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Old April 11th, 2014, 01:00 PM   #9961
tosic
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Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
What are the chances of City and Heathrow airports being closed and the Estuary project being approved?

This latter makes much sense to me and, besides T5, I hate Heathrow. (City is a comfortable choice but I feel no affection towards it)
The estuary project is stupid if you ask me. It will be the wrong side of London for the rest of the country to benefit, meaning people would have to travel trough London to get there. If this is approved then I can kind of see where people are coming from when the politicians have a London centric view.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 01:36 PM   #9962
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Not to mention the cost, environmental impact, impact on flight paths to Belgian / Dutch airspace, legal action from businesses on the M4 corridor who rely on Heathrow and so on.

The idea of having a brand spanking new hub airport fit for the 21st century is very appealing but the obstacles to its development are just too much, I think.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 01:53 PM   #9963
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We'll have vertical takeoffs soon anyway, so don't you worry guys.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 02:00 PM   #9964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tosic View Post
The estuary project is stupid if you ask me. It will be the wrong side of London for the rest of the country to benefit, meaning people would have to travel trough London to get there. If this is approved then I can kind of see where people are coming from when the politicians have a London centric view.
A London airport should be primarily for London's benefit and convenience. Same case for any other city.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty View Post
Not to mention the cost, environmental impact, impact on flight paths to Belgian / Dutch airspace, legal action from businesses on the M4 corridor who rely on Heathrow and so on.

The idea of having a brand spanking new hub airport fit for the 21st century is very appealing but the obstacles to its development are just too much, I think.
Yes that's about right. The airspace issues can be resolved, but the seemingly irresolvable obstacle is Heathrow-dependent business and its workforce.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 02:30 PM   #9965
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If the transport links are good then it doesn't matter where the airport is. Heathrow isn't exactly stellar for transport links (its train service was the slow underground link for most of its life) so probably makes people more knee-jerk about something having to be in the West and over-relying on the car. A brand new airport in the East will have dedicated high speed links, muting the argument somewhat.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 03:06 PM   #9966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub-urbanfox View Post
What exactly is British architecture?
LOL
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Old April 11th, 2014, 03:07 PM   #9967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
but the seemingly irresolvable obstacle is Heathrow-dependent business and its workforce.
Heathrow's land alone is probably worth billions.

If you wanted to demolish Heathrow altogether, rather than downscale or convert it or something, you could build an entirely new city on the site. Weren't there plans for that already?

I think an estuary airport is an inevitability. Just like HS2 was/is. Because it feeds into so many other projects and industries that stand to benefit, the lobbying for it to be pushed through will be insurmountable.

London City's days are numbered. While one thinktank proposing its closure is meaningless, it can easily be viewed as a turn of the tide in public opinion. Let's be honest, the only people who use LCY are wanker bankers, and as soon as Canary Wharf development becomes more profitable than the the price of convenience, they'll have no allegiance whatsoever and the thing will have no support.

I mean, while I'm normally dismissive of thinktank bullshit, their report is highly relevant and highly accurate. And reflective of public opinion (overwhelmingly opposed to any expansion of the airport anyway).

LCY has been proposing expansion/redevelopment since 2005. Nothing has come to fruition because everyone knows its importance is both diminishing and highly conditional on the rest of the London airport network.

I'd imagine someone in a room somewhere is already drawing up plans for a Nine Elms-esque mega development on the LCY site.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 03:36 PM   #9968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
A London airport should be primarily for London's benefit and convenience. Same case for any other city.




Yes that's about right. The airspace issues can be resolved, but the seemingly irresolvable obstacle is Heathrow-dependent business and its workforce.
You are completely right and London should be at the forefront because it is afterall a LONDON Airport. However, we can never ignore the fact that millions of people from the Midlands, West Country, and the North use Heathrow to fly to and from.

Personally, I would build the thames airport and make it the the key/largest airport for London/South East - however I would keep atleast one runway at Heathrow and make it more Gatwick-esk still keeping International Flights available from there.

At the end of the day, without Airlines agreeing to such a move, no deal can happen. Some major airlines would have to come together and support the move as well.

I cannot help but think of how quickly and efficiently Beijing built it's airport prior to 2008 Olympic Games. Was quite impressive...
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Old April 11th, 2014, 03:38 PM   #9969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
^ Well done there! Keep it up!


Once and for all: London is not living in a freaking bubble. A globalized world means globalized discussions on architecture and urbanism.
Of course you can attempt to do as you please. But don't expect the rest of the world not to care what happens in one of the most historic metropolises.

I appreciate London and most of its development a lot.
It's about future developments. I intend to participate in a global process that defines urbanism. London is on the forefront here. It just isn't true that I wouldn't be affected sitting somewhere else - London affects us all, just like NYC, Paris and Berlin do. Trends are set, new directions are taken. So I should be bothered, and the rest of the world too!

