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Old July 18th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #6961
Quicksilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoses View Post
Also, interesting to note: I lived in Hampshire for a while whilst working in London. The train to London everyday was rammed, quite often I had to stand. There were four trains an hour with eight carriages each. So I'd feel reasonably confident in saying the London metro area stretches at least partly into Hampshire.
Same for Cambridge, the trains are packed each morning and evening and this is city which is good 60 miles away from London city center.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 11:05 AM   #6962
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South Bank Tower | South Bank SE1

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=429988

Official website: http://www.southbanktower.com/


An additional 5 storey height increase to the South Bank Tower plans was approved yesterday. This takes the total height increase to 11 storeys: South Bank Tower: council approves 5 extra floors and collects £5m

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Old July 18th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #6963
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Shell Centre | South Bank SE1

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1627784

Official website: http://shellcentredialogue.com/


It has been announced this morning that demolition work on the Shell Centre site will begin this year: Work to start on massive Shell Centre rebuild

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Old July 18th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #6964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
Interestingly, for the area that the New York metro area constitutes (11,842 sq mi), London has a population of over 20 million
London's commuter rail network through this metro region hinterland is also vastly more extensive than New York's.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #6965
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London commuter towns, most of which is within an hour's train ride to the 12 main city terminals.

This is precisely the 'problem' of the Green Belt that the jury's currently out on, it's prevented blanket suburban sprawl (low density) but it's created an even larger
blanket peppering of commuter satellites (high density):



updated map (new 13th terminal at Stratford and high speed rail):

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static...South_East.pdf


and a repost from the last page - the Green Belt has created high density pockets across the board (new developments in light pink, reaching saturation
stage in the west especially). Expect it to become even more dense - although the city grew by 850,000 in the last decade, the metro outside it,
since this picture was taken, has grown by over a million, forcing in new legislation to allow building on the protected land:

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Last edited by the spliff fairy; July 18th, 2013 at 12:07 PM.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #6966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birmingham View Post
Elegant Norman Foster design. I'll add that to my list of favourite upcoming high-rise projects, ranked no 5...

1) One Nine Elms = 200m & 161m
2) W.R. Berkley at 52-54 Lime Street = 192m
3) Baltimore Wharf Tower = 150m
4) Manhattan Loft Gardens = 143m
5) Principal Place = 161m
6) 257 City Road Basin = 115m
7) 145 City Road = 134m
8) Arrowhead Quay = 183m & 170m
9) Canada Water site C/E = 150m
10) 250 City Road = 155m
11) Heron Plaza = 135m
12) City Pride = 239m
13) Vauxhall Square = 2x 168m
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Old July 18th, 2013, 11:28 AM   #6967
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240 Blackfriars Road | Southwark SE1

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=457359

Cladding near the top of the tower, situated near the South Bank Tower above:

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Old July 18th, 2013, 01:21 PM   #6968
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Two big highrise schemes announced yesterday. As well as the two-tower development planned in the Shard's vicinity, there is also plans for a redevelopment of the site pictured below, to the immediate south of Canary Wharf:



The current plan is for three buildings and the renovation of one of the existing buildings. Two of the new buildings are intended as towers of 250m (80 floors) and 130m (35 floors). The tallest would be quite comfortably the highest building in the wharf if built to that height.

So far only a scoping opinion has been submitted, so the plans could change.

Link to article.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 04:20 PM   #6969
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Jesus, just been in the London thread in the French section of SSC and the pathetic, childish trolling of 3 or 4 members in there regards London is just unbelievable.

If you ever want proof of just how insanely jealous they are of London's success, then pay a visit, and even if you have to use Google translate, it will quickly become clear what a sad bunch of bitter douche bags they are.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #6970
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Thanks for all that info.

It now all comes together why they're pushing CrossRail and Thameslink through.

To put it in context, if we were to look at a map of NYC's population density, I'd hazard a guess that there would be a huge pinnacle around Manhattan and it would drop precipitously (comparatively) across the Greater NYC area (i.e. the central boroughs are extremely dense, the outer boroughs less so, and the commuter areas in Northern NJ/etc even less).

A:



However, it seems (from what I am gathering) that London is more like a few other cities (like, LA for example) in that the density in the central areas holds a lot more evenly across the entire city/metro area.
That is not to say LA is as dense as London (for the few who I know will miss the point ) but that it is actually denser when you account for the whole rather than solely the center (i.e. not being able to see the forest for the trees).

B:
(I'd like to find a similar visualization to explore whether or not this is the case.)

That's the consensus that we're beginning to see in NY and around many other cities in the US: to develop more evenly across metro areas, building up highly concentrated nodes connected to each other.

I honestly sounds a bit "Garden City-ish," but all-in-all it's probably more TOD than anything else.

