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Old August 12th, 2013, 12:16 PM   #7621
gehenaus
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Nice updates F-22.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #7622
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This construction frenzy should be somehow controled by public authorities and London citizens and not only lead by private corporations looking for the greatest return on investment, otherwise the city would face serious problems related to gentrification and loss of heritage. One clear example of such heritage issue is the future replacement of the kind of neo-brutalist building right east from Southwark's shunting yard, which in my opinion is a real jewel of this architectural style, with a boxy highrise of the kind we find hundreds rising everywhere around the globe.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 02:14 PM   #7623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birmingham View Post
New plans for Huntingdon Industrial Estate

A new planning application has been submitted to Tower Hamlets Council by Londonewcastle, for a 14 storey tower at the Huntingdon Industrial Estate site. The application follows previous plans on the site for a 25 storey tower (which we blogged about here) that was met with much local opposition, with the scheme being referred to as an ‘alien’ proposal. The new plans see the tower down scaled to 14 storeys with a reduction of 38 residential units. The switch from Amanda Levete Architects to Robin Partington Architects have also seen the design of the building drastically changing from the controversial twisting tower design to a more subdued design as shown below. The new proposals will provide 78 residential units, 69 for private sale and 9 units dedicated to affordable housing. The scheme will also provide 1,946 sq m gross of commercial space, including office and retail as well as car and cycle parking. The planning consultant is DP9.

New design




Old design

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Originally Posted by deckard_6 View Post
This construction frenzy should be somehow controled by public authorities and London citizens and not only lead by private corporations looking for the greatest return on investment, otherwise the city would face serious problems related to gentrification and loss of heritage. One clear example of such heritage issue is the future replacement of the kind of neo-brutalist building right east from Southwark's shunting yard, which in my opinion is a real jewel of this architectural style, with a boxy highrise of the kind we find hundreds rising everywhere around the globe.
I agree that we should always be cautious, but London has some strict planning laws and safeguards. As an example, the proposal I quote above was changed from its original on the basis of local opposition. (And a wise decision, the new design is much more tasteful)
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Old August 12th, 2013, 02:34 PM   #7624
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Very very bad example. A minority group of local home owners with connections in the media who have gentrified the area by paying over the odds to buy into the marketing blurb of "creativity and edgy" and have the council running scared, helps result in a very dull block of bricks of over-priced apartments by a generic architecture firm preventing a young rising British architect from getting a valuable commission right next to another generic tower from a chain architecture firm on the other side of the road. A big detriment to architecture in London.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #7625
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Hi, SE9 i wish i had more time to look through all the previous pages but unfortunately i can't do that at the moment.

Here's an update of Riverlight project. Apologies if it has been posted before.

Official website: http://www.riverlightlondon.com/

image hosted on flickr


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Old August 12th, 2013, 04:53 PM   #7626
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No worries. That photo is from 2012.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #7627
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The rise of breweries in London. From seven in 2006 to over forty at present:


Financial Times - 11 August 2013
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Old August 12th, 2013, 10:00 PM   #7628
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Thames Tideway Tunnel | £4.1 billion ($6.3bn) new sewer network

Official website: http://www.thamestidewaytunnel.co.uk/

The Thames Tideway Tunnel scheme has been put to tender: Thames Water's tunnel vision is put out to tender

Project facts:

  • Cost: £4.1 billion
  • Length: 21.5 km
  • Depth: up to 66m
  • Diameter: 6.5m to 7.2m


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Old August 12th, 2013, 10:11 PM   #7629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard_6 View Post
This construction frenzy should be somehow controled by public authorities and London citizens and not only lead by private corporations looking for the greatest return on investment, otherwise the city would face serious problems related to gentrification and loss of heritage. One clear example of such heritage issue is the future replacement of the kind of neo-brutalist building right east from Southwark's shunting yard, which in my opinion is a real jewel of this architectural style, with a boxy highrise of the kind we find hundreds rising everywhere around the globe.
95% + of what is being replaced in London is largely poor postwar builds and empty brownfield land, very few 'heritage' buildings are being replaced. It is not a speculative frenzy, 100,000 people a year are moving to London, even with this frenzy there is nowhere near enough housing. People seem to forget London is around 600 sq miles, there are an awful lot of areas with fine Victorian stock that don't even make many of the pages on SSC.

