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Old August 5th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #7441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
Hence why I only mentioned Scandinavia which Finland is not a part of.
I've seen people adding Finland to it as well (due to history), apart from Iceland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:00 PM   #7442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
For interested spectators, I'm running a photo gallery named London: A World Capital, which mainly features street level photos of London.

Check it out and make your mind up regarding the aesthetics of London at street level, positive or negative.
Yes, and a fantastic thread it is SE9, I view it often. It would be very difficult to post a negative comment on those fabulous street views of London, views as good as any you could find in any world city.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:01 PM   #7443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
I've seen people adding Finland to it as well (due to history), apart from Iceland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia
Yes, and they are wrong.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #7444
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Tate Modern extension | Bankside SE1

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=377117

Official website: http://www.tate.org.uk/about/project...modern-project




New updates by forumer chest:









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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:21 PM   #7445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
The link linked to a few pages back did show that the roads were safer in all of Scandinavia ...
There are no huge metropolises in Scandinavia... London is very different to Stockholm, Olso and Copenhagen my friend. VERY different.

Also, El Greco... Statistics are key. Personal experiences are bias - because they are personal. A LARGE range of personal experiences forms a good outlook on a situation, yet this in itself becomes a statitic.

Why would the UK change its WHOLE road system now? This is not logical. Esepecially changing a system that works in a large populated European nation - in this case the UK becomes a leader.

Improvements are always needed everywhere as its an imperfect world.

At the end of the day, with all due respect I believe that the people who work on these situations for their job and have been doing so for years know better than just one observer. I'm sure these changes to Holborn circus will work fine - and if they do not, they will surely be changed.

Also... London's streets are iconic and unique. Some people may find it ugly, whereas a majority of visitors find it enchanting and uniquely British - after all they are visiting London, not Paris, Rome, Brussells or Berlin.


Anyway back on topic... I'm really happy that 122 Leadenhall has cladding going up on the top! Looks amazing!
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #7446
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alot of street clutter is due to the litigation culture - to avoid being sued, not because of safety. It actually acts as a dangerous source of distraction and confusion to drivers. When Kensington and Chelsea Borough experimentally removed it's street clutter accidents went down sharply for both vehicles and pedestrians - by as much as 60% for the latter. Kensington High Street saw an overall drop of 47%.

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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #7447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
There are no huge metropolises in Scandinavia... London is very different to Stockholm, Olso and Copenhagen my friend. VERY different.
What's up with this degrading attitude? The comment I commented said that UKs roads were the safest in the Europe. Do you disagree with me when I said that the Scandinavian roads are safer based on the link provided previously? Whether there is any huge metropolises in Scandinavia or not have absolutely no relevance to my comment nor the one of LondonFox at all.

My saying the roads are safer in Scandinavia according to a link is very different to me saying there any huge metropolises in Scandinavia, my friend. VERY different.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:30 PM   #7448
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Hackney Fashion Hub | Hackney Central E8

Official website: http://hackneyfashionhub.co.uk/

Plans have been submitted for Hackney Fashion hub, a 6250 square metre development for fashion startups, designers and outlets:

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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:45 PM   #7449
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this is good, London college of fashion has a small campus in Hackney and the area is already home to some interesting fashion retail outlets around the Brick lane area and some more wholesale outlets in neighbouring Tower Hamlets.

from the link:

Quote:
HACKNEY HAS STRONG HISTORIC LINKS WITH FASHION AND IN THE 1800s WAS THE CENTRE OF LONDON’S TEXTILES INDUSTRY.

Since then, while local manufacturing has declined, Hackney’s creative reputation and links to the fashion industry have flourished. Large numbers of designers have been drawn to Hackney for its avant-garde reputation.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #7450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
What's up with this degrading attitude? The comment I commented said that UKs roads were the safest in the Europe. Do you disagree with me when I said that the Scandinavian roads are safer based on the link provided previously? Whether there is any huge metropolises in Scandinavia or not have absolutely no relevance to my comment nor the one of LondonFox at all.

My saying the roads are safer in Scandinavia according to a link is very different to me saying there any huge metropolises in Scandinavia, my friend. VERY different.
It's not degrading. I LOVE Scandinavia - beautiful, organized and just a fantastic place to visit and live.

Well.... yes it does have relevance. Urban roads are going to used a lot more in a metropolis like London, thus the cicumstances are completely different. It's like comparing road safety statistics from a Village to a City - its different. One has to effectively look after less traffic than the other. Scandinavian Cities have to deal with a lot less traffic than London, why? Because London is much larger in size and population.

Before one puts road safety and road changes in, wouldn't one evaluate the population of the City/Area and the amount of traffic? YES. Of course they would. So it is relevant.

Like I also said, in my comment - the guys who do this for a job and have been doing so for years seem to think the Holborn Circus situation is fine, so I will stick with their idea thanks.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #7451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
How about relying on your senses and not someone or something else? Dont most of the people drive using sat-navs these days anyway? Besides clutter does not = safety.
I do that as well but in today's world where it's so fast paced, especially in cities with millions of people and cars sign's and directions are of upmost importance and also help millions of foreign visitors who otherwise would have almost zero idea of what to do in many situations.

"clutter" is not all about safety, it is also about giving people information. As is the reasoning for so much in today's world.

Your arguments seem to be from an asthetic point of view which is 10% of their actual relevance.

If you were walking down a one way street and got hit by a car going the wrong way what would you first response be? ... "did you not see that f**king sign"?? ...

I know mine would be.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #7452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
It's not degrading. I LOVE Scandinavia - beautiful, organized and just a fantastic place to visit and live.

