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Old March 24th, 2015, 11:33 PM   #13601
hugh
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LDN N7 the OP may not want an apology, but I reckon an apology to this thread wouldn't be amiss. Nationalistic (and antiquated) rubbish is an insult to those passionate about architecture, and to those passionate about London architecture.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 11:58 PM   #13602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh View Post
LDN N7 the OP may not want an apology, but I reckon an apology to this thread wouldn't be amiss. Nationalistic (and antiquated) rubbish is an insult to those passionate about architecture, and to those passionate about London architecture.
I agree, now let us finish this pointless, racist, and nationalist argument and move on back to what this thread is about, great new london architecture and developments. Anyway who really cares about an old building that gets demolished, since that building replaced another old building that got demolished and that building also replaced another old building that got demolished etc. Buildings go in and out of fashion and eventually all things need to be replaced. I personally think London get the perfect balance of keeping historic old buildings that are still in fashion while demolishing those that are not. Anyway that is why London is such a diverse and cultural city with such a great mix of old and new. Now let's move on.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:04 AM   #13603
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New Design Museum and Holland Green | Kensington W8

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=860864

Official website: http://designmuseum.org/about-us/new-design-museum



Project facts
  • Address: Commonwealth Institute, Kensington High Street, London W8
  • Developer: Chelsfield Partners and the Ilchester Estate
  • Architect: OMA
  • Cost: £80 million ($120m)
  • Museum space: 10,000m≤
  • Homes: 63





Photos from LazyOaf's visit to the new Design Museum site. More photos in the London forum thread:


IMG_5383 by LazyOaf87, on Flickr


IMG_5358 by LazyOaf87, on Flickr
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:12 AM   #13604
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Nice n'crisp classical modernism with a vertical touch, good choice for the Design Museum, like it!
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:27 AM   #13605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london lad View Post
Itís interesting that in the thousands of buildings being redeveloped and or refurbished across London ( a city of 1,572 sq km) the same people post the same pictures of very few older buildings that have been demolished in the last 8-10 years to try and misrepresent that London is under siege and being pulled down on a vast scale when as the pictures show it is the exception rather than the norm as itís the same old pictures posted again and again.

Anyone would think they have some sort of agenda
I have no agenda, I just love architecture and reading this forum (but rarely write). But horrible accident with the Odeon building just shocked me, and it prompted me to write here. I live in a post-Soviet country, and thought that the nightmare which is happening to our architecture (and culture) bypassed the romantic antebellum architecture of Western Europe. Perhaps it is not very objective and even naive evaluation, the citizens of London know better, but I was very, very disappointed with these photos, which ruined my imaginary "Literary London".

(sorry for my english...)
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:40 AM   #13606
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Research and Translation Hub | White City W12

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1534686

Official website: http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/imperialwest



Project facts
  • Address: Research and Translation Hub, Imperial West, London W12
  • Developer: Voreda and Imperial College London
  • Architect: Aukett Swanke (The Research Building) and PLP Architecture (The Translation Building)
  • Floorspace: 25,000m≤ (The Research Building) and 23,000m≤ (The Translation Building)





Construction progress from groundbreaking to the present at the Research & Translation Hub, a component of the new £3 billion ($4.5bn) W12 campus for Imperial College London. Photos courtesy of Voreda:



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Old March 25th, 2015, 02:09 AM   #13607
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I don't have any photos but a few hundred yards away, on the other side of the A40 Westway, demolition is well underway at the light industrial estate that is soon to become the Westfield extension.

Exciting times for W12.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 02:16 AM   #13608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthen1an View Post
I have no agenda, I just love architecture and reading this forum (but rarely write). But horrible accident with the Odeon building just shocked me, and it prompted me to write here. I live in a post-Soviet country, and thought that the nightmare which is happening to our architecture (and culture) bypassed the romantic antebellum architecture of Western Europe. Perhaps it is not very objective and even naive evaluation, the citizens of London know better, but I was very, very disappointed with these photos, which ruined my imaginary "Literary London".

(sorry for my english...)
One thing I'd say: try not to hold an idealised image of a 'quaint' London. It's dynamic in nature, and whilst extremely proud of its past, it doesn't attempt to cling to the era and imagery of Dickens and Wilde. It's no museum city.

As mentioned earlier, single projects in the Victorian/Edwardian era demolished far more historic architecture than the combined number in recent times. Buildings undergoing redevelopment today for commercial reasons, to the despair of some, themselves replaced older buildings for the same reason.