London boroughs (public authorities )and the Mayors office do have their own plans for the city so its not a free for all. You can't just build what you want, most develops do run into trouble in the planning phase from local groups and other authorities.

As far as office construction is concerned London has always been an important Global destination for numerous industries hence the demand for office space. People who seem to suggest its all a speculative bubble obvious do not know how London works.The vast majority of developments are built by very large and established UK developers often with a JV partner from overseas these days. None of which are stupid enough to built empty units or offices. There is a fairly established property cycle that occurs in London with peaks and troughs, following the period from 2008 we are obviously going on an upward projectors, that will eventually slow down when there is a supply and demand mismatch, just as it always have.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:16 PM   #7630
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^Fair points, however, let's not pretend there are no problems. You just have to visit the Lost London thread to see all the great Victoriana that has been demolished in recent years. For example, this could never have happened in the city I live in, although of course there are things London does better than Helsinki.

Many people fail to realize the social change that is taking place in London. Most forumers just seem to celebrate the destruction of nasty old estates without realizing that the replacements, often new shiny high-rise buildings, though vastly improving the architectural face of London make the city a less socially mixed and democratic place to live. Central London is becoming more of a playground for the rich with sleek residential towers and corporate palaces.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:47 PM   #7631
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Sorry Bricks you ignorance shines through again i'm afraid. The West End has always been a place for the rich and there are still and will be plenty of pockets of council estates within it.

No one is saying there are not problems, adding 100,000 a year to the population while at the same time cutting and closing Police & Fire stations and attempting to close and merge hospitals and badly managed health trust, not to mention the chronic shortage of school places due to the increasing population is something that isn't debated here and most who frequent the world forums wouldn't care either.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:48 PM   #7632
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Yeah because clearly I was talking about the West End
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:56 PM   #7633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
^Fair points, however, let's not pretend there are no problems. You just have to visit the Lost London thread to see all the great Victoriana that has been demolished in recent years. For example, this could never have happened in the city I live in, although of course there are things London does better than Helsinki.

Many people fail to realize the social change that is taking place in London. Most forumers just seem to celebrate the destruction of nasty old estates without realizing that the replacements, often new shiny high-rise buildings, though vastly improving the architectural face of London make the city a less socially mixed and democratic place to live. Central London is becoming more of a playground for the rich with sleek residential towers and corporate palaces.
Those old estates are less socially mixed than the regeneration projects replacing them. At estates like the Ferrier and Aylesbury, they are replacing uniformly deprived areas with mixed income communities and a more varied demographic. I'm not sure how you can conclude that these areas are becoming less socially mixed. I have been observing these regenerations closely, and that is definitely not the case.

The shiny new highrise buildings you speak of are being built on brownfield land or replacing poor postwar architecture, as london lad stated. Canary Wharf? That replaced derelict dockland. Nine Elms? That's replacing land currently occupied by warehouses, sheds and a derelict power station. The towers in the City? They are replacing mediocre office buildings.

Finally, London has extensive measures in place with regard to conserving architecture. The grading system protects buildings of historic or architectural merit. Conservation areas protect the buildings and character of whole districts. The view management framework protects views of historic or aesthetic value. Thousands of buildings and dozens of square kilometres of London fall under these protections.

London is not a static city, and it must not lurch into becoming one. Completed in 1894, Tower Bridge was considered by some a "large, heritage-destroying structure" built distastefully close to the Tower of London, a fortress of immense historic value. Today, Tower Bridge is considered globally as an iconic structure. Thank goodness the planners of that day did not bow to the whim of misguided conservationists. There are parallels to the present.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:59 PM   #7634
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Mr Bricks makes a very good point. In the past one of the celebrated aspects of London life has been the ability for the rich and the poor to co-exist side by side within the same areas. Despite the many improvements and massive changes currently underway in London, this is one aspect that is massively threatened. Affordable housing is rarely affordable, the poor are being pushed further and further out into the suburbs, inner-city neighbourhoods are really just a preserve of the middle class now, and Central London is off limits unless you're a millionaire. I hope somehow the trend is reversed but I admit it doesn't seem likely.

