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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:34 AM   #421
The Urban Politician
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^ I wouldn't say the Southside is a worthless shit hole but I would say that Southside Developers are worthless sorry excuses for humans at this point...
^ Nah,

Developers are developers.

It's the south side that's worthless.

The south side needs a new motto:

Chicago's South Side: strip mall after worthless strip mall..
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:37 AM   #422
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Well I don't think its the Southside's fault that suburban-minded Developers are infiltrating the city and spitting out bullshit strip malls to make a quick dollar...
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:38 AM   #423
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^ There is absolutely no reason for heavy rail mass transit to exist if all you're going to build is gas stations & shopping centers surrounded by oceans of parking.
You're absolutely right. This was one of the major problems I had with the current administration. Although I really believed the mayor did a great job, there was very little effort to demand good urban design, in many parts of the city. You can't leave it totally to the aldermen to make decisions like this. Most are desperate for economic development, especially on the south and west sides. Alderman Dowell has a planning background but, desperately needs economic development or she could be in trouble in the next election. Most of these developers know this and will take advantage of the situation. That's business. That's a great location. It should be a high density well designed project.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:38 AM   #424
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Now that i think about it what the hell are the Urban planners doing?? Can't they stop garbage like this from being made within city limits?? I mean what's so hard about telling them to atleast move the strip to the property line to be accessible to pedestrians?
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:44 AM   #425
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Now that i think about it what the hell are the Urban planners doing?? Can't they stop garbage like this from being made within city limits??
Urban Planners have no power. I know because I'm one. The politicians in this city believe and think that businesses know whats best. Good design only make sense if it is fiscally sound. Alderman Preckwinkle was the only alderman on the southside who demanded good urban form.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:55 AM   #426
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So basically if we want better urban development then we need politicians that care about their city's image?? (and of course Real urban developers) I don't have the slightest clue on how this stuff works, just here to learn...
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 04:22 AM   #427
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Makes me wonder if extending the red line is a good idea after all.

If development south of Cermak can only be in suburban strip center hellhole format, then why bother introducing more heavy rail into this part of town?
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 05:08 AM   #428
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Makes me wonder if extending the red line is a good idea after all.

If development south of Cermak can only be in suburban strip center hellhole format, then why bother introducing more heavy rail into this part of town?
I dunno the Pullman district is pretty dense and will only get denser with the extension. The point of mass transit is to connect disparate regions of high density and this would qualify.

I'd actually like them to remove red line stops that have the same stop like 50 yards to the east on the green line.

Last edited by nicksplace27; September 22nd, 2010 at 08:26 AM.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 05:43 AM   #429
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I dunno the Pullman district is pretty dense and will only get denser with the extension. The point of mass transit is to connect disparate regions of high density and this would qualify.
Possibly but, I doubt it. There is a "low density is better" culture existing on the south side. Part of it has to do with the era in with many of the neighborhoods were developed or, how they view other failed communities which happened to be dense. Hell, most americans view anything less that a 2,500 sq. ft home with a quater acre of land as failure. Many people believe that crime exists in many south and west side communities because there are too many apartments and people living in close proximity to one another. Never mind the breakdown in family structure due to education, lack of jobs and other socialtal issues. My experience has been that outside of Hyde Park and maybe North Kenwood most residents of the south side prefer lower density communities.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 05:57 AM   #430
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So basically if we want better urban development then we need politicians that care about their city's image??
That's right. Most politicians, especially aldermen don't have a clue about good urban form. They are not urban planners or architects there politicians and many have to answer to their constituents. It takes balls to confront your constituents and say "your idea of urban form is flawed".
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 06:32 PM   #431
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^ Okay so I live in the 18th Ward and on 3 corners of this intersection on Western is dominated by a Walgreens, CVS, & a strip mall. The 4th corner has fences around it with some signs on it I guess getting ready to extend the strip right behind it. I'm pretty cool with the alderman so I can ask them to ask the developers to change the design to make the project more urban?? And if the developers don't want to change it then they'll drop the whole project and leave a giant vacant lot and technically it'll be my fault right?? But the Alderman can find a developer that's up to the challenge?? So basically If I were to major in urban development and then became an Alderman of my Ward then I have a strong chance to restore my part of the city as a strong urban neighborhood as long as I can get the money to fund the projects?? So who has power over me and says that they don't want certain types of development in the city?? (Lol I know, a ton of questions, I'm just trying to learn...)
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #432
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And ignored once again
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:31 PM   #433
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---

Last edited by ChitownCity; September 27th, 2010 at 06:56 PM.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #434
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^ I'd help you if I knew the answer that you seek

Quote:
CTA Red Line sets sights on South Side extension

Some excerpts:

Mixed-use retail and affordable-housing complexes, grocery stores and pharmacies, banks, bookstores, ice cream shops, parks, local activity centers and many other ideas were offered during a "visioning session" for the Red Line extension held this month at St. John Missionary Baptist Church, which is several blocks from the proposed 116th Street station. During the meeting, participants worked with architects and other experts.

"The community is looking for a good store, a bakery, a shoe shop, a place to buy fruits and vegetables and a neighborhood bank — all things that people in other parts of the city take for granted," said Phyllis E. Palmer, who lives near 130th Street and attended the session at St. John.

