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Old April 2nd, 2014, 05:58 PM   #9721
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I think it's a pity they're turning the comely and once elegant City of London into a phallic crazy design contest.

Most of these towers would have a far better place at Canary Wharf. It'd also make a far more impressive and harmonic skyline. The Gherkin is to blame.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 06:52 PM   #9722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
I think it's a pity they're turning the comely and once elegant City of London into a phallic crazy design contest.

Most of these towers would have a far better place at Canary Wharf. It'd also make a far more impressive and harmonic skyline. The Gherkin is to blame.


It's called progress dude. No historic museum here. If you want that, the city you are looking for resides just over the English Channel.

This is how the Alpha++ cities go about their business.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:04 PM   #9723
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I'm all for progress mate. Look, I'm setting up research institutes in Britain.

But urban planning is about aesthetics and people's well-being, too. While I like the Gherkin, Pinnacle, Shard, the Leadenhall and others as solitaires, I don't think they work together too well. It looks messy and Moscow-esque in a bad way. It'd have worked better in the already upwards oriented and balancing environment of Canary Wharf.

While I'm aware London is trying to reinvent itself, I think it should claim the space outside the City to do so. A little portion of "Museum" feeling is perfectly justified there. Else it'll look like any other place soon.

Keep this in mind:



I'm not against modernist architecture in general, but you need to keep your identity.
Traditional buildings are as important an indication of identity as are language and ethnicity.

I'm glad there's the The Prince's Foundation for Building Community in London and the Traditional Architecture Group in Britain.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:10 PM   #9724
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Identity is built over time, the only reason St Pauls is seen as traditional is because it has been around for centuries. Perhaps people will be having the same conversation in 200 years time complaining about how people are ruining 'traditional' buildings like the Shard?
Sure they should be preserved but we should still continue building.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:17 PM   #9725
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England's tradition is rejecting tradition. At no point in the past thousand years has London not been on the forefront of architectural innovation. Our language is an amalgamation of five different languages. Our culture a cavalcade of assimilation and inheritance, from all over the world.

Cities and countries that 'keep their identity' will be left behind in the dust. Museums to their former glories.

If you want uniformity and a cohesive, conservative style of architecture, go to Barcelona. Or Paris. Or anywhere in Italy. If you want an orgy of chintzy excess, go to Dubai, or Shanghai. If you want to see what every city in Europe will look like in thirty years, you go to London today.

I think it's fair to say London says **** you to tradition on a daily basis. And that's why London is Important with a capital I, while Paris is merely important, in lower case.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:24 PM   #9726
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Quote:
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Our culture a cavalcade of assimilation and inheritance, from all over the world.
Don't tell this to UKIP's Paul Nuttall, he'll get upset.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:28 PM   #9727
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The main issue across the globe is that classical and traditional architecture dialects are widely neglected. That's what's killing the identity of contemporary metropolises. Sure you have to evolve and progress further, but at the cost of all cities looking the same? Why?

You can perfectly well blend traditionalist and modernist architecture accents, as long as it balances and harmonizes. Modernism never should become the dominant appearance of the very heart of any city. Else you get a Brasilia, Canberra, Dubai or Shenzhen.

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Identity is built over time, the only reason St Pauls is seen as traditional is because it has been around for centuries.
Imagine St. Pauls was a brutalist concrete monster. Or the Parliament incl. Elizabeth Tower / Big Ben. Or the Tower Bridge. Or the Tower. Ah well, you get it...

St Pauls is a masterpiece of architecture because it's perfecting classical proportions in sacral construction. No modernist church or cathedral could ever achieve a grandeur that is quite on par.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:40 PM   #9728
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These guys are pretty good actually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Cl...rchitecture#UK
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:41 PM   #9729
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Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
If you want to see what every city in Europe will look like in thirty years, you go to London today.
That's not only an ignorant and petty statement to make, but also a very frightening dystopia.
No thanks to the future then.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:50 PM   #9730
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There's some pretty good new classical architects from Britain, and especially operating in and from London btw.

Here's a selection. Of course there are a lot more, see here. Actually England/Britain is on the forefront of classical architecture in the 21st century. And I hope they'll continue to innovate and get more jobs done throughout the world, England and London.

It's much needed input to balance out with contemporary modernist architecture.
Have a look at the wonderful 1987 Richmond Riverside by Driehaus Prize winner Quinlan Terry for example.
Try to be nearly as successful with bland concrete boxes.

This is making a huge profit, financially, aesthetically and for urban life:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._Sept_2008.jpg
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 07:52 PM   #9731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
The main issue across the globe is that classical and traditional architecture dialects are widely neglected. That's what's killing the identity of contemporary metropolises. Sure you have to evolve and progress further, but at the cost of all cities looking the same? Why?

You can perfectly well blend traditionalist and modernist architecture accents, as long as it balances and harmonizes. Modernism never should become the dominant appearance of the very heart of any city. Else you get a Brasilia, Canberra, Dubai or Shenzhen.


Imagine St. Pauls was a brutalist concrete monster. Or the Parliament incl. Elizabeth Tower / Big Ben. Or the Tower Bridge. Or the Tower. Ah well, you get it...

St Pauls is a masterpiece of architecture because it's perfecting classical proportions in sacral construction. No modernist church or cathedral could ever achieve a grandeur that is quite on par.