Anyways, not to derail the thread or anything, I just think what's going on in London is pivotal and not very many people are talking about it...
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Old July 18th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #6971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
London commuter towns, most of which is within an hour's train ride to the 12 main city terminals.

This is precisely the 'problem' of the Green Belt that the jury's currently out on, it's prevented blanket suburban sprawl (low density) but it's created an even larger
blanket peppering of commuter satellites (high density):
To be fair city depopulation and New Town expansion were later government economic policy for other reasons mainly to disperse poverty due to industrial collapse and perceived poor housing conditions (culmination of the garden city ideology and modernist restructuring). I consider this phenomena separate to the green belt policy which was brought in much earlier like you said to stop sprawl and was more a product of public protest.

It could have been an entirely feasible alternate history where the green belt existed but greater London densified and increased in population, leaving the new towns as villages during the same period if the politics was different.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #6972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR View Post
Jesus, just been in the London thread in the French section of SSC and the pathetic, childish trolling of 3 or 4 members in there regards London is just unbelievable.

If you ever want proof of just how insanely jealous they are of London's success, then pay a visit, and even if you have to use Google translate, it will quickly become clear what a sad bunch of bitter douche bags they are.
that's why they keep adding 5000 and 10000 views to the Paris International section all the time don't worry about them their brains are stewed in their own bitter and twisted hatred
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Old July 18th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #6973
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I have always hated that Canary wharf building it looks like a sad plasticy Moorish House I am glad its going to go and hopefully will get something decent and pleasing to the eye
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Old July 18th, 2013, 06:43 PM   #6974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
(I'd like to find a similar visualization to explore whether or not this is the case.)
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Old July 18th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #6975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post

Same for Cambridge, the trains are packed each morning and evening and this is city which is good 60 miles away from London city center.
Yeah, the 18 carriage 8tph trains from Daejeon to Seoul (90miles away) are packed all the time too. Doesn't mean they're the same city or metro area. A metro area has people moving in both directions throughout the day, shared facilities ie schools, health,full public transport (bus, subway, train, taxi), power, entertainment. Cambridge is not in Londons metropolitan area so isn't part of the city statistics. Rough figures but London is about 8mill, NYC 18mill, Tokyo 35mill.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #6976
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Glassy buildings next to railway lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
240 Blackfriars Road | Southwark SE1

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=457359

Cladding near the top of the tower, situated near the South Bank Tower above:

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Old July 18th, 2013, 07:50 PM   #6977
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Cool Graph! Nice finding SE9! I've been trying to do some research on the subject and I gotta say, i can't come up with a definite answer in order to compare the populations of London and NYC. You guys are absolutely right in a sense that there is no comparable way of comparing population in both cities, mostly because of geographic reasons. My definition of what defines the city of NY seems to be competely different from what you guys define London as, but if you stick to the pure definition of city limits, you can check anywhere you want, NYC is about 8 Mill and London about 3 Mill. Bottom line is, if the professionals themselves can't agree on a single way to compare the two cities, I can't make an argument on either side of the issue.
I do wanna point out that there are quite a number of people commuting from as far as Philadelphia, Connecticut and Long island just to name a few on a daily basis, that doesn't mean it's part of NYC, tho u can argue that it's part of its metropolitan area.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 08:43 PM   #6978
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seriously where on earth is the 3 million figure for London coming from?????

You realise 'Greater London', of 8.3 million, is really just the smaller city proper (equivalent to the 5 boroughs) and that large parts of the contiguous urban area continue outside? It's only called 'Greater' London (and not 'smaller' London) to differentiate it from the medieval 'City of London' that's only one square mile around St Pauls Cathedral. If it wan't for that medieval moniker Greater London would be renamed 'City of London', and the Southeast Region (read: metro) would probably become known as Greater London.

Also the idea of a 'metro' in the US is worked out by (estimated) commuter rates, either way, that add up to only 25%, and some as low as 10% (and not even into the source city). NYC's metro is one such example of exceptionalism - as far afield as whole counties in Pennsylvania (Pike) fall into the category merely because they receive or are part of NYC's 'television designated market area', with nothing on commuting.

As mentioned before if you applied this to the London Southeast region you'd get just as inflated catchment areas and similar population - and why CSA's aren't used in the UK. Due to the increased commute levels in the UK (just look at that rail map fer Chrissakes) practically all the CSA's of the large towns and cities would be overlapping, and thus create one amorphous monster.

Last edited by the spliff fairy; July 18th, 2013 at 09:00 PM.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #6979
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seriously where on earth is the 3 million figure for London coming from?????
Ignore it, probably just Brisavoine trolling London under his new account name after his banning.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #6980
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3 millions for London really that makes Casablanca morocco bigger than London
this is has to be the funniest thing I have ever read in this forum since I joined in really funny
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