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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:45 PM   #9741
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Originally Posted by LondonFox View Post
like La Defense for example… means the rest of the city is made redundant to those workers.
La Défense is as peripheric to Paris as Canary Wharf is to London.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:52 PM   #9742
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as it has always been - a furnace of innovation and world-beating culture
C'mon. 1000 years ago it was a village. 500 years ago it was late in building an empire. 50 years ago it was the most polluted city in Europe, it Bruxellised its centre by replacing bombed buildings with awful ones, and was full with estates that are still being demolished.

It's currently booming, but let's not forget our past failures.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:52 PM   #9743
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Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
La Défense is as peripheric to Paris as Canary Wharf is to London.

But La Defense is Paris's sole purpose built business district… London has two already, and more to come. With the amount of new growth and regeneration in East London, defining the "centre" of London in the coming decades will be increasingly difficult.

There may even be two "centres of London" … each with vast amounts to see and do meaning that Canary Wharf residents and workers may never need or feel that they are so far from the historic core of London.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:54 PM   #9744
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But La Defense is Paris's sole purpose built business district… London has two already, and more to come. With the amount of new growth and regeneration in East London, defining the "centre" of London in the coming decades will be increasingly difficult.

There may even be two "centres of London" … each with vast amounts to see and do meaning that Canary Wharf residents and workers may never need or feel that they are so far from the historic core of London.
I was just imparting you a better sense of geographical accuracy.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:55 PM   #9745
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Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
C'mon. 1000 years ago it was a village. 500 years ago it was late in building an empire. 50 years ago it was the most polluted city in Europe, it Bruxellised its centre by replacing bombed buildings with awful ones, and was full with estates that are still being demolished.

It's currently booming, but let's not forget our past failures.


Late yes… but the British Empire became by far the most powerful and largest Empire in human history…. so failure? non monsieur.

You're living in an Anglicised world now are you not.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:56 PM   #9746
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Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
La Défense is as peripheric to Paris as Canary Wharf is to London.
Indeed. The minuscule 2 million people Paris will be a thing of the past from 2016 on, anyway.

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Originally Posted by LondonFox View Post
The towers are necessary… business is booming.
London, indeed. But it just doesn't have to be the City. It's politically coerced to a great degree. I have to admit I'm scared by the way Britain ruled down its producing industry, allowed uncontrolled mass migration, and at all costs London relentlessly was made a tax, finance and real estate haven for the super-rich who will park their billions and never inhabit what they own. Not only residentials remain zombie-like, but more and more office estate as well.

This is just über-bad and only among the best visible results of what I just stated:

Inside 'Billionaires Row': London's rotting, derelict mansions worth £350m

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Old April 2nd, 2014, 08:58 PM   #9747
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I was just imparting you a better sense of geographical accuracy.


I'm aware of where La Defense is located.. I have been to Paris before… its a long way out and you feel disconnected from the rest of the city once there.

At least in London, you can get to Canary Wharf quickly by tube, fast river boat.. and soon the new Crossrail network.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:00 PM   #9748
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Originally Posted by erbse View Post

Imagine St. Pauls was a brutalist concrete monster. Or the Parliament incl. Elizabeth Tower / Big Ben. Or the Tower Bridge. Or the Tower. Ah well, you get it...

St Pauls is a masterpiece of architecture because it's perfecting classical proportions in sacral construction. No modernist church or cathedral could ever achieve a grandeur that is quite on par.
Surely the best bits of architecture are preserved from their respective periods?
The lesser examples are demolishes or replaced etc.
Sure neo-classical architecture is nice but can you use it to build skyscrapers?
London's new buildings are mostly confined to clusters, so I am not sure what you are complaining about?
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:01 PM   #9749
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Late yes… but the British Empire became by far the most powerful and largest Empire in human history…. so failure? non monsieur.

You're living in an Anglicised world now are you not.
Largest, yes. Most powerful, probably.

But late, as the UK is the country with the most territories in the UN Decolonization list.

And, if the UN were not a toothless organization, this would be enough for economic sanctions.

Anglicised world? Well, not me. I speak a decent amount of languages to be able to choose where to live and what to do in my life, rather than being forced to stay within the most materialistic countries.

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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:04 PM   #9750
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I'm aware of where La Defense is located.. I have been to Paris before… its a long way out and you feel disconnected from the rest of the city once there.