So I'll be glad to join future conversations and to read good arguments from your side. Cheers.
Cool story bro.

kthnxbai
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Old April 11th, 2014, 03:43 PM   #9970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post

A London airport should be primarily for London's benefit and convenience. Same case for any other city.

Yes that's about right. The airspace issues can be resolved, but the seemingly irresolvable obstacle is Heathrow-dependent business and its workforce.
Millions of people from around the UK use Heathrow, so but closing it you are punishing them just so Boris can have his airport. Heathrow is a London airport yea, but it's also a gateway to the rest of the UK and so I think it should be expanded.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 03:55 PM   #9971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tosic View Post
Millions of people from around the UK use Heathrow, so but closing it you are punishing them just so Boris can have his airport. Heathrow is a London airport yea, but it's also a gateway to the rest of the UK and so I think it should be expanded.
A new estuary airport would be more accessible to the rest of the country, despite being further east, as it would have all new transport links and no surrounding city hindering traffic.

I've flown out of Heathrow a fair number of times and no matter where you're coming from, it's an absolute bitch to navigate. Cramped and confusing doesn't even begin to describe it.

Plus, it's not like the estuary is tucked away somewhere remote. If you're saying Heathrow is a gateway to the whole of the UK, then people using it from the north have no more or less distance to travel. If anything, being able to ignore London altogether and scoot around through Essex/Surrey would alleviate a lot of problems.

Heathrow is simultaneously the world's best and worst airport. Imagine how good the estuary one will be without artificial constrictions and decades of haphazard construction holding it back. Conservative estimates of 150 million passengers? By far the biggest in the world? That's good for the entire country, and any questions of accessibility are moot when the benefits are so vast.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 04:26 PM   #9972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tosic View Post
Millions of people from around the UK use Heathrow, so but closing it you are punishing them just so Boris can have his airport. Heathrow is a London airport yea, but it's also a gateway to the rest of the UK and so I think it should be expanded.
That argument is much like arguing that Hong Kong shouldn't close Kai Tak and open Chek Lap Kok due to the difference in proximity.

There's many supportive of an airport east of London, the idea wasn't conceived by Boris Johnson.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 05:54 PM   #9973
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There are valid arguments on both sides - but I do prefer the idea of the Estuary Airport. It makes sense.

The sad thing is due to the politics in this country and all the other obstacles it is certainly going to be a long time till we see an Estuary Airport... The irony is that HS2 probably affects more people living day-to-day due to the location and disruption of the status quo and yet the Estuary Airport seems to have more opposition?
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Old April 11th, 2014, 06:01 PM   #9974
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A brand new airport could be opened in the west. This is not a geographical point.

I'm just suggesting that a new, big, integrated airport. Not necessarily a single terminal one, but at least one with terminals within walking distance (I'm mainly thinking about Bangkok but also, on a smaller scale, Rome).

The worst about Heathrow is the long time you take to move between terminals, and the absurdity of the transport system (Piccadilly line, Heathrow Connect, Heathrow Express... and now Crossrail, all serving different stations because there is no "central" one).

If a decent, large airport is built, the current Heathrow, City and Gatwick airports could be reasonably shut.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 06:50 PM   #9975
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At the very minimum, expansions to Heathrow and Gatwick will be shelved forever. Which - when the public consultation begins and we get to the crunch - is going to generate a lot of widespread support for a new airport from residents who would be affected.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 08:12 PM   #9976
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In my opinion, City airport should be closed and Heathrow transformed into a four runway hub airport. Its the right location and having a hub airport is so important for the countries economy.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 08:22 PM   #9977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoses View Post
Awesome. I think you've made 30 Marsh Wall too tall though. It's 185m, but it looks over 200m here.

Very good point TheMoses I forgot about that, I drew 30 Marsh when it was speculated it was 200m but I forgot to change it to 185m when the height was confirmed. I shall rectify that immediately, cheers
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Old April 11th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #9978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
A brand new airport could be opened in the west. This is not a geographical point.
No it couldn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
I'm just suggesting that a new, big, integrated airport. Not necessarily a single terminal one, but at least one with terminals within walking distance (I'm mainly thinking about Bangkok but also, on a smaller scale, Rome).
The Thames Hub Airport proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
The worst about Heathrow is the long time you take to move between terminals, and the absurdity of the transport system (Piccadilly line, Heathrow Connect, Heathrow Express... and now Crossrail, all serving different stations because there is no "central" one).
There is a central one. It's called Heathrow Central.

There are regular shuttles between Heathrow's terminals. You move from one to another in minutes.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 10:30 PM   #9979
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There are regular shuttles between Heathrow's terminals. You move from one to another in minutes.
In terms of experience, it's not as practical and impressive as walking down the Suvarnabhumi in all its glory.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 10:31 PM   #9980
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No it couldn't.
I meant that, coming from Europe, it makes no difference to me.
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