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Old January 25th, 2015, 04:19 PM   #12661
Infinite Jest
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I state x in the world thread. Which follows then is a torrent of quasi-xenophobic nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
No one has a problem with you criticising London. It is ridiculously obvious that London is filled with social problems, as are most cities, particularly ones of this size.

The problem is the inaccuracy of the criticisms:
[1] that central London was somehow magically affordable in the '90s (simply untrue);
[2] that "most" London social housing is being replaced with private flats and limited affordable housing (again, simply not true: most developments rehouse all of the social housing onsite; if not, they rehouse nearby within the borough, usually in brand new housing of unprecedented quality);
[3] that some kind of "Americanisation" is taking place in London, whereby international chains are squeezing out local businesses (the opposite is true, as local and independent brands have become the zeitgeist in London; not that there is anything wrong with international things per se);
[4] that Soho has "lost its character" (how well do you really know Soho? it's main attraction used to be sex, drugs, repulsive food, and seedy clubs; by contrast, it now offers a truly amazing spectrum of quality global cuisine at all price levels, as well as independent shops selling truly well-made products, and it is safer than ever, benefitting far more people than it used to); the Save Soho campaign is run by a bunch of hypocritical champagne socialists, it is an entirely political campaign, following the old & tedious left/right divide, and has no consideration for the practical interests of Londoners.

It's not xenophobic to say you can't really weigh in on how Soho has changed in the last 20 years. You simply have very limited experience of London. What you read or see online or in books is always filtered through a political agenda. You know that; you are far from stupid. That applies to both the positive and negative propaganda which surrounds London's latest gentrification wave.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 04:33 PM   #12662
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well hes been contributing here a lot longer than you. likes have only been available for about 15 months.
Sort of my point isnt it?
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Old January 25th, 2015, 04:56 PM   #12663
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The Tottenham Court Road/Gower Street improvements are a real game changer and thank god Camden Council have the guts to push this kind of thing through. This should be the kind of thinking coming from the very top down and rolled out across the whole of the West End and further over the next decade.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 05:06 PM   #12664
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This notion that Soho is a cosmopolitan paradise of fantastic food and glorious independent gift shops might well now be true - but for the times I have visited over the last year all I see is an abundance of bubble tea shops and pop up gourmet fast food outlets that last a few months then disappear without trace. Old Compton Street and its environs is a pale imitation of what it was and what it could have been and is now being invaded by Wasabis and endless Falafel shops of all the same safe clinical blandificated ilk.

"Soho's main attraction used to be sex, drugs, repulsive food, and seedy clubs" ...and that was the point. It was a complete and utter mad mash up of lost tourists stumbling up from Leicester Square, an undercurrent of international sex trade, gay boys and girls glittered up to the hilt, drag queens with the quickest tongues that would make any homophobe weary of even daring to breathe hatred, the chattering suburban middle classes tutting and dragging their children back to the safety of tourist Piccadilly Circus, crappy hot dogs from rusty vans on the corner, perverts of all ages eyeing up from the outskirts and sassy prostitutes looking for trade and every Saturday night it would be the most alive, smelly, noisy, colourful and ridiculous place I had ever seen in the UK and it was just downright rude, crude and absolutely fabulous.

That was what Soho was and always has been. Now it's turning into something like the food mall at Westfield on a wet Sunday afternoon. But it could be worse, it could be Fitzrovia.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 05:54 PM   #12665
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You are glamorising the sex trade, drug use and addiction, crime, and sex pests (and bad food). People complain about the dark side of gentrification, but what about the dark side of the old Soho? Sex slavery, people trafficking, sexual assault, harassment, rape, HIV and AIDS, drug-trafficking gangs, gang violence, crack-cocaine, heroin, overdose. It's not just the "chattering middle classes" who were excluded from Soho, most normal people were excluded, particularly the vast majority of women. It was very much a particular kind of young man's world.

I found Soho thrilling as a younger man, but I can't help but feel that a mature adult can't defend that lifestyle.

I acknowledge that it was important for gay culture at the time, but don't think gay culture has moved on since then? Being gay is no longer illicit, seedy, confined to dark basements and drug-fuelled parties. Being gay is now pretty much entirely subsumed into the realm of normal: marriage, kids, family days out. The average gay guy is now more likely to be shopping in the new Wholefoods in Soho than descending into one of its seedy basements. Indeed, I would argue that the evolution of gay culture is one of the driving factors behind the foodie/hipster paradise that Soho has become.

Perhaps you happen to be gay yourself and you pine after those younger and freer days nostalgically. That's completely understandable, but those are not legitimate grounds to preserve Soho in aspic.

I prefer great food culture, quality ingredients, ethical products, and a safe environment to what Soho used to be. Not that Soho doesn't have a good nightlife still. New places like the Box can still provide a regular dose of things weird and wonderful. And there are enough shitty basements, strip clubs, and brothels left if you desperately crave that.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 06:12 PM   #12666
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Blandification, samey, dull, however you dress it up London is becoming boring, unless you've got shitloads of cash.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 07:15 PM   #12667
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If you think London is dull, then you're just a boring person with no sense of adventure. Not the city's problem, but yours.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 07:24 PM   #12668
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read what hes saying. hes saying it is becoming dull. and hes right, everything hes said is true.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 07:35 PM   #12669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTOTHRILL View Post
read what hes saying. hes saying it is becoming dull. and hes right, everything hes said is true.
In your opinion....