For me it is one of the most important things for a great city that people of all different backgrounds and classes of society are able to mix and form a society. Unfortunately it is nothing new for this concept to die out though just looking at other cities like New York and Paris as examples, London seems to be going in a similar direction.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #7635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
Yeah because clearly I was talking about the West End
Where do you think the West End is then if its not in central London? Somehow I don't think those playgrounds of the Rich are in Catford, Illford, Croydon or Bromley. The West End is and always has been the playground of the Rich so nothing has changed there. Most of Central London has the poor in the numerous council estates and the well to do. It is the middle classes that have been pushed out.

People are largely being priced out of London for the simple reason that supply in no way matches demand. Adding 100k people a year and building capacity for barely a tenth of that ,coupled with very stupid government policies to give people access to finance for homes but not increasing the supply will obviously lead to even higher prices.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #7636
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It wasn't that long ago that Soho actually had a considerable size working class community. Other areas within central london such as Holborn, Farringdon and Southwark were also well integrated. I understand we have to be realistic of course but you can't say that nothing has changed.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #7637
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It wasn't long ago that Brixton and Hackney were considered no-go areas. London is a city constantly in flux.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #7638
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Yes SE9 constantly in flux absolutely correct it has been happening for hundreds of years as we all know it's nothing new. Go back to the Boundary Estate if you want to or even further back. No excuse. I grew up in Hackney wasn't aware it was a no-go area until the landed gentry deemed it so. A no-go area to them yes but a vibrant home for those who had grown up there. Not without its share of troubles, many of which still exist despite gentrification or have simply re-emerged elsewhere. I'd love to go back but it's not mine anymore different crowd times change you move on.

What are we doing existing in flux by the will of market forces not by our own choosing. You've seen the fantastic work undergone at Kidbrooke a great example of how to improve an urban environment. The measure of its success should be come back in 20 years have the same people, the same community continued to thrive and prosper, has the regeneration enabled them to better their lives or have they been forced further out for the cycle to repeat again. We start a project with a purpose of improvement and then later on find ourselves seeking excuses that justify its failure.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #7639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
Those old estates are less socially mixed than the regeneration projects replacing them. At estates like the Ferrier and Aylesbury, they are replacing uniformly deprived areas with mixed income communities and a more varied demographic. I'm not sure how you can conclude that these areas are becoming less socially mixed. I have been observing these regenerations closely, and that is definitely not the case.
The old estates are not socially mixed, partly because they were left to rot and became crime infested holes. Most of these estates were built in the post-war period to replace old slums and to make up for the loss of housing during the war. Hence, most of these places were filled with the poor and later with immigrants, however, we must remember that living conditions still improved massively during this time.

I wholeheartedly agree that they need to be cleaned up, renovated, demolished and rebuilt, however, we must never forget the social aspect of redevelopment and gentrification. Replacements are always posher than the old estates, often with little or not affordable housing, and even when nothing is demolished gentrification occurs. Old working class communities are spruced up and poor people priced out of the area.

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Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
The shiny new highrise buildings you speak of are being built on brownfield land or replacing poor postwar architecture, as london lad stated. Canary Wharf? That replaced derelict dockland. Nine Elms? That's replacing land currently occupied by warehouses, sheds and a derelict power station. The towers in the City? They are replacing mediocre office buildings.
"Poor postwar architecture" that happens to house lower middle class and working class Londoners. Again you ignore the social aspect. I am quite astonished that you picked Canary Wharf, as anyone who has any knowledge in urban studies would know that CW is a text book example of a highly problematic urban renewal project. The towers in the city I have no problem with as they are replacing office buildings and not housing. For example the massive redevelopment of Aldgate is very welcome. Nine Elms is problematic in the sense that it does not create that many new homes in relation to the vastness of the area. And somehow I'm imagining the apartments in those towers are not going to be cheap.