../..

The CTA has moved up the proposed Red Line extension to 130th Street to its No. 1 priority among major capital improvement projects.

../..

The Red Line extension represents precisely the kind of project Congress prefers to fund. It fits the bill as a true "new start" project, not simply a rebuilding of an existing line. It provides much-needed transportation options to low-income, minority communities that historically have been bypassed when it comes to investment in infrastructure.

Plus, the economic possibilities of transit-oriented development offer the chance to turn around blighted neighborhoods, while attracting middle-income workers from the suburbs to spend money at businesses likely to sprout up near planned park-and-ride facilities along the extended Red Line, officials said.

The project is considered a strong contender for major funding in the next multiyear federal transportation spending bill that Congress will begin working on after the November elections.

Visit link for full article
^ Good news here. However, after seeing what is planned near the 55th street stop (Food4Less, gas station) I am becoming less and less hopeful of any "transit oriented development" despite what these architectural planners are presenting at these "visioning sessions", as described in the article.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 03:49 AM   #435
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^ Okay so I live in the 18th Ward and on 3 corners of this intersection on Western is dominated by a Walgreens, CVS, & a strip mall. The 4th corner has fences around it with some signs on it I guess getting ready to extend the strip right behind it. I'm pretty cool with the alderman so I can ask them to ask the developers to change the design to make the project more urban?? And if the developers don't want to change it then they'll drop the whole project and leave a giant vacant lot and technically it'll be my fault right?? But the Alderman can find a developer that's up to the challenge?? So basically If I were to major in urban development and then became an Alderman of my Ward then I have a strong chance to restore my part of the city as a strong urban neighborhood as long as I can get the money to fund the projects?? So who has power over me and says that they don't want certain types of development in the city?? (Lol I know, a ton of questions, I'm just trying to learn...)
I'm sorry, I was not trying to ignore you. I didn't read your response until today.

The answer to your question is the residents but, too many residents in the low density single family home areas of the city are not as passionate about good urban form. For example I live in Beverly located on the southwest side. For all of those who are not familiar with the neighborhood, it is a community of larger single family homes with larger than average lot sizes. About two years ago a project that would have brought a higher density, mixed use development to busy 95th Street near the Rock Island Metra line, was slowed down because of concerns of being too dense. The developer proposed a five story building with ground floor retail (approximately 30 to 35 residential units) The project was eventually abandoned due to the economy.

I personally know folks that said "if I wanted Lincoln Park I would have move there". Many said they didn't want all the outsider coming into Beverly to dine or shop. This project would not have increase traffic or outsider coming into the community but the perception was enough to frighten many residents.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 04:10 PM   #436
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^ Okay thanks for the response (and I live in Ashburn and go through Beverly everyday so I know what you're talking about )
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Old September 30th, 2010, 07:29 AM   #437
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While ANY investment in Pullman is a welcome sight, the planning is a huge disappointment.

The bank on SE corner (the tower) took design proposals from a group of Masters students at IIT and easily had a dozen designs that were 10x better... even while still including big box shopping.
Found out why is sucks so bad... it was master planned by pappageorge haymes. I have no idea how these guys even get near real projects much less win them. According to a person very very close to the project there were many superior designs but pappageorge haymes just sold theirs better. Emphasis on the sold.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 07:45 AM   #438
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^ If approved, it will confirm my suspicion that the south side of Chicago remains a worthless shit hole not worth caring about--Hyde Park excepted.

The south branch of the Green Line really needs to be torn down if these are the kinds of developments we have to look forward to. There is absolutely no reason for heavy rail mass transit to exist if all you're going to build is gas stations & shopping centers surrounded by oceans of parking.
This proposal has really made me upset, its just another project in a long endless line that guts and ****s the south side of Chicago. Have we not figured it out yet that the south side is the way it is now because of continual superblock projects? There was a time, not too long ago that the south side was full of dense vibrant neighborhoods whose only crime was their race and their poverty. Then through the last 60 years we have ripped and torn every neighborhood apart leaving them in shambles with no where to turn. If this project happens it will just set the area back another 30 years for the sake of a quick tax grab.

Washington Park and Woodlawn need to be left as neighborhoods, not shopping centers. These areas, what little is left of them have great transit, great parks, easy access to the lake, easy access to the Dan Ryan, incredible proximity to UC and Hyde Park and have dirt cheap land prime for investment and rapid infill.

I just dont get it, and I really hope someone on the city planning commission feels the same way I do.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 07:48 AM   #439
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Well I don't think its the Southside's fault that suburban-minded Developers are infiltrating the city and spitting out bullshit strip malls to make a quick dollar...
For once I agree with you. Visionless developers and absent minded aldermen.

Last edited by untitledreality; September 30th, 2010 at 07:53 AM.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 08:03 AM   #440
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So basically If I were to major in urban development and then became an Alderman of my Ward then I have a strong chance to restore my part of the city as a strong urban neighborhood as long as I can get the money to fund the projects?? So who has power over me and says that they don't want certain types of development in the city??
Cant be both at the same time... thats a big no no. That being said, as solely a developer you can go after projects however you see fit so long as the finances work out for both your investors and your lenders. And as solely a alderman you can have powerful input on what type of projects and density get approval in your ward.
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