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Old February 5th, 2015, 10:01 PM   #12881
SE9
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German Gymnasium | King's Cross N1C

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=505188

Official website: http://www.kingscross.co.uk/german-gymnasium



Project facts
  • Address: 26 St Pancras Road, London N1C
  • Developer: D&D
  • Use: brasserie, bar and restaurant

Currently under redevelopment, the German Gymnasium will open this year as a restaurant complex operated by D&D London:





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Old February 5th, 2015, 10:19 PM   #12882
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Fitzroy Place | Fitzrovia W1

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=522120

Official website: http://www.fitzroyplace.com/



Address
  • Address: 19-21 Mortimer Street, London W1
  • Developer: Exemplar Properties
  • Architect: Lifschutz Davidson Sandilands
  • Office space: 28,800m²
  • Homes: 235



The courtyard at Fitzroy Place this week, photo by ING Media:

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Old February 5th, 2015, 10:56 PM   #12883
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Just read the last couple of pages ignited by some idiotic comment from a Seoulite who's obviously never visited.

Just some corrections I wanna pick up on, from both sides of the arguments:

1. London has historically been made up of wave upon wave of immigrants - but also wave upon wave of anglicisation. For example the Black population of London reached 20,000 in the 18th Century - but they intermarried and diluted away much of their genes, rather like how the North African soldiers from the Roman army did (or the Sephardic Jews before the periodic pogroms, the waves of Irish, the thousands of Bangladeshi lascars and Indian sepoys, the Victorian Chinatowns, the Romany gypsies, the French Huguenot refugees who some say still donated 50% of native Londoner's ancestry - the list goes on), and whose African genes are still healthily among northern English, notably Yorkshire. Although another wave came in the 19th Century they too had bred away by the 1920s - a 30 year period when London was more 'White British' than at any time in centuries (though if you read between the lines those identifying as White British often had other lineage a generation or two before - much like today's census trends).

The English (like almost every nation round the world - thanks to the age of empires, colonialism and present day globalisation) are a polyglot nation in terms of genes and DNA:






It's also fair to say the situation of 40% foreign born is now edging past the record set in medieval times, and London is truly at it's most multicultural.

Also I really do want to add - London has far more social justice for it's immigrants, far less division, and no ghettoes despite the majority being non-British, which is a contrast to other parts of the country, and most parts of the West. UK is one of the few countries where minorities (Black, Asian, Middle Eastern, East Asian, European) earn more than natives. This doesn't mean it's some kind of racial nirvana or that prejudice, racial tension (and notably casual racism, inverse racism and subconscious bias) doesn't exist in general culture - but it has got a better record than most, bucking the painful recent history.

UK's first Black mayor 1902, London's first Black mayor 1913, UK's first ethnic Jewish Prime Minister in 1868, and first Asian MP in 1892. History to be proud of (though the progroms and riots not so much).



Also 'White flight' a phenomenon seen in the States is entirely different in the UK. London periodically goes through 'White flight' (read: middle class), where people who have worked themselves up sell their exorbitantly priced London property for a much bigger place further afield. Witness how the Cockney accent has migrated to Essex, Kent and West of London (now called Estuary English), displacing their native accents as working class Cockneys sold on and moved in. What we're seeing today is the same pattern - the working classes reach middle class and sell on - but whose children will return back to the city lights after uni seeking employment and the wild life, and who will later follow their parents footsteps out after they've made it.

The current situation of 'White flight' is of course tendered by the same 'Jewish flight (who left the deprivation of the East End for the leafier burbs of Golders Green, and who have now sold out to the new Japanese community setting up there)', 'Asian flight' (Hindus and Sikhs are uncannily following on the heels of the Jewish community who they historically lived alongside), and 'Caribbean flight' (whose numbers have collapsed from a high of 700,000 in the SE region during the 1990s to a fraction of that today thanks to migration away from the city, anglicisation - such as identifying as 'Black British' on the census rather than 'Black Caribbean', and such high levels of intermarriage they're considered an endangered community despite their numbers). This is why the numbers of immigrants in the centre is rising sharply (read: the international elite buying up the millionaire homes), while offset by sharp rises of White migration into the former inner city ring that during the 1980s were poor immigrant communities, and the suburbs getting an even flow from both non native and native.