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Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
Finally, London has extensive measures in place with regard to conserving architecture. The grading system protects buildings of historic or architectural merit. Conservation areas protect the buildings and character of whole districts. The view management framework protects views of historic or aesthetic value. Thousands of buildings and dozens of square kilometres of London fall under these protections.
If it weren't for the grading system and sight lines a whole lot more would now have been destroyed. However, that doesn't mean that I'm a fan of conservatism or English Heritage. EH are often useless in the way they care for silly sight lines, stand in the way of beautiful buildings like the Shard and fail to protect the heritage that is actually in danger.

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London is not a static city, and it must not lurch into becoming one. Completed in 1894, Tower Bridge was considered by some a "large, heritage-destroying structure" built distastefully close to the Tower of London, a fortress of immense historic value. Today, Tower Bridge is considered globally as an iconic structure. Thank goodness the planners of that day did not bow to the whim of misguided conservationists. There are parallels to the present.
Ah the classic argument. Tearing down a city's housing stock every 50 years or so does not equal progress, in many ways it's a sign of indifference and disrespect. Many cities (including my own) have changed massively in the past 20 years without a single old building being lost. I agree with you that London is not a static city and that it is therefore very exciting and interesting, however, this has nothing to do with the recklessness of some the developers in the city. I think London's pulse comes from its people, its history and its diversity.

Re Tower Bridge the same can be said for most grand land mark buildings around Europe, for example St Paul's and the Eiffel Tower-.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
Where do you think the West End is then if its not in central London?
Yes, but there are other places in central/inner London. I am not saying that anyone should be able to live in a massive house in Kensington, but the way things are going now in a couple of decades the East End will be just as posh, and the poor and middle class will again have to move.

Historically even the West End had pockets of poverty, sometimes extreme poverty. One of London's most notorious slums, Devil's Acre was located in Westminster but was later replaced with a Peabody estate sharing the fate of many London slums. St Giles and Covent Garden were also once bad areas. If you like to celebrate the "tradition of reinvention" you might want to appreciate the fact that historically London has always been a very socially mixed city and that although conditions in some parts of the city have been appalling great care has been taken to improve the condition of the poor. Since the 1980s this kind of thinking seems to have been lost and replaced with the principles of competition and profit, and this is a global phenomenon.

Last edited by Mr Bricks; August 13th, 2013 at 01:33 AM.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #7640
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Yes SE9 constantly in flux absolutely correct it has been happening for hundreds of years as we all know it's nothing new. Go back to the Boundary Estate if you want to or even further back. No excuse. I grew up in Hackney wasn't aware it was a no-go area until the landed gentry deemed it so. A no-go area to them yes but a vibrant home for those who had grown up there. Not without its share of troubles, many of which still exist despite gentrification or have simply re-emerged elsewhere. I'd love to go back but it's not mine anymore different crowd times change you move on.

What are we doing existing in flux by the will of market forces not by our own choosing. You've seen the fantastic work undergone at Kidbrooke a great example of how to improve an urban environment. The measure of its success should be come back in 20 years have the same people, the same community continued to thrive and prosper, has the regeneration enabled them to better their lives or have they been forced further out for the cycle to repeat again. We start a project with a purpose of improvement and then later on find ourselves seeking excuses that justify its failure.
I was countering the false assertion that the estate demolitions in this city are resulting in less socially mixed places.

The wider point that the character of the city is changing is true, but when was it ever not. In the 19th and early 20th century, Elephant and Castle was considered the Piccadilly Circus of the south. For much of the 20th century, it was one of the most sorry and depressed corners of south London. Now it's in another period of transition. My point is that we can't speak as if it's a new or unexpected phenomenon.

I can't speak for Holborn or Farringdon as they are not my 'areas of expertise', but how is a place like Southwark not well integrated?
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