Of course there are regrettable demolitions. However, in the scheme of London's overall built environment, such instances are minute. And they're comprehensively outweighed by the number of restorations/renovations/rehabilitations of old structures, many of which had fallen into dereliction as their originally intended usage had ceased:

The Tate Modern, the Royal Festival Hall, King's Cross railway lands, the German Gymnasium, King's Cross Station, the Great Northern Hotel, St Pancras Station and Hotel, the Lighthouse, Royal Arsenal Woolwich, Blossom Street, Shepherd's Bush Pavilion, the German Hospital, Millennium Mills, the Sackler Gallery, Battersea Power Station (etc)... 21st century London is welcoming some good transformations.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 02:50 AM   #13609
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I don't have a problem with prewar buildings being demolished if they're replaced with something better. What really upsets me is when they're torn down and replaced with something truly mediocre, something we know will be demolished in 40 (if not 20) years. It's clearly for short-term profit and nothing else. The Odeon building is an particularly flagrant example of that, but this is happening quite a lot across London—attempts at playing it down are disingenuous.

Spliff Fairy's post alone features maybe 25+ very fine buildings, most of them Victorian or Edwardian. And it's not true, as London Lad claims, that conservationists always point to that same set of buildings. Missing from Spliff Fairy's list are several very major examples: a row of Victorian buildings in Piccadilly, a large Victorian hospital demolished in Aldwych, a very fine Art Deco building in Savile Row, a whole block of Edwardian buildings in Haymarket... off the top of my head... and there are countless smaller projects in my local area, and I'm sure they're happening across the whole of London.

Valuable historic building stock represents less than half of London's architecture. It really isn't that hard to preserve most if not all of that stock ,whilst maintaining London's dynamic nature and it's 21st-century trajectory. Cities like Vienna or Copenhagen in many ways mange to be more modern and dynamic than London (especially Copenhagen), and yet they have perfectly preserved historic cores. The Scandinavian countries in general are better at historic preservation than the UK, despite their reputation for modern architecture and design, and extremely modern and forward-thinking societies.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 10:21 AM   #13610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthen1an View Post
I have no agenda, I just love architecture and reading this forum (but rarely write). But horrible accident with the Odeon building just shocked me, and it prompted me to write here. I live in a post-Soviet country, and thought that the nightmare which is happening to our architecture (and culture) bypassed the romantic antebellum architecture of Western Europe. Perhaps it is not very objective and even naive evaluation, the citizens of London know better, but I was very, very disappointed with these photos, which ruined my imaginary "Literary London".

(sorry for my english...)
Tangent - your English is excellent.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:25 PM   #13611
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Demolitions of classical times did _not_ mean the demolition of the classical city - only modernist ones did!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
As mentioned earlier, single projects in the Victorian/Edwardian era demolished far more historic architecture than the combined number in recent times.
That's true for most major metropolises that evolved during this time.
However, the late 19th century did not break with the classical city and architecture. It was only the post-war modernist movement which really did on a global scale following Corbusier's lunatic Athens Charter, which attempted to conflict and overcome the classical city. It was about putting "function" ahead of anything else, to even make function the only dominant valuable measurement for architecture and urban planning. Vast useless green to separate buildings from each other instead of connecting them, bloated car infrastructure, architecture that should only be seen passing by in "car speed" and thus very bland, oversized/unproportional structures, separated functions (this is an office building, that's a residential one etc., no vibrant mixes)... You name it. It's all still there, even in more urban developments in classical quarters, the failures are repeated on smaller scales.

That means: Modernism aimed to create solitary buildings that don't need any connection to their surroundings, just "work" with its separated functions. It's an intended break, it's contradicting the urban texture by nature. This all may be not so obvious with many contemporary buildings anymore, but that way of thinking is still deeply rooted in architects', planners' and investors' minds.

What it means for that argument you constantly make about historicist/classical buildings replacing older ones: While it's true many historical marvels were lost due to that, the classical model of the city was still followed. Check Barcelona's Eixample for reference. Architects of the time created huge urban areas all at once, that worked perfectly well from the beginning on and are beloved and most expansive today for a reason. Modernist/post-classical architecture and planning has yet to prove it can achieve the same. It's already taking almost a century of modernist experiments, yet I really can't see it's able to do it (yeah there's very expensive areas, but no places with the vibrant urban mix we see in classical city quarters). Modernism does too few mixed developments, goes too often for loosened structures instead of block perimeters and is often too repetetive/bland/cheap or inconsistent in styles to work quite as good. What we learn: The classical city model will always be modern, it just works. You can create any kind of architecture you want within it, but you have to respect and integrate your built environment, make it a lively and sustainable place.

