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Old April 2nd, 2014, 10:01 PM   #9761
gehenaus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
History is what makes our cities. That's why Berlin became the 3rd most visited city of Europe already, after Paris and London.
A city only looking up to the future, forgetting about history and constantly trying to generate an image of itself is as interesting as a boardwalk. Canberra, Shenzhen and Brasilia might be a visually imposing glimpse at once, but you don't want to stay there forever I guess.

It's by no means a personal bias that modernist buildings ruin historical ensembles. These are mostly build to contrast classical architecture. It can look good, but most of the time it's on the border to destroy the vibe of an area.
Just think of Tour Montparnasse, it's an utter mess to its surroundings and created an uprise against skyscraper construction and modernist architecture in the very center of Paris. And I'm glad they keep up with it.

Of course there's far worse examples, even in London (oh boy and oh boy), just picked a very prominent one.
Well I quite like the contrast between old and new. Brasilia is a purpose built city so it doesn't have any history. I'd agree with you if all the old buildings were being demolished, rather than simply having modernist buildings built alongside them.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 10:14 PM   #9762
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Thimphu of Bhutan is a quite recent purpose-built city, too. Just compare it to modernist dead-end Brasilia and Canberra and see what works.

Traditional architecture is all about harmony.
That's why the traditionally grown and mostly uninterrupted centers of Paris, Florence, Regensburg, Venice, Amsterdam, Krakow, Prague, Dubrovnik, Quito, Havana, Sanaa, Stralsund etc. all are UNESCO World Heritage and excessively loved by people from around the world.

And the center of London is not. I know you're proud of the progressiveness and modern look of the City, but please also don't forget where London is coming from. It could be a World Heritage city today as well. Whether you're glad it's not is up to you.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 10:24 PM   #9763
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Not sure what the last few pages are about. Unless your a lover of pretty poor post war architecture or long derelict sites I'm not sure what people are going to miss with the skyscrapers that are replacing them.

Londons population is growing at 100,000 a year with a predicted population of 10 million by 2030. These people have to live and work somewhere so building some tall buildings amongst it all isn't going to do any harm. Besides the vast majority of building going on in London is low after medium rise (below ten floors).
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 10:25 PM   #9764
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Vegas got 36 million tourists in 2013, London around 25 million!

Not entirely sure where your figures are from but a quick search on the Internet from many sources, global sources, put London and Paris firmly at the top for international tourists.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 10:40 PM   #9765
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Originally Posted by london lad View Post
Londons population is growing at 100,000 a year with a predicted population of 10 million by 2030. These people have to live and work somewhere so building some tall buildings amongst it all isn't going to do any harm. Besides the vast majority of building going on in London is low after medium rise (below ten floors).
That's why it certainly won't harm London to preserve some microscopical islands of tradition. It'll only contribute to the city's appeal and a bright future.

That's all I want to achieve here. For London to keep what makes it special among all those global uniform cities. This or this certainly isn't what London should aspire to by any means. London is so much more refined than all those bland random megacities looking for a place in this world by erecting garish freaking towers.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 10:52 PM   #9766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Thimphu of Bhutan is a quite recent purpose-built city, too. Just compare it to modernist dead-end Brasilia and Canberra and see what works.

Traditional architecture is all about harmony.
That's why the traditionally grown and mostly uninterrupted centers of Paris, Florence, Regensburg, Venice, Amsterdam, Krakow, Prague, Dubrovnik, Quito, Havana, Sanaa, Stralsund etc. all are UNESCO World Heritage and excessively loved by people from around the world.

And the center of London is not. I know you're proud of the progressiveness and modern look of the City, but please also don't forget where London is coming from. It could be a World Heritage city today as well. Whether you're glad it's not is up to you.
You need to do a little more research into UNESCO world heritage sites, London has 4, I think that is plenty!
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 10:55 PM   #9767
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And you Sir need to do a little more research on how to read carefully.
I didn't write about built sites in general, but about
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traditionally grown and mostly uninterrupted centers...
Berlin has 3 World Heritage Sites too, that alone sadly doesn't give it a harmonious old town core. While Warsaw was also almost completely levelled in WW2, it rebuilt its old town. And guess what, it's UNESCO heritage nowadays. And it has a pretty dense cluster of skyscrapers right next to it that make a good skyline. That's how to do it right!