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Old February 5th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #12884
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Also don't forget either 'mixed race' is now the fastest growing ethnicity due to the high levels of intermarriage among British minorities -as mentioned before over 50 percent of Caribbeans, Europeans and East Asians, 30-40% among Africans despite the majority having newly arrived, and a third of South Asian relationships.


This is the future look of many of those communities with time, provided the intermarrying continues (not barred by centuries of legislation as in the US) and the majority of White British aren't struck down by an invasive disease (like smallpox or measles did to the New World). Their DNA may trace back to India, but outwardly they are so interbred they have the same genetic diversity as any native Briton; the Romany Gypsies:




Likewise from the other direction, this is what the far more recent colonial British community in India looks like today (now grown to over a million), complete with British names still, the English language as their first, the Christian religion and often British dress on occasion( even at the start one third of British soldiers took Indian wives during the Raj):



Political family:

MPs Denise, Barry, and Derek O' Brien of the BJP Party:



'Traditional dress' comes out at weddings, instead of the red and gold sari and modern Nehru suit:









Phew, sorry for the essay, just my 2 pennies.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 12:12 AM   #12885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post
But that is the essence of old London.

During the reign of Henry VIII, London was described as the world's centre of fashion. During Elizabeth's reign, London had 1/6th of the world's immigrants - meaning of all the people during that time that moved from one part of the world to another, 15% moved to London.

In the eighteenth century, London was the world's largest manufacturer of books in a language other than English, with enormous printers all along the south bank of the Thames. There were embroiderers from France, weavers from the Netherlands. Silk merchants from the far east, dyers from the low countries, gun-makers from Italy and Turkey. There was more opium being imported to London than any other city, and there were more languages spoken within its boundaries than at any other point in history - and that's true even to this day.

Even the name, London, was coined by a foreigner. It's history is one of multiculturalism and immigration. It's the world's melting pot, and whatever sense of 'old London' people have simply isn't a fair reflection on the city itself. There has never been a point in its entire history, stretching back 2000 years, where there weren't immigrants dominating the landscape. It's the best thing about London. It's what every city on Earth will be like in a couple of hundred years.

People talk about there being some huge change in the ethnic composition of the city in ...what? The last twenty years? But they weren't around for the Viking invasions, or the subsequent Danish settlements in the eighth century. Or the Swedes in the ninth. Or the Irish in the thirteenth. Or the huguenots in the sixteenth. The european jews in the seventeenth. The chinese in the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth. Or the west africans and caribbeans in the 1950s and 60s. There isn't a ten year period in the last two thousand years when London hasn't been infused with a new culture or a new set of immigrants. People talk of change as though it's something that happens to London, when in fact London itself is change, and always will be.
Come on..........you don't need to possess the observation skills of Sherlock Holmes to notice that what we are experiencing today is far beyond anything that London has experienced before (at least, since our island was last invaded in the 11th century) in terms of the ratio of native Brits to foreign born residents. There was no hyperbole in my earlier statement that one in two conversations that I now overhear around and about in London are in a foreign language. And no, I don't hang around tourist traps! For all the previous waves of immigration, things were nothing like this ten years ago. Nor a hundred years ago. Nor two hundred. Nor five hundred.

I welcome change. I love that our city is so multicultural. But there is and has always been a definable British character that prevails in our city and threads it all together. I just hope that we are careful not to relegate it to the role of bit part player.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 12:50 AM   #12886
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^read my posts, waves of immigration followed by waves of anglicisation. The nearest London had to today's multicultural make-up was of course Roman times, and much less known medieval times when well over a third hailed from abroad. But of course they intermarried away. The last great anglicisation 'wave' was very recent, as late as the 1940s Londoners identified themselves as over 90% 'native' (though their surnames would say otherwise). Noone knows what will happen in today's never ending wave, but unless 80% of native Brits move away or die off, it's very likely we'll see a mixed race future (and increasingly diluted with every generation in terms of ethnic look and culture). For London though, this may not be the case as people move out rather than stay, and the new constantly replace the old - the city may well become a propagator of renewed ethnicity for years and years to come.