At least in London, you can get to Canary Wharf quickly by tube, fast river boat.. and soon the new Crossrail network.
The distance is the same from Tottenham Court Road tube to Canary Wharf.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:05 PM   #9751
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I have to admit I'm scared by the way Britain ruled down its producing industry, allowed mass migration, and at all costs London relentlessly was made a tax, finance and real estate haven for the super-rich who will park their billions and never inhabit what they own. Not only residentials remain zombie-like, but more and more office estate as well.

This is just über-bad and only among the best visible results of what I just stated:

Inside 'Billionaires Row': London's rotting, derelict mansions worth £350m


Eventually these places get rebuilt and renovated. There's always a rich person looking to restore property in the UK.

For every horror story you find a fairy tail… I'm not sure if you watch 'Grand Designs' on TV… but here's an example of private investors transforming derelict English heritage into fully restored residence.

It's not in London granted, but I could find you a grand design episode that is.

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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:14 PM   #9752
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The distance is the same from Tottenham Court Road tube to Canary Wharf.

That's what Cross-Rail is for.

Once complete, Tottenham Court Road to Canary Wharf will be a mere 12 minute journey.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:15 PM   #9753
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London is loved across the globe primarily and foremost for its traditions.
Most cities are. Shenzhen (no offence meant) has plenty of soaring skyscrapers, its economy is booming, and it's an ugly city.

People generally don't like living in ugly cities, and even less like visiting them.

I'm not saying London is ugly now, but it needs not to lose its character.

Otherwise people will only visit Barcelona, Krakow, Rome, Amsterdam, Nürnberg and the like. There's a reason why Europe is the most visited continent in the world.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:17 PM   #9754
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That's what Cross-Rail is for.

Once complete, Tottenham Court Road to Canary Wharf will be a mere 12 minute journey.
As you certainly know, the first Crossrail line is directly modelled on the RER A. I think there's a direct comparison to the two realities you were comparing.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:24 PM   #9755
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Sure neo-classical architecture is nice but can you use it to build skyscrapers?
Not sure if you're serious. Read and look on skyscraper history for gazillions of reference. With many successful reattempts during the postmodern period, such as Wells Fargo, BoACC or Messeturm.
I'm all rooting for a continuation of Art Deco through the 21st century btw, especially in skyscraper design. It's the real and authentic architecture language of refined skyscrapers. There's some really interesting recent examples, such as Parkview Square in Singapore and the mighty 220 Central Park South in NYC.

And please don't forget about your mightily wonderful 1937 Senate House of the University of London:


Senate House, Bloomsbury, London - Location of Batman Begins & The Dark Knight von Craig Grobler auf Flickr

More: https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Sen...House%20London

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London's new buildings are mostly confined to clusters, so I am not sure what you are complaining about?
Clusters are fine. You'd have a bigger and better cluster if London would stick to fewer areas though. And I'm especially afraid the City itself is losing out much on its appeal with the global style towers crying for attention all around.

I think some sort of official planning departure/commission for the skyline development of London would certainly help.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:33 PM   #9756
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^Not really what I had in mind, I don't think classical architecture translates, in general, to skyscrapers which are needed atm.
Besides saying that modern buildings ruin an area is just your own personal bias.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:40 PM   #9757
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Well, to be honest there is a truth to what he says.

Britishness and the romance/grandeur of Imperialism and tradition is a huge reason why London overtook Paris to become the worlds most visited city. The Olympics obviously will have reminded people of this as tourist numbers have soared again since 2012.

Its what foreigners want to see. That's why the Japanese, South American, North American, European etc visitors are all taking pictures of Westminster Palace as a first port of call.
I suppose Vegas is the most visited city.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:43 PM   #9758
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No it has been Paris for a long time but London came top last year Vagas is like 5th or 6th. Actually last year Vagas didn't even appear in the top ten.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:51 PM   #9759
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Vegas got 36 million tourists in 2013, London around 25 million!
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 09:52 PM   #9760
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Besides saying that modern buildings ruin an area is just your own personal bias.
History is what makes our cities. That's why Berlin became the 3rd most visited city of Europe already, after Paris and London.
A city only looking up to the future, forgetting about history and constantly trying to generate an image of itself is as interesting as a boardwalk. Canberra, Shenzhen and Brasilia might be a visually imposing glimpse at once, but you don't want to stay there forever I guess.

It's by no means a personal bias that modernist buildings ruin historical ensembles. These are mostly build to contrast classical architecture. It can look good, but most of the time it's on the border to destroy the vibe of an area.
Just think of Tour Montparnasse, it's an utter mess to its surroundings and created an uprise against skyscraper construction and modernist architecture in the very center of Paris. And I'm glad they keep up with it.

Of course there's far worse examples, even in London (oh boy and oh boy), just picked a very prominent one.
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