Just for some inspiration:

Warsaw skyscrapers von Liwnik auf Flickr
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 11:10 PM   #9768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
That's why it certainly won't harm London to preserve some microscopical islands of tradition. It'll only contribute to the city's appeal and a bright future.

That's all I want to achieve here. For London to keep what makes it special among all those global uniform cities. This or this certainly isn't what London should aspire to by any means. London is so much more refined than all those bland random megacities looking for a place in this world by erecting garish freaking towers.
I am not sure what you are getting at. There are huge swathes of the city untouched and they aren't going anywhere. Somewhere like Chelsea or Mayfair are going to look like they do in decades to come there is nothing wrong with building towers across a city of over 600 sq miles. Just because you build skyscrapers does not mean you are copying dubai. London can comfortably exist with buildings of all sizes and styles without losing any of its character.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 11:20 PM   #9769
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England's tradition is rejecting tradition. At no point in the past thousand years has London not been on the forefront of architectural innovation. Our language is an amalgamation of five different languages. Our culture a cavalcade of assimilation and inheritance, from all over the world.

Cities and countries that 'keep their identity' will be left behind in the dust. Museums to their former glories.

If you want uniformity and a cohesive, conservative style of architecture, go to Barcelona. Or Paris. Or anywhere in Italy. If you want an orgy of chintzy excess, go to Dubai, or Shanghai. If you want to see what every city in Europe will look like in thirty years, you go to London today.

I think it's fair to say London says **** you to tradition on a daily basis. And that's why London is Important with a capital I, while Paris is merely important, in lower case.
I'd slow down with the self-congratulation. London now arguably has some of the most innovative architecture anywhere, but there was a large chunk of the 20th century when architectural innovation was often stifled by rabid conservatism. Much 20th century London architecture was compromised, self-effacing, lest it 'offend' the old.
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 11:44 PM   #9770
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Yeah what was the awful computer building that used to be by the river? BT exchange?
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 11:52 PM   #9771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
And you Sir need to do a little more research on how to read carefully.
I didn't write about built sites in general, but about


Berlin has 3 World Heritage Sites too, that alone sadly doesn't give it a harmonious old town core. While Warsaw was also almost completely levelled in WW2, it rebuilt its old town. And guess what, it's UNESCO heritage nowadays. And it has a pretty dense cluster of skyscrapers right next to it that make a good skyline. That's how to do it right!

Just for some inspiration:

Warsaw skyscrapers von Liwnik auf Flickr
I'm struggling to understand what you are getting at?


It doesn't sound like you have ever been to London!
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Old April 2nd, 2014, 11:53 PM   #9772
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England's tradition is rejecting tradition..
Not really. Britain was considered progressive and liberal up until the late Victorian era after which the country has been seen as socially and politically conservative. In comparison France, with its so called "museum cities" (in which you can find truly spectacular modern architecture) is far more famous for rejecting tradition. The French have long enjoyed the avant garde, a good philosophical discussion and revolutionary thinking and acting. This is something the largely conservative anglosaxon world has always ridiculed France for. The anglosaxon world has always placed popular and corporate culture above the avant garde. Hence all the France- related jokes.

Building glass buildings does not equal progress. Most of these buildings serve a very conservative ideology.

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Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
Not a problem. You're welcome to the past. We don't need it anymore, you can have it all.
What an ignorant thing to say. History cannot be ignored, corrected or disconnected from the present. Fascists, utopian socialists and modernists believed otherwise and look where that got us all.
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 12:02 AM   #9773
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Stanhope signs JV with London council to build housing

Developer Stanhope has signed a deal with Hammersmith & Fulham Council in London to build hundreds of family homes for sale at discounted prices.

The pioneering plan will see hundreds and possibly thousands of council houses in west London, demolished and replaced with cheaper private homes for sale over the next 15 years.

The council and Stanhope will jointly take forward housing developments, beginning with building more than 300 homes on two council-owned sites.

Two council-owned vacant residential sites in Fulham at Watermeadow Court Estate and Edith Summerskill House will see 40% sold at a discounted price to help local people take their first steps onto the housing ladder.

One third of the discounted market sale housing would be reserved for families on incomes of up to £30,000pa, one third would be affordable to those with incomes of up to £40,000pa and the remainder would be affordable to those with incomes up to the Mayor of London’s official affordable housing limit of £80,000.