Well.... yes it does have relevance. Urban roads are going to used a lot more in a metropolis like London, thus the cicumstances are completely different. It's like comparing road safety statistics from a Village to a City - its different. One has to effectively look after less traffic than the other. Scandinavian Cities have to deal with a lot less traffic than London, why? Because London is much larger in size and population.

Before one puts road safety and road changes in, wouldn't one evaluate the population of the City/Area and the amount of traffic? YES. Of course they would. So it is relevant.

Like I also said, in my comment - the guys who do this for a job and have been doing so for years seem to think the Holborn Circus situation is fine, so I will stick with their idea thanks.

I did not compare anything. It was LondonFox that compared the UK to Europe and concluded you have the safest road, which is untrue according to the link posted previously in this tread. If you do think London can only be compared to select places in Europe, then you should rather take it up with LondonFox who did not put these requirements fore in his/her post.

Furthermore I have never suggested to change road markings or anything else on our street in the UK. Quite honestly I don't care that much s as I do not live there and I doubt I will ever do either.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #7453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
I did not compare anything. It was LondonFox that compared the UK to Europe and concluded you have the safest road, which is untrue according to the link posted previously in this tread. If you do think London can only be compared to select places in Europe, then you should rather take it up with LondonFox who did not put these requirements fore in his/her post.

Furthermore I have never suggested to change road markings or anything else on our street in the UK. Quite honestly I don't care that much s as I do not live there and I doubt I will ever do either.
The only reason i quoted you is because of the Scandinavian comment. That is all.

We obviously come to a dead end in this. No hard feelings or anything. I try to avoid debates on here if I can, but sometimes its too good to resist.

------------------------------------------------

That Hackney Fashion hub is an excellent idea - especially for young entrepreneurs who are in the business. Another brilliant scheme for London!
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Old August 5th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #7454
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Old August 5th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #7455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
And people are yet to answer how 2 traffic lights instead of 4 and no yellow lines is going to compromise safety?
Safety islands are one of the greatest thing on British roads. There are serving few safety things here:

1) A lot of people crossing roads at the last moment so they can be stranded in the middle when lights go red. I've seen it a lot on the Continent where people just simply staying in the middle waiting to cross. It’s unsafe. Here, they have a safe place to wait.

2) It encourages the turning traffic to slow down when turning as a lot of these traffic islands are placed on the roads without any traffic lights at all.
3) It encourages the turning traffic not to cut corners so it's more difficult to hit the incoming cars from your right.
4) As Britain and London especially have high number of tourists and foreign cars it helps those drivers coming from left hand drive countries to adapt to British roads more easily and don't kill anybody on intersections.

Yellow lines:

1) Discourage people to park in obscure places, therefore obstructing the view for other drivers. Again, on the Continent I have seen so many example of bad parking just because road markings and signs weren't very clear. With yellow lines you know exactly where the parking zone ends, full stop, so no parking close to crossings, etc.

2) No need to check signs or stop the car and check the parking time, two yellow lines means no parking full stop. One yellow line, can park after 6 p.m., etc. It's universal; it's everywhere, it simple wherever you go from Highlands to Brighton.

3) Part of British scene (and some former colonies) for many years. It's like red phone boxes. Actually, Singapore and Hong Kongs are still using the same lines, so must work good. As well as yellow marking on junctions, again, that's another great invention:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Sin...,34.67,,0,2.12

Hong Kong, same traffic islands, same yellow lines: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Hon...127.31,,0,9.09

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Hon...,70.37,,0,2.12

Even Ireland after more than 80 years apart keeps the same system. Probably because it's good.

Last edited by Quicksilver; August 5th, 2013 at 05:21 PM.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 05:30 PM   #7456
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Ahwell.

Lets leave this thread now for construction updates and news. Another thread has been set up so the debate can continue there.

For what it's worth there are many signs that can be done away with I agree El Greco but I also firmly believe that a majority are very important and should remain.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #7457
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Old August 5th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #7458
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Quote:
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Nonsense. When you walk around town it soon becomes apparent that people often avoid traffic islands (Im one of them). Indeed some months ago there was a great photo posted on these forums of a snowy London street showing a multitude of footprints going around the traffic island. These things are also tiny which in peak times makes them dangerous with hordes of people pushing and shoving, while traffic thunders by. London streets are narrow enough to be crossed in one go.

Yellow lines are unsightly and have no impact on safety whatsoever. It is a great shame to see expensive surfaces (Monmouth Street or the new square in Kings Cross) ruined so. If you cant be bothered to have a look around and see if you can park there, then thats your problem. City should not be built around the driver. Yes maybe Singapore has them but it does not have traffic lights nor the amount of clutter you see on London roads. If London was more like Singapore that would be great. It isnt.
On picture you showed above the road is not too narrow to cross in one go, especially with pushchair.

Rest, it's just your opinion that's all which of course you can have.

Singapore has less clutter because it has a lot less cars... Britain cannot afford to have this.

As I said, London done a great job in reducing number of cars in the city center, so it's clearly not built around drivers.

Car drivers' problems are also your problem, because you can't kill the car driver as pedestrian but they can kill you. It's like building cage around the tiger, you cannot simply say, it's tiger problem, it's indeed your problem mainly.

Yellow lines, tell me about parking on these streets:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Rom...,265.16,,0,2.8

Is it safe parking? Why drivers don't look around? Is this city built around pedestrians or drivers?
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Old August 5th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #7459
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Old August 5th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #7460
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I hope this all will be moved to the appropriate thread, I am tired too
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