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Old January 22nd, 2015, 07:22 PM   #12621
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 07:30 PM   #12622
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Kings Court | Covent Garden WC2

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1682308

Official website: http://kingscourt-coventgarden.com/



Project facts
  • Address: 22-25 Floral Street and 31 King Street, London WC2
  • Developer: CapCo
  • Homes: 31
  • Retail space: 2,150m≤
  • Restaurant space: 990m≤







A progress report for the Kings Court scheme, posted by CapCo:

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Old January 22nd, 2015, 07:40 PM   #12623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekeiretsu View Post
It means shitty and dangerous enough that itís cheap, but not so shitty and dangerous that itís really shitty and dangerous. That magic sweet spot where itís just decent enough for our proverbial poor-but-Ďvibrantí artist to move in, but not decent enough that they canít afford it. The trouble is, that Ďsweet spotí is necessarily only something that exists transiently. An area passes through the sweet spot as itís in the process of getting better.

Thatís the problem with people lamenting Dalston of 2005, or whatever. They think Dalston 2015 is too gentrified, but Dalston 1995 was just poor and dangerous, you wouldnít have had the 2005 version without it being on a trajectory towards the 2015 version. Some people seem to think they can gentrify ďjust enoughĒ to reach that spot and then freeze it, and Iím not sure thatís possible, or has ever really happened anywhere.

Like I said, the cycles are self-regulating and self-influencing, the minute an area is the perfect level of gritty it becomes cool, and when it becomes cool, it becomes expensive. You canít preserve the cool-and-cheap in amber, unless you implemented some bizarre set of laws to completely eliminate the effect of market forces, and even then I donít see how it would really be possible.
I agree with your points, especially the one in bold.

Having a combination of an area that is cool, not really dangerous but not yet mainstream enough to appeal to the moneyed masses is necessarily a precarious arrangement.

Hyped neighborhoods come and then lose their "edge".

The difference is that the process is more accelerated now.

I work on real esate, the supply of money wanting to buy in is mind-blogging.

The latest talk is that Poplar will become hyper-gentrified due to is proximity to Canary Wharf (where I work) and good transportation.

The are is nice, let's see if it becomes a super-rich one as well.

It is about time Canary Whard pulls other areas to higher standards, from a market perspective.

And I read many people thought it was a doomed developed project back in the 1980s.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Cat View Post
Pubs: In the past decades so many have changed hands (much due to the government in the 80s onward forcing the sale of pubs from tied brewery ownership to hospitality/restaurant companies) and been renovated to become refitted practically as generic family restaurants, but without their old decor, elements or even names that once gave them so much local significance. Brighton and Hove used to be full of really great pubs, each different and yet wonderful, but today few survive which retain their wonderful character as I remember them in the late 70s and 80s. Today's younger generation have little real idea of what has been lost in this regard. The beers though have generally improved, but I miss many of these old pubs. I question why new owners spent small fortunes stripping out so much of their character and leaving behind so much banal decor.
Pubs face higher challenges.

The old system was a brewery cartel.

I read a detailed analysis on my job a report about the excessive number of pubs still opened in England and how 60% of them are not financially viable in the long-term.

There were 60.100 pubs in 2002 and 48.006 in 2013 (source)

I agree with that technical report in that pubs social role changed much.

Younger people (I'm on 25-30 age range myself) don't see pubs as a major socialization space.

There is now other venues and means of socializing.

So average age of pub patron is rising fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
Why were these areas like Dalston 1995 cheap in the first place? Because they were a result of being on the wrong side of town, of not being attractive places to live because they had nothing there. Will we ever see a cycle where the industry that left the buzzy East end Docklands of yesteryear causing it to become a backwater, ripe for redevelopment, happen again anywhere in London? Will one day the City and Canary Wharf become derelict areas if the finance industry goes the way of the dockers? Otherwise you're going to get to a point where there is nothing left to gentrify and regenerate, and then what happens?
A severe decline of the financial industry would on itself bring a major blow to London finances and GDP.

From a building stock viewpoint, the offices used by banks are not purpose-specific to banks.

They can have many other office-related uses.
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 09:35 PM   #12624
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Well that Kings Count looks to have a'lot of character to me.
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 11:29 PM   #12625
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City Momentum Index 2015
Jones Lang LaSalle (Chicago) | January 2015






Release: Tech Hubs Dominate Most Dynamic Cities List


Associated news articles

Reuters: Tech Hubs Dominate Most Dynamic Cities List

Property Week: London named most dynamic changing global city





Quote:
London 'most dynamic and fastest changing global city'
Jones Lang LaSalle | 22 January 2015

London is the most dynamic global city according to JLL’s latest City Momentum Index, due to its strong economic fundamentals, high levels of cross-border investment, positive outlook and reputation as a global tech hub.

JLL’s City Momentum Index ranks 120 global cities by factors including investment, property prices, and connectivity, research & development, technology and business start-ups.

The 2015 report found that cities identified as tech hubs were the most dynamic, with Boston, San Jose and San Francisco also appearing alongside London in the top 20 list.