The borough’s cabinet member for housing, Cllr Andrew Johnson, said: “As well as delivering more than 100 low-cost-homes to buy, this partnership will also enable the council to ensure that the proceeds are ploughed back into similar schemes, estate improvements and reducing our £200m of housing debt.”

Critics of the joint venture disagree with the approach, saying that social housing should not be replaced by homes for market sale.

The council argued that the partnership with Stanhope will enable affordable house building on a scale that would not otherwise be possible.

A spokesman for the council said that the vast majority of existing social housing tenants will not be affected.

“However, where future opportunities to build new homes occur, the council is committed to ensuring that there is no net loss of existing social housing provision and that current secure council tenants will remain secure council tenants.”

He added that the council is working hard to secure more affordable homes so local people can fulfill their housing aspirations without leaving the borough.

More than 30 other councils have shown an interest in replicating the arrangement, according to Hammersmith & Fulham.
http://www.constructionenquirer.com/...build-housing/
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 12:19 AM   #9774
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Jesus, now Bricks is here... Suppose it was only a matter of time..
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 12:37 AM   #9775
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House prices: gap between London and the rest of the UK 'widest in 40 years'

The average home in London is worth more than twice the average home outside the capital - a difference approaching £200,000.

...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...-40-years.html
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 12:43 AM   #9776
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Not really. Britain was considered progressive and liberal up until the late Victorian era after which the country has been seen as socially and politically conservative. In comparison France, with its so called "museum cities" (in which you can find truly spectacular modern architecture) is far more famous for rejecting tradition. The French have long enjoyed the avant garde, a good philosophical discussion and revolutionary thinking and acting. This is something the largely conservative anglosaxon world has always ridiculed France for. The anglosaxon world has always placed popular and corporate culture above the avant garde. Hence all the France- related jokes.

Building glass buildings does not equal progress. Most of these buildings serve a very conservative ideology.



What an ignorant thing to say. History cannot be ignored, corrected or disconnected from the present. Fascists, utopian socialists and modernists believed otherwise and look where that got us all.
Don't worry, we don't forget history, lest we forget it was the Anglosaxon world (your terminology) that stood up and defeated fascism (you mentioned it!) in Europe.
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 12:54 AM   #9777
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Vegas got 36 million tourists in 2013, London around 25 million!
The US counts daytrippers, not just overnighters. That's why NYC claims 47 million visitors but doesn't claim to be the most visited in the world, merely the most visited in the US.

Places like Hong Kong would be hitting the 70 million mark with daytrippers, London, (not commuters) goes up to a whopping 150-60 million.

The real most visited cities (overnighting) are Greater Paris (Paris normally only counts those visiting the central intramuros districts) - 44 million, or Kyoto 40-50 million. By comparison London is third with 34 million, but if including daytrippers would probably come up at top - an abnormal amount of Britons visit the capital on daytrips due to the relatively cheap and accessible travel links but exorbitant price of accommodation.

In terms of international visitors it's a toss up between - officially - London and Bangkok with 15-16 million each year, but unofficially iot would be greater Paris that pips both with 17 million.
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 01:03 AM   #9778
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What is it with the flag waving on this thread? Seriously, some people on here have gone past healthy enthusiasm and straight into ugly jingoism; only seeing London through rose-tinted glasses. It's like I've walked into a UKIP committee meeting.

While I agree that the new skyscrapers in the City are better than what they have replaced, and I don't see quite how that is ignoring/destroying our past. I really don't see the need for the hyperbolic and sometimes insulting comments to anyone disagreeing. Talking about London only in superlative terms is silly. I can't be the only person here that finds this kind-of nationalism just downright cringe-worthy? Not everything is a competition, guys. Calm down.
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 01:14 AM   #9779
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Healthy competition is necessary for progress. Labour would tell you otherwise... Their mantra of 'everyone's a winner' is what has hurt the UK so profoundly. It turned many people into useless apathetics.
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Old April 3rd, 2014, 01:29 AM   #9780
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Where exactly is the unfounded criticism to be found at?
I think at least I made my point very clear and differentiated. I love London, but it's in danger of losing part of its appeal at least in my eyes.

Btw, feel free to go to the Berlin thread and check its current projects. There's a lot to mock, but also loads to love. Just like with London's current projects. Still it's so different.
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