It should be noted, of course, that it is a national past time to moan, especially about how things are changing and also to look back on the past with rose tinted spectacles.

London is becoming so dull, Darjeeling manages to post comment and upload photographs of London every single day, it must be so tedious.

Now, what was that quote about being tired of London?
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Old January 25th, 2015, 07:45 PM   #12670
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It's obviously a matter of taste and perception, but to me London in general, and Soho specifically, have improved a lot. One example: it wasn't long ago that the only Chinese food you could get in Soho was disgusting ersatz Cantonese food. Now you can get really authentic Sichuan, Hunan, Yunan, Tibetan, Xinjiang, Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Shanghai, Taiwan, Shandong, Beijing, and Mongolian food.

If prefer the thrills of cheap processed hotdogs from rusty vans, transvestite prostitutes with impressive blowjobs skills, and buying drugs which support the organised crime industry, well, that's your prerogative, but you can hardly take the moral high ground, stand on a soap box, and complain about the "seamy underbelly of gentrification".
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Old January 25th, 2015, 07:46 PM   #12671
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London is becoming so dull, Darjeeling manages to post comment and upload photographs of London every single day, it must be so tedious.
Nasty.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 08:18 PM   #12672
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The neighbourhood centres of south east London have never been so lively

Certainly on an upward trajectory down here.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 09:26 PM   #12673
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Half-trillion pound 'Thames City' would create new Southern Powerhouse
GLA Conservatives
25 January 2015


Quote:
  • Partner London and South-East to create “Thames City” and form third biggest urban economy in the world
  • New region would collaborate to build 40 new “garden suburbs” on disused brownfield sites
  • Crossrail 2, 3, 4… could be funded and built with new tax powers

London and the South East should join forces to build one of the world’s largest economies and lead Britain’s future growth, according to a new report by GLA Conservative Andrew Boff.

“Southern Powerhouse: True devolution for London and South East” urges the Government to devolve tax powers to a new ‘Thames City’ political body representing the shared goals of Greater London, Essex, Kent, Surrey, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, and Hertfordshire.

This body would co-ordinate the sizeable shared development pot; allowing for the large-scale projects needed to meet the growing gaps in housing and transport.

Andrew Boff, GLA Conservative Assembly Member and housing spokesman, said:

“A strong relationship between London and the South-East would be worth some half a trillion pounds to the UK economy. My research shows that London provides the surrounding regions with a substantial amount of their employment, and these skills are essential to London’s economic growth. We need to give people better transport between these regions, house them, and make sure opportunities are consistently growing. Giving these areas an equal say and new devolved powers would give the region what it needs, instead of what Parliament thinks it needs. In the past London has just swallowed up its surrounding regions, here is an alternative, a partnership where these areas retain their independence. More than anything else ‘Thames City’ would give the South-East a say in London’s growth.”
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Old January 26th, 2015, 10:23 AM   #12674
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Half-trillion pound 'Thames City' would create new Southern Powerhouse GLA Conservatives 25 January 2015
Or... We could just use the name London?

I loathe how calling the practise of building over our limited countryside is somehow supposed to become acceptable when dubbed 'garden cities'.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 11:24 AM   #12675
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Any 'Southern Powerhouse' type region should really take on the title of 'Greater London'.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 11:48 AM   #12676
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Hello SE9, may I just ask, is there anymore information regarding the "Half Trillion pound Thames City?" I've only found a few articles mentioning the proposals, all of which read similarly to the article you posted above. I wish to know more of the proposals, would you know of any article that goes into further detail about the proposal?

May I also just add, have you made a thread regarding this, in the London Forums?

It looks like, the Thames City proposal (The yellow ring) just eclipses the little town I live in, thus my concern and want 'to know more' (I have mixed opinions about the proposal, but i'll reserve them until I read in further depth.)
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Old January 26th, 2015, 11:55 AM   #12677
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Check the link provided.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 12:20 PM   #12678
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Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
Check the link provided.
Thank you.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 01:05 PM   #12679
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But then again, maybe I'll just add an inspirational quote by Samuel Johnson to my profile and just shut it from now on.

Let's move on.
haha another little dig at me. I'm always polite and friendly to you and you. I always respect your opinions regardless of whether I agree of them.

I think what people get annoyed at is not your opinions - but the way you go about expressing them. I've met toddlers with better manners than you I'm afraid.

There is literally no reason why you shouldn't have more manners and say things a little more softly. Of course; this is your choice.

Sorry for going off subject guys... I'm going to try and avoid these sort of debates in the future. It's a waste of time.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 01:23 PM   #12680
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Or... We could just use the name London?

I loathe how calling the practise of building over our limited countryside is somehow supposed to become acceptable when dubbed 'garden cities'.
The article does claim that this new development would be on "disused brownfield sites".

But what they mean by that, exactly, and whether there would be any creep into greenfield areas remains to be seen.
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