London topped the list because of high scores for education infrastructure, innovation capability, the number of high-tech companies and projected office and retail rental growth.

Other trends identified in the research include the buoyancy of Chinese cities, with seven appearing in the global top tier due to continued expansion of its domestic market and middle class population. While continental European cities were once again absent from the top 20, cities in India and Sub-Saharan Africa were for the first time represented in the top 20 due to the robust demand for office space from technology companies in Bangalore and expanding Multinational Corporations in Nairobi.
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 11:30 PM   #12626
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Chelsea Barracks | Westminster SW1

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=577494

Official website: http://www.chelseabarrackspartnership.com/



Project facts
  • Address: Chelsea Barracks, Chelsea Bridge Road, London SW1
  • Developer: Qatari Diar
  • Architect: Squire and Partners
  • Cost: £3 billion ($4.5bn)
  • Homes: 448



Plans for phase 2 have been approved by Westminster Council:







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Old January 23rd, 2015, 12:04 AM   #12627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london lad View Post
The argument that the old estates tried to serve the poor, newer developments dont is completely wrong.

Post War estates were built to house everyone in the population with the majority working/blue collar and middle classes. Having a council flat was an aspiration up to the late 70's. They were never meant to solely house the poor which is what has happened to most council estates from the 80's onwards as government policies as to who council was for changed. Its one reason why a lot of estates fell into a cycle of sink estates and deprivation.

What is happening now, as has been pointed out countless times are private developers are doing what they have always done and sell for the market rate ( this is largely defined by the usual demand V supply theory of to many people chasing to few goods).The main reason prices in London are going through the roof is the simple equation of adding 100k people to London's population ( as has been the case for at least the last decade) and then dividing it with, at the most optimistic 20,000 units built per year. Adding in this massive disparity between Supply and demand is the projection 100k will be added every year until at least 2030 with only 20k being built and it doesn't take a genius to work out what will happen to prices and why there is a lot more 'shiny' new developments being built. Funnyily enough, those agenda driven opinion writers choose to ignore this simple fact and blame everything but.

Again most of these 'shiny new ' developments are replacing pretty dire post war buildings, long neglected brown field sites and low grade industrial estates. Unless thats your thing no massive loss of character is being lost at all.

Public house building since the 80's has collapsed, where as private developers do have to provide affordable housing or an off site payment they do try as hard as they can to get around it. What is needed is a counterbalance to private development with a massive increase in public housing building. Councils are being held back by central government who won't allow them to borrow to build. Where they have done , they have to do so with private developers .Sometimes some local tenants are displaced but the aim to redevelop badly run down and inefficient council estates for greater density with a more mixed community rather than a monoculture. Councils need to ensure those displaced are adequately provided for and its when it goes wrong that certain parts of the media pipe out which makes it sound like its the norm when the opposite is the case.

For a city like London to go from something like 7m in 2000 to potentially 10m by 2030 within the same borders is inevitably going to change the city and be challenging. For those that know what 19070/80's and even 1990's London was like the change has been remarkable and vastly for the better.
Nothing you say in any way contradicts what I've said. What is your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Jest
This really depends on your taste
Indeed. The Miley Cyrus generations certainly prefers how it's now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Jest
I see minimal evidence of this.
Oh ffs, this can be seen all over Europe. Massive shopping malls and chain stores are popping up all over. It's called globalization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh
I think SE9 and London Lad summed up the debate brilliantly.
Of course you do, because you don't understand it and can't even defend your own arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh
Well you are fully entitled to have the opinion that I'm ignorant.
It's not an opinion. What you said was factually false. I didn't see the need to pick your argument apart as I didn't want to derail the thread.

If you don't understand the subject, don't go around posting things based on how you "feel".

Look. All I wanted to get across was for people to remember that the view held by many forumers here is very distorted or outright ignorant. There is a lot of good things going on in London at the moment. Fantastic buildings are being built, ugly ones are being torn down, brownfield land is being developed. The city is growing larger, denser and higher. All this is exciting. However, this can't be used as an argument to ignore the fact that there is a dark side to all this. That is all I wanted to highlight. No need to get all defensive about it. I accept both the good and the bad aspects. Some people here just need to take off those rose tinted glasses of theirs.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 12:37 AM   #12628
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After having visited Singapore I've become quite fond of shopping malls. They provide an attractive space where to shop, eat and drink (not to mention free wi-fi).
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 12:46 AM   #12629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
Look. All I wanted to get across was for people to remember that the view held by many forumers here is very distorted or outright ignorant. There is a lot of good things going on in London at the moment. Fantastic buildings are being built, ugly ones are being torn down, brownfield land is being developed. The city is growing larger, denser and higher. All this is exciting. However, this can't be used as an argument to ignore the fact that there is a dark side to all this. That is all I wanted to highlight. No need to get all defensive about it. I accept both the good and the bad aspects. Some people here just need to take off those rose tinted glasses of theirs.
Well said. Most of us probably feel this way, but choose to look the other way, because nobody wants to derail this thread. (Which somehow always happens anyway). But it's like this anywhere on ssc these days, people only focus on the individual projects and don't look at the wider consequences.