I also do see British culture being strong still, especially with the high adoption of it by the second generation onwards, in language, education, traditions, cuisine, sport, cultural idioms etc. Contrast the record for France's second generation minorities by the 1990s (that adopted enforced 'melting pot' assimilation), of whom only 30% said they 'felt French', with their British counterparts (who at the time had adopted a laissez-faire 'multiculturalism' that failed), of whom 80%, like it or not 'felt British'. (So laissex faire was it then that this rate has actually fallen today, with the rise of anti-immigration politics and increasingly expected 'Britishness' in the media).

The old British stance actually stemmed from postwar policy - pretty racist in fact- whereby the minorities were housed separately in poor areas in a hope they'd develop separately, with freedom of religion, language and dress. Noone had to swear to a flag, wear Lindy Bop dresses or even learn English. The result within a generation was a complete opposite -a big mixing with the traditional working class. To the acclaim of both communities Britain (at least southern England) managed to buck the loss of culture enforced by assimilation, and the divisive forces promoted by multiculturalism, despite the riots, the far right parties and the initial poverty. Lesson of the day was: new communities are far more likely to warm to the native culture if theyre not forced to. And if not them, their kids will.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 12:51 AM   #12887
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Foreign-born is such an ambiguous term. The Mayor of London, the Queen's husband, the UKIP leader's wife (and so on) are foreign-born.

73% of London's population are British citizens. 88% EU citizens.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 12:53 AM   #12888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
Am I the only one who cracked up when reading this!?

Not because of the content but because of the grammar. "especially Islamic" got my laughing.

Atleast his English is 1000times better than my Korean!


In all seriousness I believe that it's a minority of people who are worried about immigration. London is the most multi-cultured place on earth and I think this is a truly positive thing.

actually I think Londoner very open mind for foreigners who can not speaking english well.
English inability is an object of ridicule? If someone Mockery your inability korean then what you feel? you so rudeness
if you support multi-cultured, then you should don't MOCKERY other people who don't speaking english very well like ME. UNDERSTAND?

Also Fortunately I can live well without ENGLISH.
Because Most Information Technology product, car, ship, semi conductor, smartphone, robot came from FAR EAST ASIA.
In Seoul everything changed with speed of light. So i have no time to learn english

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
London is a city established by southern Europeans, becoming an important port for international trade through the ages, once capital of a world-encompassing empire, now an international centre of finance, culture, media and so on.

It's an international city by nature, with its dynamism, diversity, cohesiveness and cosmopolitanism being amongst its greatest strengths. The few that insist otherwise would be wise to rethink their prejudice. If one has a personal preference for homogeneity then that's fine, however don't use it as the basis for ill-thought criticism of London's cosmopolitan nature.

The appropriate place for this discussion is The Demographics Thread in the London forum.

Ok I respect your opinions.
I am foreigner So i have no right to speak your city's future.
I admit it.
actually this argue begin from ME. So I don't want to this thread cover up with endless topic.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 01:55 AM   #12889
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I like the industrial looking buildings that get converted.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 01:56 AM   #12890
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Omg I can't even read this thread anymore.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 02:27 AM   #12891
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Quote:
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I like the industrial looking buildings that get converted.
This year is the 150th anniversary of the German Gymnasium's opening. Good timing for its restoration, albeit for a very different purpose (consuming calories rather than burning them ).
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Old February 6th, 2015, 10:39 AM   #12892
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Omg I can't even read this thread anymore.
I know what you mean, I come onto this thread to view London Projects, I hate it when it degenerates into inane off topic discussions.....when these discussions start its like trying to stop a container ship!
FFS will you all take this debate to another thread!!!!!!
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Old February 6th, 2015, 01:05 PM   #12893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
German Gymnasium | King's Cross N1C

