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Old August 5th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #7461
El_Greco
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:00 PM   #7462
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Please, please stop!!
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #7463
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Yeah, where's that nice American mod who comes in here and cleans up this sort of shit. Is it DesertPunk?
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:06 PM   #7464
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #7465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Well there you have it. So much for safety. Its there just to make drivers life easier so they dont have to bother using their head.



Why are there lorries thundering through Cotswold villages or why is Bath just as cluttered as London?



Drivers use sat-navs, tourists smartphones, tablets and Lonely Planets and locals know their way. A lot of signage can be done away with. And people are yet to answer how 2 traffic lights instead of 4 and no yellow lines is going to compromise safety?





I dont walk in the middle of the street.
1) Oh well lets all take that one guys word for it.

2) Lorries aren't going to NEVER go through the countryside - deliveries are made to these places as well you know. Bath is nowhere near as conjested as London, it's not a large City.

3) No one should rely purely on their own mobile/electronic devices to get around a City.

This argument is getting out of hand. You obviously think that you know better than the people that do these things for a living...

Stop being so self righteous and accept others (and in this case a majority) disagree with you and your opinions and observations.

Good day to you.

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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:43 PM   #7466
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:58 PM   #7467
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Do you know what else is cluttered?? This frigging thread now.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #7468
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Someone should wipe out all of El Greco posts (and responses) on the subject of clutter. He's a dullard bore on this subject, ruining many threads for the last two years (not just this one) and also proven wrong many times when singling out London relative to cities on "the Continent" (lol!), eg here, here, here, here, and here (Paris, Stockholm, Berlin, and Copenhagen x 2 respectively).
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Old August 5th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #7469
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This argument of 'more clutter is safer' vs 'more clutter is less safe' is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand. I would like to reiterate my earlier comment that it is not about the quantity of road clutter but the quality of how it is implemented and enforced. Different streets and different junctions require different degrees of signage and regulatory control. Some will work better with more clutter, some locations will work better with less. Getting back to Holborn Circus again I would use Holborn Circus as a good example of a complicated junction that requires good road signage markings and traffic light positioning and sequencing. If anyone here can not grasp this simple basic concept and actually requires an explanation as to why this is then good luck getting an explanation because quite frankly they should not even be debating the issue in the first place.

Now the reason why some juntions have 2 sets of traffic lights

Big junctions with designated turning lanes or passing spaces in the middle will often have them, the reasons for this is obvious.
1 set at the ASL, another at the far end of the junction. The far-end set of lights helps cyclists at the front of the ASL to see the light sequence without constantly craning their neck. It provides greater awareness and visibility of the light sequence. Can't believe i'm actually having to explain this.

Another example of a junction with 2 sets of lights. Routes that are frequently used by large buses and goods vehicles. There may be another set of lights extended to a taller position so that drivers and cyclists further back can see the light sequence when the lower set of lights is blocked by a bus or a lorry.

Does anyone think that local councils just enjoy wasting money by paying their contractors to install double sets of traffic lights at junctions? The people who make these decisions and plan these systems have a duty of care to make the road as safe and as functional as possible for all road users. Sometimes they get it right sometimes they don't. When they don't, reviews are made as to how a junction can be improved.

El Greco, I take it you do have a UK driving license yes? Obviously someone this serious about road marking and signage would have to have some degree of experience with the highway code, and using a vehicle on London's roads in general.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 07:20 PM   #7470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
and also proven wrong many times when singling out London relative to cities on "the Continent" (lol!)
Lol, youre still posting the same highly selective photos?

Ironically even people on this thread agree theres far more clutter in London than elsewhere in Europe. Its just that they celebrate it and claim its there for safety.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 07:33 PM   #7471
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You know what I already completely regret typing all that. Waste of my time quite frankly.

El Greco i'm going to be blunt i'm sorry to say but you're extremely difficult to have a reasonable and level-headed conversation with, as others are also indicating. You may even have some good ideas on the matter that i'd agree with, but your tone of dialogue is often very negative and this method of putting your point across really lets you down.

I wish you well, next time i'll think again about responding to your posts
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Old August 5th, 2013, 07:59 PM   #7472
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Just use the ignore function.... I do.

I never see his posts
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Old August 5th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #7473
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Aylesbury Regeneration | Walworth SE17

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...hp?p=105898001

A demolition notice for blocks of the Aylesbury Estate has just been issued: Aylesbury estate regeneration phase 2 intial demolition notice

The Aylesbury Estate is a public housing project built in the 1970s. It is one of the largest single public housing development in Europe. It's often used as a prime example of urban decay, gang activity and urban poverty:

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Aylesbury Estate by Will-Faichney-Photography, on Flickr

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Aylesbury Estate by Will-Faichney-Photography, on Flickr


The estate is being replaced by mixed income, modern housing in a £2.5 billion redevelopment project:

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Aylesbury Estate regeneration - Walworth, London by SE9 London, on Flickr

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Aylesbury Estate regeneration - Walworth, London by SE9 London, on Flickr

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Aylesbury Estate regeneration - Walworth, London by SE9 London, on Flickr
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Old August 5th, 2013, 09:45 PM   #7474
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Do they always have to be well, so blocky and flat-topped all the time?

Back in the Nineties council residents in Peckham forced new plans to change because of the ubiquitous usage of pale yellow bricks mixed with dark red ones, that marked these developments out as council homes. The design was so common it became a cliche.










^Although they were far more aesthetically pleasing than the concrete monstrosities of the postwar years that they replaced, the uniformity of design was so widespread across the country, specific to cheap build, it lowered house prices and threatened to devolve into just another new form of social ghettoisation. That was the Nineties and early noughties.

Nowadays I'm very tempted to say these may become the equivalent of the samey design for all mass housing:






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Last edited by the spliff fairy; August 5th, 2013 at 10:02 PM.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 10:19 PM   #7475
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Ah yes, that area bounded by Peckham Road, Southampton Way, Burgess Park and Peckham Hill Street that I know so well.


The Ferrier Estate replacement seems to employ a varied mix:

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Kidbrooke Village, London by SE9 London, on Flickr

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Kidbrooke Village, London by SE9 London, on Flickr

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Kidbrooke Village, London by SE9 London, on Flickr

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Kidbrooke Village, London by SE9 London, on Flickr
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Old August 6th, 2013, 12:40 AM   #7476
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I like the new look for these multi level housing projects.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 01:04 AM   #7477
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What a change
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Old August 6th, 2013, 01:41 AM   #7478
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Another possible tower at CW. Between 166 - 185m if approved:

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=3328
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Old August 6th, 2013, 03:52 AM   #7479
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Those residential redevelopments actually look pretty decent .
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Old August 6th, 2013, 12:05 PM   #7480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozenBDJ View Post
Those residential redevelopments actually look pretty decent .
Kidbrooke definitely is. Unrecognisable from the former estate.
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