That having said, I do think it's better keep on topic since it's a construction thread, but still, people are getting too touchy these days.

Cheers
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 01:10 AM   #12630
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I can agree with your point on the "darkside" of these projects but your starting to turn this into a political forum, ie rich v poor rather than sticking to the point of the thread, Mr bricks.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 01:43 AM   #12631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groningen NL View Post
Well said. Most of us probably feel this way, but choose to look the other way, because nobody wants to derail this thread. (Which somehow always happens anyway). But it's like this anywhere on ssc these days, people only focus on the individual projects and don't look at the wider consequences.

That having said, I do think it's better keep on topic since it's a construction thread, but still, people are getting too touchy these days.

Cheers
Interesting that most out-of-towners feel this way about London.

Perhaps you're not aware that there are several threads in the London forum in which we discuss our city's demographics, gentrification, housing policy, real estate and so forth. So not only do we discuss individual projects, but the wider impact too.

Londoners are likely to remember what our city was like when it was regressing/stagnating. The gloom being written here about a growing, dynamic London is nothing compared to the gloom of what a stagnating London was like. I know what I'd rather have.

What I'd change is policy with regard to housebuilding, what constitutes affordable housing (etc). Other practical steps too like closing City Airport, building crossing(s) in the east, building Crossrail 2 and so on as a priority to maximise the wider development potential. What I wouldn't change is that the city is a growing, dynamic entity. Nor will I gloom monger on that basis, as the alternative is not better. The recurring argument in which 'shiny new developments' themselves are blamed for London's ills is weak.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 03:02 AM   #12632
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I've known London since the 1960s and I'd say, in aggregate, London's better now then it ever was.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 03:26 AM   #12633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majkelian View Post
jolly good


You gotta love a blurted "jolly good", written for no apparent reason!
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 02:23 PM   #12634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post


Of course you do, because you don't understand it and can't even defend your own arguments.



It's not an opinion. What you said was factually false. I didn't see the need to pick your argument apart as I didn't want to derail the thread.

If you don't understand the subject, don't go around posting things based on how you "feel".

Look. All I wanted to get across was for people to remember that the view held by many forumers here is very distorted or outright ignorant. There is a lot of good things going on in London at the moment. Fantastic buildings are being built, ugly ones are being torn down, brownfield land is being developed. The city is growing larger, denser and higher. All this is exciting. However, this can't be used as an argument to ignore the fact that there is a dark side to all this. That is all I wanted to highlight. No need to get all defensive about it. I accept both the good and the bad aspects. Some people here just need to take off those rose tinted glasses of theirs.
Okay my friend... my opinion was factually false. Whatever you say.

Furthermore, you are quite rude... there is nothing wrong with having an opinion or 'feeling' but you seem to have no respect for other peoples - regardless on whether you think they are factually wrong or right.

My family are generations of Londoners. I have seen the City grow and change - sometimes for better and indeed sometimes for worse. We all know there is a dark side to this... most of us live here {something you are failing to realise}. Every coin has two sides.


In all seriousness, thank you for the information and the concern given to London and it's people. Your messages have been well written, informative and haven't been wrong.

Let's just leave it there... and in future do not undermine how I feel about my City. I adore this City just as much as anyone else here.

Have a good weekend mate.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 02:24 PM   #12635
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haha DHL Helicopter is so awesome. Quite a good idea really.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 02:29 PM   #12636
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 02:32 PM   #12637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
I was trying to be polite and just move on.

Enjoy you weekend mate.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 02:45 PM   #12638
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Oh ffs, this can be seen all over Europe. Massive shopping malls and chain stores are popping up all over. It's called globalization.
I'm sorry, but you need to get better at staying within the parameters of your original argument so that it maintains coherence.

We were talking about Soho and central London, which contain undeniably one of the highest concentrations of interesting and high-qualty independent shops and restaurants in the world.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 03:35 PM   #12639
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Another gay bar being forced out of Soho.

#savetheyard

The Yard bar and restaurant in Rupert Street is fighting development plans to cover the hugely popular, picturesque and last remaining Victorian open stable yard in Soho and dig down to create a large new basement. The developer is also keen to build three new flats over the bar and an historic timber pitched roof would be lost.

The Yard, which is independently run, has been given just a week’s notice that Westminster City Council intends to give the plans approval at a committee meeting next Tuesday, 27 January. The Yard needs your support to help stop this development.

http://www.qxmagazine.com/blog-event/savetheyard/

As well as 'Koreatown' at Centre Point wiped out.

http://londonist.com/2015/01/centre-...-crossrail.php

Last edited by DarJoLe; January 23rd, 2015 at 03:44 PM.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 03:54 PM   #12640
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I went to one of the restaurants in "Koreatown" two days before they all closed down. Going to miss that place. Had many excellent meals there.
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