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Old September 16th, 2015, 02:59 PM   #15441
LDN N7
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Can't afford to live in London? Live outside it and commute like everyone else.

Life is full of compromises.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 04:26 PM   #15442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
You need £77,000 if you're buying by yourself and not taking advantage of schemes like shared ownership.You're not reading that article properly. The ONS stats show £30,546 average for London. The Adzuna stats show an average of £41,000.

Frankly I think people whine too much. I have friends who've paid off their loans, saved, and bought properties despite modest earnings. They just showed a bit of discipline, saved for a few years, pooled resources with partners, etc. They also didn't expect their first property to be a swanky flat in a premium area. (Though one managed this through shared ownership.)

Owning property has never been a prospect for singles on low earnings, with the possible exception of Right to Buy for council flats. London's booming economy, global appeal, and surging population, also mean that it's not an easy place to afford. The only comparable world cities have comparable prices.
350K for one bed at Pontoon Docks, great location, Barratts home. 5% deposit on help to buy - £17,500. Mortgage around 1100 pounds a month, which I believe less than current level of rent. This is just very recent example of friend of mine who is moving to this new built in November. PS, he is currently paying around £1400 for renting similar flat with his wife and he is a single earner with salary around £60K. What not to like? Try to do this trick in Hong Kong or Singapore (yes, I am aware they are building a lot of social stock in Singapore which is afforable for many but it's very limited and not available for people on higher salaries).
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Old September 16th, 2015, 04:57 PM   #15443
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Ruskin Square | Croydon CR9

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=580546

Official website: http://www.ruskinsquare.com/



Project facts
  • Developer: Stanhope and Schroders
  • Architect: Shedkm
  • Cost: £500 million ($770m)
  • Homes: 625
  • Office space: 22,000m≤



East Croydon by Green, Cream & Tangerine livery, on Flickr
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Old September 16th, 2015, 08:45 PM   #15444
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Sour grapes??

Stravinsky doesn't even live in London, why would he have sour grapes? His opinion is incredibly valid.

If anyone potentially has sour grapes it's me. I was born in London, have lived here all my life. And I've steadily seen rents go from half reasonable to completely ridiculous. Never mind the crazy house prices that have completely priced people like myself out of the market.

And I'm also caught in a trap with no room to maneuver. I earn a decent living but am throwing my money at a landlord. If I were to save for a 40k deposit on top of renting it would take me five years. But when I reach five years it wouldn't be surprising if the 40k deposit I needed is now a 60k deposit.

So unless I get a windfall, win the lottery or rob a bank, I'm stuck with the status quo.
The guy despises london, maybe you should look at all of his many troll posts before commenting
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Old September 16th, 2015, 09:36 PM   #15445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
There are many examples of cities with fewer issues than London that are actually building more: just have a look at the Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt, or Hamburg threads. Or even just try exploring those cities with Google Maps (no Street View in Germany).
?

Housebuilding in Berlin is currently at 3,500 units per year. London builds several times that number.

They have housing problems of their own.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 10:26 PM   #15446
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"Building more" compared to their relative specifities and needs.

German population has not been booming, and Berlin's population has grown by less than 150,000 in the last 10 years.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 11:31 PM   #15447
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"Building more" compared to their relative specifities and needs.

German population has not been booming, and Berlin's population has grown by less than 150,000 in the last 10 years.
Right so you say other places are doing more then when someone shows you up (again) you change the goalposts.

There are thousand upon thousand of 3-8 floor blocks being built all over London, not that you would know, that is catered for the average person (although still expensive). Property in London, be it new build or resold older property is high. When the population increases 100,000 a year and barely 20,000 homes are built its obvious this will play into prices.

Skyscrapers, particularly the higher end ones in zone 1 are not typical of most new London developments and besides many millions are extracted from them to build affordable elsewhere.

The biggest problem London has (UK in general) is house building is almost exclusively held in private hands. Private developers are in it for the money so will get the going rate for their product.Public policy to bridge the gap is almost non-existent. Towers and foreign investors being the cause of a housing shortage are a red herring.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 09:19 AM   #15448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
You need £77,000 if you're buying by yourself and not taking advantage of schemes like shared ownership.You're not reading that article properly. The ONS stats show £30,546 average for London. The Adzuna stats show an average of £41,000.

Frankly I think people whine too much. I have friends who've paid off their loans, saved, and bought properties despite modest earnings. They just showed a bit of discipline, saved for a few years, pooled resources with partners, etc. They also didn't expect their first property to be a swanky flat in a premium area. (Though one managed this through shared ownership.)

Owning property has never been a prospect for singles on low earnings, with the possible exception of Right to Buy for council flats. London's booming economy, global appeal, and surging population, also mean that it's not an easy place to afford. The only comparable world cities have comparable prices.
The ONS stats use the median, which is the middle value and with sky high salaries in the financial sector, the middle value is going to be high. It does not take into account the number of earners at each wage value, the vast majority are way below that middle value.

e.g in the NHS, experienced staff nurse (band 5) £21-28k supervising health care assistants (band 2) £14-17k, porters, domestics catering most now privatised and on minimum wage or zero hours contracts. Heath care professionals such as biomedical scientists, x-ray, physio and occupational therapists with masters degrees (band 6/7) £26-40k and with the governments latest proposal this flat rate is 24/7 365 days a year as the only way they deliver a 24/7 NHS is to remove enhanced payments for unsocial hours. NHS workers have a 5 year pay freeze and and 1% pre year for the next five years. No wonder many inner London hospitals are only kept running by agency staff.
From RCN.



From Resolution Foundation in the FT Blog.

The reality is that workers essential for the functioning of the city cannot afford to there, neither can they afford to travel.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 11:36 AM   #15449
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Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
With 'normal homes' I mean regular homes for the middle and lower classes, the kind of places we live in. Luxury skyscrapers are great as investments... but do they actually solve London's housing problems? Not so much.

And I don't even mean detached houses, as London could easily aim for higher densities in many locations... I'd say buildings with 4 to 10 floors could do.

There are many examples of cities with fewer issues than London that are actually building more: just have a look at the Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt, or Hamburg threads. Or even just try exploring those cities with Google Maps (no Street View in Germany). Do it please, all of those are quite rich cities, where new developments are primarily catering for the 'normal' resident population, and not millionaires, or foreign investors.

That said, there are large residential projects in London that I do like (Kidbrooke is my favourite, but I do like Earls Court as well). Yet I get the feeling that many people are not actually realizing that the construction boom London is experiencing is still not addressing the issue properly, in my opinion.

I don't know, maybe the government should temporarily asssume a leading role in this process, as it's quite obvious that private developers are not doing enough, or are not going in the right direction.
It's a bit disingenuous to compare London with it's record high population growth, with cities in a country where the population is declining don't you think?

The vast, vast majority of housing schemes under construction in London right now are 4-10 storeys. Great swathes of east London in particular are construction sites right now, filled with schemes in this range. Just take a train out of London Bridge - any of the lines but along the Thames corridor in particular. The scale of construction is impressive - the problem is more how much time it has taken to get up steam, and the fact that the inflow of people to London is even more 'impressive' right now.

As LondonLad has said, the problems in the market are largely due to the complete absence of any coherent public policy in this area. The private sector is doing what it should do really - it's there to make a profit first and foremost. It's not an arm of government in any way. I've also heard plenty of anecdotal evidence of projects being unable to start for lack of capacity in the workforce now. Used to be, when you had a medium sized job, you would have several contractors falling over themselves, competing to bid for the work. Now, they can pick and chose, often have to, and do. That also pushes prices up. I don't have sympathy for them, but you can hardly blame them for making hay while the sun shines!

The gap is for the government for close. At the moment it just doesn't seem to register it as a problem.

Still - perhaps this a conversation for London Skybar? There's a thread there on this very subject. The situation does at least give us lots of lovely schemes to salivate over.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 11:49 AM   #15450
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Quote:
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There are thousand upon thousand of 3-8 floor blocks being built all over London, not that you would know
I work on many of them. Do you?
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Old September 17th, 2015, 11:51 AM   #15451
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Originally Posted by london lad View Post
The biggest problem London has (UK in general) is house building is almost exclusively held in private hands. Private developers are in it for the money so will get the going rate for their product.Public policy to bridge the gap is almost non-existent. Towers and foreign investors being the cause of a housing shortage are a red herring.
I would also add the fondness for suburban sprawl that has led to green belts which have led to new towns being built all around cities.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 12:23 PM   #15452
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I work on many of them. Do you?
Yes but unlike yourself I actually know what Iím talking about, especially with regard London. You on the other hand do not and just come to sneer.

If you work on so many 3-4 floor blocks why then in your immediate previous post sneer at towers in London being the ills of it all and imply smaller blocks which people on average do live in arenít being built. If youíre going to talk BS, at least be consistent.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 12:53 PM   #15453
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The guy despises london, maybe you should look at all of his many troll posts before commenting
Maybe I should. But why would I waste my time? I agreed with that specific post. So I said so.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 12:55 PM   #15454
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Originally Posted by LDN N7 View Post
Can't afford to live in London? Live outside it and commute like everyone else.

Life is full of compromises.
You mean commute on the incredibly reasonably priced, spacious, always on time trains?
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Old September 17th, 2015, 01:16 PM   #15455
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Originally Posted by london lad View Post
sneer at towers in London being the ills of it all and imply smaller blocks which people on average do live in aren’t being built.
Not the developers' fault, obviously. Money's what most developers are actually after. I am after it myself so I naturally favour more expensive projects over smaller ones.

But a sensible government would even temporarily assume command in times of crisis and set out a course of action, with real objectives in mind.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 01:27 PM   #15456
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I totally agree, it's not the developers fault, they are just working within a broken system.
Anyway back to construction, Open House coming up and I'm planning my route, any suggestions of the best sites to visit? I'm starting with Pudding Mill Lane Crossrail station on Saturday morning.

Last edited by metroranger; September 17th, 2015 at 01:33 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 01:51 PM   #15457
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I totally agree, it's not the developers fault, they are just working within a broken system.
Anyway back to construction, Open House coming up and I'm planning my route, any suggestions of the best sites to visit? I'm starting with Pudding Mill Lane Crossrail station on Saturday morning.
One Bishops Square in spitalfields is a must do , has great views of the city of London cluster. If you go in the morning you more or less walk in.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 01:56 PM   #15458
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One Bishops Square in spitalfields is a must do , has great views of the city of London cluster. If you go in the morning you more or less walk in.
Thanks mr Cladding, just found your your Open House 2015 thread.

After Pudding Mill I'm on the guided tour from the Aquatics Center to trinity Buoy Wharf.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 05:25 PM   #15459
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Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
Not the developers' fault, obviously. Money's what most developers are actually after. I am after it myself so I naturally favour more expensive projects over smaller ones.

But a sensible government would even temporarily assume command in times of crisis and set out a course of action, with real objectives in mind.
Well there we can certainly agree.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 07:01 PM   #15460
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Manhattan Loft Gardens | Stratford E20

London forum thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1211899

Official website: http://www.manhattanloftgardens.co.uk/


Project facts
  • Address: Plot N24, Zone 3, Stratford City, London E20
  • Developer: Manhattan Loft Corporation
  • Architect: Skidmore, Owings and Merrill
  • Height: 143m
  • Floors: 42



Core at Level 2 , Photos by metroranger



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