To be honest erbse, and I respect you, you have a good head on your shoulders and for a German you're rather humble too which is refreshing.

But I think your reaction is a bit knee jerk here.

London isn't putting things up all over the shop, it is keeping most construction of high rise buildings in clusters… in areas with little architectural value… see Vauxhall for example…. there's nothing there, show me a picture of Vauxhall from the waterfront and it could be anywhere… that will be changing very soon. This is what happened in Canary Wharf and Greenwich peninsular.

The only area of London that has large scale skyscraper construction in a sensitive architectural area is the buildings in the City of London… hence the unique and classy designs of the buildings there… and if you think this is ugly? Then you are a mad German to boot!



People want to live in city centres… the whole point of cities is the closeness and accessibility for everyone to everything.

Sticking stuff on the peripheries of the city… like La Defense for example… means the rest of the city is made redundant to those workers.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:03 PM   #9732
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You're making a good point and you're right.

The question is: what are the London City towers doing to the average Londoner or visitor, if any? How are these increasing closeness and accessibility for everyone to everything? They may increase traffic there even further to crazy levels indeed. Bursting streets and tubes, full of wannabe brokers and loads of wind bags who don't contribute anything substantial.
It's just financial bubbles that are blown and bursted there, after all.

I think we're beyond the post-war thinking that you'd need to create a skyscraper CBD right in your city's heart to be successful as a city. American cities are just putting the wheel of history into reverse and reject this as their biggest failure in urban planning. While European cities just seem to repeat it. We should learn from failures of others.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:07 PM   #9733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
That's not only an ignorant and petty statement to make, but also a very frightening dystopia.
No thanks to the future then.
Not a problem. You're welcome to the past. We don't need it anymore, you can have it all.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:10 PM   #9734
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The past gives you an identity and the future holds the promise of fulfillment in whatever form.

Tradition should never be in the way of mental progress and vice versa. We need to understand where we come from, what we have achieved and we need to respect and cultivate it. To be able to look forward and reinvent ourselves. That's what made Europe great. And London, too.

London is loved across the globe primarily and foremost for its traditions.


Everyone read asap:

The Ten Principles of Intelligent Urbanism
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:17 PM   #9735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
You're making a good point and you're right.

The question is: what are the London City towers doing to the average Londoner or visitor, if any? How are these increasing closeness and accessibility for everyone to everything? They may increase traffic there even further to crazy levels indeed. Bursting streets and tubes, full of wannabe brokers and loads of wind bags who don't contribute anything substantial.
It's just financial bubbles that are blown and bursted there, after all.

I think we're beyond the post-war thinking that you'd need to create a skyscraper CBD right in your city's heart to be successful as a city. American cities are just putting the wheel of history into reverse and reject this as their biggest failure in urban planning. While European cities just seem to repeat it. We should learn from failures of others.


The City of London is unique though… it has its own governance, its own laws, its own mayor the Lord Mayor of London.. even the Queen must be granted permission by the Lord Mayor to enter the City where she will bow before entering. It has always been a bit different there, since the Knights Templar set up there (hence the area of London called 'Temple' - the Temple tube station is below the Knights Templar church). It has been a global financial hub for as long as money flowed through Europe… the worlds most powerful banking families are all HQ'd there - Rothschilds for example.

You have to think of it a bit like the Vatican... its in London, but apart from it.

It is a corporate zone pure and simple. That is why they haven't built any residential towers there.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:17 PM   #9736
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Enough with the pseudo-philosophical crap please.

Maybe in a thousand years, when London is bristling with skyscrapers and still - as it has always been - a furnace of innovation and world-beating culture, we'll look to the continent, with their terracotta hovels and gothic-revival churches, and think 'hey, it's sad that we've lost all of that'. Maybe. But probably not.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:22 PM   #9737
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Quote:
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London is loved across the globe primarily and foremost for its traditions.
You are wrong.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:28 PM   #9738
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Well, to be honest there is a truth to what he says.

Britishness and the romance/grandeur of Imperialism and tradition is a huge reason why London overtook Paris to become the worlds most visited city. The Olympics obviously will have reminded people of this as tourist numbers have soared again since 2012.

Its what foreigners want to see. That's why the Japanese, South American, North American, European etc visitors are all taking pictures of Westminster Palace as a first port of call.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:34 PM   #9739
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You're right that the City is sort of an island within the metropolis. Though, it worked pretty well until today without all these messy towers. And isn't the Shard mostly empty still?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
You are wrong.
London just celebrated all its Britishness and traditional appeal with the 2012 Olympics. Don't tell me I'm wrong while I'm clearly right, as the Fox also points out.

Anyway, I just want to make you all aware of these concepts, you should definitely read up on it:

The Ten Principles of Intelligent Urbanism
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:45 PM   #9740
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You're right that the City is sort of an inland within the metropolis. Though, it worked pretty well until today without all these messy towers. And isn't the Shard mostly empty still?


The Shard isn't within the City's boundaries.

Read this about the City to understand a bit more about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London

The towers are necessary… business is booming.

Just think, whenever you put your cash card into a machine in the wall to get money out.. anywhere in Europe or the world… your transaction is being dealt with in either New York or London.
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