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=505188

Official website: http://www.kingscross.co.uk/german-gymnasium



Project facts
  • Address: 26 St Pancras Road, London N1C
  • Developer: D&D
  • Use: brasserie, bar and restaurant

Currently under redevelopment, the German Gymnasium will open this year as a restaurant complex operated by D&D London:







Does anyone know the history of this place? Why's it called the German Gymnasium?
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Old February 6th, 2015, 01:16 PM   #12894
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Does anyone know the history of this place? Why's it called the German Gymnasium?

http://www.kingscross.co.uk/german-gymnasium

Quote:
Designed by Edward Gruning, the German Gymnasium was the first purpose-built gymnasium in England and was influential in the development of athletics in Britain. It was built in 1864-65 for the German Gymnastics Society. This sporting association established in London in 1861 by Ernst Ravenstein.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 01:46 PM   #12895
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Originally Posted by inno4321 View Post

actually I think Londoner very open mind for foreigners who can not speaking english well.
English inability is an object of ridicule? If someone Mockery your inability korean then what you feel? you so rudeness
if you support multi-cultured, then you should don't MOCKERY other people who don't speaking english very well like ME. UNDERSTAND?

Also Fortunately I can live well without ENGLISH.
Because Most Information Technology product, car, ship, semi conductor, smartphone, robot came from FAR EAST ASIA.
In Seoul everything changed with speed of light. So i have no time to learn english
Sorry my friend, I think you mis-read what I meant. I was joking. I wasn't mocking mate.

I adore different cultures - especially in London. My own ancestry is mixed Irish, Italian, and Jewish. My girlfriend is half Black Jamaican half British.


However, English is certainly still the business language of the world. For example; Samsung is written in the Roman Alphabet for a reason...
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Old February 6th, 2015, 02:17 PM   #12896
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Originally Posted by LDN N7 View Post
Does anyone know the history of this place? Why's it called the German Gymnasium?
And confusingly it's not the German understanding of 'Gymnasium' which is a type of secondary school establishment ...

Aside, a great building I'd never heard of, and very glad it's being redeveloped.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 02:37 PM   #12897
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Yes it was, it was for sport. The social movement that built the German Gymnasium (exercise and fitness for all, not just the wealthy) that linked up movements in several European countries was the pre-cursor to the Modern Olympics so it was quite fitting that the Javelin trains left from the platform across the road from here for the 2012 games!
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Old February 6th, 2015, 04:10 PM   #12898
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It should be completed by Easter.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 04:13 PM   #12899
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London's derelict tube tunnels reimagined as a pedestrian and cycle network
Dezeen
5 February 2015


Quote:
Architecture firm Gensler wants to repurpose London's abandoned tube tunnels to create a subterranean network of pathways that generate electricity as people walk and cycle through them.

The proposal – named the London Underline, in a kind of mash-up between the London Underground rail network and New York's popular High Line park – suggests that the city's disused tunnels could provide the answer to overcrowding on other transport routes.

London's underground network includes a number of old stations and tunnels that have been retired from service and now sit empty. These neglected spaces could offer cycleways that are safer and less crowded than the roads, but could also host to pop-up shops, cafes and cultural offerings for pedestrians, says Gensler.

[continued in link]
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Old February 6th, 2015, 04:15 PM   #12900
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Universities’ battle for students sparks race for London campuses
Property Week
6 February 2015
Quote:
London has seen a surge of universities taking office space in the centre of the city over the past three years, as higher education providers seek to gain an edge in an increasingly fierce battle for students.

New research from Savills, published this week, has found that universities have taken 597,569 sq ft of office space in central London since 2012. The upsurge follows government reforms to higher education that have introduced higher fees and greater market competition.

Savills said the upsurge was mainly driven by universities from outside London, with the number of regional universities taking space in central London in the six years to 2014 rising 40 times compared to the previous six-year period.

Regional universities are opening campuses in London in order to increase their appeal to international students, Savills said, with the largest deal so far Liverpool University’s acquisition of 73,746 sq ft at 33 Finsbury Square in the City last year. The university also took 85,400 sq ft on a 16-year lease at nearby 26 Finsbury Square.

[continued in link]
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