Even looking back from 2012, all the years yield the same ranking as the above (2016-17)





http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/r...ities-2013-14/
http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/r...ies-2014-2015/
http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/r...ies-2015-2016/



Quote:
Additionally, much of this is comprised of very high-profile assets trading hands rather than investment into new construction with the exception of Hudson Yards and a few other developments.
As the graphs and tables mention, all the data above from Cushman excludes "development sites" so does not contain this type of investment

I disagree with some of your further assertions but it's ok we don't need to go back and forth. I really just wanted to refute your initial [quite grandiose] claims of "There is no western city building like London" and "nowhere near the same volume".
streetscapeer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 04:31 AM   #20137
Ghostface79
Registered User
 
Ghostface79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,546
Likes (Received): 4655

Geoking, I also I'm curious to see those figures you keep talking about. Impressions aren't facts.
Also "Hudson Yards and a few other developments"? I'm sure you are aware that NYC does not just consist of Manhattan cause in terms of large scale developments you might also look into Atlantic Yards in Brooklyn, the whole LIC, and Flushing in Queens, the south Bronx, the North Shore of Staten Island.... So yea, I'm curious to see those figures showing how new development in London surpasses NYC. Please share.

Last edited by Ghostface79; April 6th, 2017 at 04:41 AM.
Ghostface79 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 05:37 AM   #20138
geoking66
Registered User
 
geoking66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London, New York
Posts: 3,279
Likes (Received): 7369

Considering that I grew up there, I do. I haven't denied that New York has overtaken London in terms of dollar volume of investment; my statement had to do with development, which is a different ballgame. The investment figures that have been posted here are largely comprised of sales data for transactions of existing assets. I've already given direct data regarding office and residential activity (no report of late seems to have data explicitly on development activity in New York rather than permits). Below are the best figures that I can find:


Residential construction (units):
  • London: approx. 66,000 (based on estimate of 20,000 in high-rise being 30% of Greater London development, NLA/FT)
  • New York: approx. 56,000 (Marcus & Millichap)

Residential starts (units):
Permits:
  • London: 15,760 units (Q4 2016 based on annualising 3,940 units, JLL)
  • New York: 15,697 units (2016, NYC DOB)

Office construction:
  • London: 14,790,000 s.f. (Deloitte)
  • New York: 12,500,000 s.f. (C&W)

Since I'd really like to refrain from taking over this thread that SE9 and others put so much work into, I'm going to bow out after this and revert back to commenting on local projects. There's a lot of really fascinating development going on in both cities as it is and we should be showcasing and celebrating it.
__________________
If I don't credit a photo, I took it.
geoking66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 05:49 AM   #20139
Ghostface79
Registered User
 
Ghostface79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,546
Likes (Received): 4655

I agree with the latter statement and sorry londoners for having wasted so much of your great thread.

That said no offense but there's something to be said about your data, coming from someone who deals with data collection,you cannot compare data from different agencies, each with their own standards to make fair comparisons. Take some time to read through those same articles you posted as an example. I'm sure if I had a few hours to waste I can find a few of my own.

Show me data using similar standards from a single entity and then We can talk.

Alright I'm done. Sorry again.
Ghostface79 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2017, 05:53 AM   #20140
geoking66
Registered User
 
geoking66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London, New York
Posts: 3,279
Likes (Received): 7369

(Sorry to renege on my promise in advance.)

That's not possible; there are no like-to-like comparisons for development activity or residential or commercial construction by volume and unfortunately the CTBUH database has only limited use since the development patterns are highly divergent between the two cities. Property agencies such as C&W, JLL and such have proprietary databases that track sales transactions that are used to determine investment figures. I would know because I work in the industry. The numbers presented are still subject to standard error, internal knowledge and approximations of confidential transaction values. They are not representative of development activity.

I made an innocuous comment and it got taken out of proportion. Sorry for bothering everyone.
__________________
If I don't credit a photo, I took it.
geoking66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
development, england, london, united kingdom

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium