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Old April 8th, 2007, 03:50 PM   #101
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Quote:
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It's a pretty well established fact by now that spires count. But whatever. Happy easter
Happy Easter to you too
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Old April 9th, 2007, 08:20 AM   #102
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Quote:
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It's a spire. A spire is a spire is a spire. Doesn't matter if it's got nothing in, wind turbies in, or dangling cages full of monkeys in. It's a spire, and it has the same treatment as any other spire in the world.

As Jef said, the Heron tower is a 202m (well, 203m) building that goes to 242m with it's spire. The Generali is a 251m building that goes to 318m with it's spire.

Simple as.
Its still quite ambiguous... Sears is taller both to roof and antenna tip than Petronas and yet Petronas is 'taller' because of its spires, which are so slender they're practically antennae. Generali's spires are far more justifiably considered as part of building height as they're an integral part of the design. If you exclude Generali's spires then you should exclude the top third of LBT too, because they aren't habitable floors.

Obviously the debate is when is a spire and antenna and vice versa...
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Old April 9th, 2007, 12:13 PM   #103
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Well, if you aren't counting plant on LBT, you would have to also ignore the top portions of T42, Swiss re, St Helenes, and even Willis would become an under 100m building. Generali's cone is classed as a spire. I'm not saying that shouldn't be included in final height, I'm just saying IT IS a spire, not roof height (again I'm not saying it shouldn't be included in final height here, because we do exactly the same with Heron etc..) where as even though the Shard's plant floors don't have people living in them, they are still floors, and count as roof height. Thats how it is with all the current towers in the city of London, I don't see why the same wouldn't be afforded to the Shard, just because Generali is 251m to roof height.

And it's not the top third of LBT, plant is only the top fifth.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 12:26 PM   #104
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Generali's top is much more similar to the roof of ...let's say BOA Atlanta, thant it is to the spire of Heron. They really have nothing in common. Heron is more like the 15m spire on top of the new axa.

And the tallest corner reaches 269m, not 251.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 12:53 PM   #105
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Phil, I was under the impression (from reading Paris forumers comments) that the corners would be like spires themselves, as they are too thin to actually have people doing anything inside them, along with lift cores/stair wells etc...
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Old April 9th, 2007, 01:44 PM   #106
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Well, then in this case the top of 1cs is a spire and therefore Montparnasse is taller, Commerzbank is not even 200m tall, heron is 173m tall etc...
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Last edited by Phil; April 9th, 2007 at 01:54 PM.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 02:01 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Its still quite ambiguous... Sears is taller both to roof and antenna tip than Petronas and yet Petronas is 'taller' because of its spires, which are so slender they're practically antennae. Generali's spires are far more justifiably considered as part of building height as they're an integral part of the design. If you exclude Generali's spires then you should exclude the top third of LBT too, because they aren't habitable floors.

Obviously the debate is when is a spire and antenna and vice versa...
Well, the spires of the Petronas are a very essential part of the design as well - can you imagine the towers without the spires?
I still consider the Sears to be a taller building though.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #108
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Here is a diagram to clarify things. To me the "spire" of Heron Tower looks more like an antenna.

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Old April 9th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #109
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Is it really important? Duba´ is for now building 800m+ high rise without antenna and you are discussing a planned 242m high building (with or without antenna)? olala!
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Old April 9th, 2007, 02:40 PM   #110
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Is it really important? Duba´ is for now building 800m+ high rise without antenna and you are discussing a planned 242m high building (with or without antenna)? olala!
And you point is? Just because they are building a 800m+ tower in Dubai, all discussions about any other skyscraper become irrelevant? We might as well close the forum and replace it with a Burj Dubai Forum.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 03:09 PM   #111
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We can discuss about the architect, the architecture, the place of this building into a reflexion and a thinking, or we can discuss how is a storey composed, about technical facts, about energy, about public spaces, about the building insertion regarding different levels (street, roof, skyline), about appreciations, appropriation, about its role in the city... Antenna height is not a debate and it does not sum the interest of a whole building.
Axa is officialy 225,11m high. We'll see how tall is generali when the building permit will be delivered. And Heron is 202m (officialy?) and with its antenna/spire/birds buggery pick/anything you want it's 242m. There is no rules, just truthful height. So what about this debate? Height competition? P.... L.....
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Old April 9th, 2007, 05:55 PM   #112
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We might as well close the forum and replace it with a Burj Dubai Forum.
NO! NEVER!
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Old April 9th, 2007, 05:59 PM   #113
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Here is a diagram to clarify things. To me the "spire" of Heron Tower looks more like an antenna.

I can't see it brisavoine
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Old April 9th, 2007, 06:00 PM   #114
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Well, then in this case the top of 1cs is a spire and therefore Montparnasse is taller, Commerzbank is not even 200m tall, heron is 173m tall etc...
Now you're getting it!

But really, what is supposed to be in the side bits of the Generali? Is it empty? Or plant? or what? If it is Plant right in to the top of the tallest edge, then you are probably correct about it being considered roof height. Like Canada Square being 235m is roof height and Heron is 203m roof height, because they are still actual floors, not spires.

What is in Generali's corners?
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Old April 9th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #115
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I can't see it brisavoine
Refresh the page and you'll see it.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 06:47 PM   #116
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But really, what is supposed to be in the side bits of the Generali? Is it empty? Or plant? or what?

What is in Generali's corners?
There will be a sky lounge and a restaurant overlooking Paris. The sky lounge can be seen on this picture, nested in one of the tower's top corners.

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Old April 9th, 2007, 07:10 PM   #117
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Refresh the page and you'll see it.
Ah, right thank you.

It is a spire though mind. Not an antenna.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 07:11 PM   #118
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There will be a sky lounge and a restaurant overlooking Paris. The sky lounge can be seen on this picture, nested in one of the tower's top corners.

I take that is the left corner on the diagram? So the roof height is into the corners. Thanks.

I take it that is 251m then, going by the diagram?
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Old April 9th, 2007, 07:20 PM   #119
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269m.

and there's wind turbines floors in the spire, so I don't see why you it shouldn't be counted. there's a big difference between a 30meters wide structure and a flagpole.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 07:33 PM   #120
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Because it is a spire. As said, it really doesn't matter whats in it. It is, according to you and everyone else, a spire. And it is included in height, as I have said. Just not ROOF height.

And the cone spire doesn't even go to 318m from what I have seen. It seems to have a little secondary needle-esque spire to give it a height boost.

Edit: we have been going on about this for more than a page now, we should stop as we are derailing the Heron thread.
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