Sufferings to Independence

[azerty]

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[Dor. IL]

man i have shiver and tear in my eye...

[RoM]

Sad and well known facts in history

[Shayan_m]

Well from all i've heard , Jews were being persecuted for more than 5000 years (not sure about it). I still don't get it, what was so wrong with them ??? Why all this hatred ?

[Bikes]

I could only tell a possible explanation from a religious point of view, they are the chosen ones and thats bugging a lot of people.

[everythingisone]

Originally Posted by Bikes

I could only tell a possible explanation from a religious point of view, they are the chosen ones and thats bugging a lot of people.

The Christians and Muslims really do not know what it means that Am Yisrael is Am HaNivchar. (many of Am Yisrael do not either, chalila) The basis of both religions is incompatable with Torah. Yet both try to fit Torah into their stories in order to comfort their own actions. It is an old story. It started with jealousy, a long time ago, with Esav and Yishmael. It is now in the genetics of the neshamas. It is what it is. We can change it. There is no secret, chavarim. The mazal of Esav is dependent on the spiritual level of Yisrael. The arrogance of Yishmael allows them to insuate themselves whenever there is opportunity. Nothing new.

[belgiumguy]

it's not because jou guys think that jou are the chosen one that every one els has to think that .think about that

[ZOHAR]

explain please

[belgiumguy]

zohar read "bikes" his post

[ZOHAR]

yes but who cares religion????
all religions support racism...

[belgiumguy]

i'm just saying that if the jews think that they are the chosen one, fine but respect the choice of other people.And instead of posting beautiful pictures of jour roads and act like nothing bad is going on in israel , jou better should help the palestinian peolple to find their dignity back and help them because jou guys are much richer than them
that's how i see it zohar, have fun mate

[ZOHAR]

we are chosen people just because God gave us 12 laws...(don't kill,don;t steal...)

why we must help to palestinians?
first of all they must help themself to their nation,to continue with terror it's not so clever way...

[belgiumguy]

jou are the chosen one fine, muslims also think they are right so do christians and the rest.the israeli governement could resolved this problem a long time ago but they just don't want to because theirs no profit for them in it.the governement closes the palestian borders???how the hell do jou want the economy to rise if nothing can get in our out! ! ! but one thing i really find disgusting is the wall the israelis placed their.Are they the same on both sides, no they aren't .the israelis only care about themselves .why do they blow themselves, well if nobody listens to jou, jou have no job , poor and then jou see pics of rich israelis walking on the beach with their over payed jobs in their american money funds economy.anser this question zohar , what would jou do if jou were a palestian?

[ZOHAR]

yeah and to vote Hamas is really wonderful resolution
and the wall defence us from terror.....
wtf Israeli forum is forbidden for politic stuffs if do u want to talk about this issue we can chat in MSN (mine metrosexual@walla.co.il)

[belgiumguy]

this is the moment i've waited for, every time i begin about this the suffering palestinians , the israelis put themself as the victim .remember this my friend "who laughes as last, will laugh the best"

[TalB]

Honestly, the terrorist attacks shows that they will never accept Israel, and the more they attack, the less chances there are for a Palestinian state.

[belgiumguy]

jou guys are all hypocryt but i'll tell jou something my friend.the us economy is suffering a hard competition from china and indiaplus they don't have alot of friends anymore a lot of countries hate their agressive way to the world.they have a debt that goes in to the trillion dollars and the banks won't accept their loan demands anymore. result: they have to save big money and the first who is going to feel that is israel, no more us aid , and that my friend is the beginning of the end.

o jee one thing, jou guys got 12 rules or something like that , DON'T KILL last week a israeli soldier shot down a 9 old girl but as i said HYPOCRYTS

[source26]

yeah sure when you live in a land of choclates and classical music wth no enemies its easy to have one-sided views
just yesterday a palestinian suicide bomber was caught outside jerusalem, so think how many innocent people he could have blown up..

and does the belgium tv report that over the past months since running away from gaza there have been over 600 rockets shot from there on israeli towns?
or is that not sexy news enough for belguim?

and just for a fact, we are not as dependant on US aid as you think and now
it is also given as a loan... and Israel is one of the only world countries that doesnt beg everyone to delete its debts but pays them all back..

try not to be one-sided and then you can start calling us names..

[Bikes]

Originally Posted by belgiumguy

DON'T KILL last week a israeli soldier shot down a 9 old girl but as i said HYPOCRYTS

The car was coming at high speed to the checkpoint and they didnt seem to stop, do you expect the soldiers to wait and see if this is a suicide bomber or not? They have tried to shoot the tyres, but as you might know its not any easy thing to do when a car is moving fast. Of course this is very sad thing, but read the whole news and try to think a bit. If it was on purpose the soldier would be in jail already.

[nomarandlee2]

Originally Posted by Shayan_m

Well from all i've heard , Jews were being persecuted for more than 5000 years (not sure about it). I still don't get it, what was so wrong with them ??? Why all this hatred ?

I think many times it comes down to economics. Often times Jews even as a minority have been the middle and upper middle class of society and had influential positions in society (this is not their fault and should be applauded). Still, people are insecure by nature and they want control. They want to have control of their own future and when it is seen in the hands of "others" bad things can happen and all sorts of rationales for demonisation comes into play.

Some Jews in the Diaspora don't help that image when they keep money or influence "in house" and that feeds the perception that Jews are a "clique" or they keep money and influence "in house" to sustain prominance. This is not logical and Jews don't do this at a rate any Diaspora has though. In the some news Germans, Italians, Irish, and other groups were the same way and there is not much reason to htink the Jews did this at a much higher rate then other groups. The vast majority of Jews get to where they are by hard work and study and worth ethic. But there is an enclave mentality by some Jews and by some non-Jews that breeds susipicion though.

New Russians (in the Chicago area) often have the same perception (they can be very clique'). But most will probably integrate in the next two generations so that stigma will likely be gone. And in return Jews sense this from some of the larger society and they mistrust the larger society because the larger society has persacuted them in the past and it is a vicous circle. I am not talking about the level of truth or not truth here but I am talking about perception and perception is what matters.

The same is not all that differant from the Chinese who live in Indonesia or Malysia. There are a lot of parrells there. The only differance is that Jews don't have a 1.3 billion nation to watch their back.

Does it have to do with Jews thinking they are the "chosen" one? Really extremely very little has to do with that I think.