That's why we need New Urbanism on large scales and New Classical architecture next to other contemporary styles. They've proven they can do it, it's just what we call Best Practice across the globe. That's an economical, ecological and for many an aesthetical decision.

London's Richmond Riverside by Quinlan Terry (1987) is a good example of what can work in contemporary urban planning, though it's not just the classical architecture that makes all the difference, but also the very structure of the ensemble. The attention to detail is also important, like urban furniture (lampposts, banks, etc.). It could also work with other styles in between, but a tad of classical will always help to make it a more interesting, comfortable and human place. I can assure you that this row of rather recent buildings will be there for at least a century or even much longer; while we'll see many other (mostly modernist/post-classical) buildings built in the past decades getting demolished much much earlier.


Richmond 01 Jan 2014 copy by Jeremy Webb Photography, on Flickr


Passeggiata domenicale / Sunday stroll (Explore!!!) by AndreaPucci, on Flickr


175 by Duke Street, on Flickr


Riverside Richmond by Gkriniaris, on Flickr


Richmond by TchmilFan, on Flickr
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #13612
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Glasshouse Gardens , Stratford (u/c)

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens and Stratford Plaza (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (u/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr

Glasshouse Gardens (U/c) by Rukuphotos, on Flickr
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:52 PM   #13613
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Lol- Surely mention or pictures of Richmond Riverside is SSC very own Godwin's Law

Seriously London is not going to disappear tomorrow. This circular argument has been done to death here many many times so let’s just leave it there with umpteenth posing of the glorious Richmond Riverside and move on.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:56 PM   #13614
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Aw Lad, been waiting for you so long. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, just skip it.

Here's one more tasty Richiemondy Riversidy, just for you.


Richmond Riverside by jim oatway, on Flickr
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Old March 25th, 2015, 01:10 PM   #13615
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You must have memory problems Erbse as this topic has been discussed to death several times. Nobody is adding anything new and it’s the same old same old, your practically rehashing your same posts. It’s a shame Terry doesn’t have his pictures under copyright as you would owe him a small fortune by now
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Old March 25th, 2015, 01:17 PM   #13616
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Richmond Palace (no longer there sadly) was a beautiful building, built by Henry VII.

But he knocked down another beautiful palace that stood there before, and before that, a huge manor house built during the Norman times… before that, a catholic monastery… so, what is happening today is nothing new or an indictment of architectural sympathies today… simply something that has happened in the UK for centuries.

Sometimes a little history is lost with the times as things move forwards.

Should we cry about the fact that St Pauls Cathedral looks the way it does today? Instead of how it looked before? Or how the Victorians turned London into something vastly different to how it looked in Roman or Norman times?

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Old March 25th, 2015, 01:32 PM   #13617
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Read this post and you may realise that it really doesn't make much sense to compare demolitions and projects within the scope of classical architecture and urban planning, to modernist ones (esp. after WW2).

And yeah, these buildings are huge losses. But in many ways, the new buildings made up for the losses. That's barely the case with many if not most of the projects we've seen in the past decades, when new buildings replaced classical ones. It's because architects, planners and investors often didn't make an attempt to understand and feel the urban fabric and the qualities of the classical European city.

This sense for the built environment (i.e. the genius loci) is only slowly regained in the past few years, since postmodernism came up. It's first about structure (dense urban fabric, mixed uses, small unit segmentation, lively places, interaction with the environment etc.), then about architecture (structured facades, interesting details, valuable materials, proportions, soaring shapes).
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Old March 25th, 2015, 02:08 PM   #13618
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A discussion best suited to the Architecture forum.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 02:12 PM   #13619
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Quote:
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A discussion best suited to the Architecture forum.
There's one more thing that needs to be added though, esp. in the London context.

The notion that "London is becoming a museum" when preserving its heritage is not legitimate.
21st century life can perfectly happen and prosper in 16th, 18th or 19th century buildings. Any such building can also be adapted to new ways of use. That's what always happened. Even a museum shouldn't be static nowadays btw. And the mentioned cities of e.g. Copenhagen, Stockholm, Vienna and San Francisco (or Paris for that matter) are more advanced and livable than several if not most rather or completely modern/ist cities. The museum hogwash is a flawed argument that I never ever want to read again, because reality just happens to prove the opposite. It's what you make of your great heritage that matters.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 02:13 PM   #13620
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The sensationalist argument from preservationists that London is being 'ruined' (and other like terms) is similarly illegitimate.
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