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Old February 3rd, 2009, 09:23 PM   #321
JoKo65
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Quote:
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light metro != light rails. light metro means financially light metro. it's cheaper than classic metro because it's elevated and has shorter trains (90m)
Ok, I thought the cars to be not as broad as the other metro cars.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 01:57 AM   #322
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http://metroblog.ru/post/1860/

5-door head car 81-740.4



6-door 81-741.4
Which one will be used and where?
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Old February 4th, 2009, 10:06 AM   #323
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on circle line
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Old February 4th, 2009, 10:18 AM   #324
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New Russian trains are nice, and the stations awesome, a class of its own
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Old February 4th, 2009, 11:26 AM   #325
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Unfortunately, those new cars are not as beautiful as the stations themselves...

I don't understand, how, knowing that Slavans people like beauty and a lot a frivolous details, they don't go for the last straight line and the design. It is almost the same cost, but the attitude towards the customer and the atmosphere is better. They only compensate with graphic art outside and inside the cars. It is a patch. It shows that Putinand and Medvedev don't take the metro very often... I think they prefer their own car... And I doubt they have a Lada...
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Old February 4th, 2009, 12:19 PM   #326
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Where is the problem with the cars?
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Old February 4th, 2009, 02:43 PM   #327
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This is an appalling crap. People who "designed" this appear to live in some sort of time warp or total isolation (may be in an institution?)...
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Old February 4th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #328
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The trains look quite nice outside, a little bit like a Siemens Desiro. They are casual, and I lijke that. But the interior is terrifying. SÓ old-fascioned. Unbelievable.
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Old February 5th, 2009, 12:16 AM   #329
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Where is the problem with the cars?
If you have choice, you prefer to drive an expensive Lada or a cheap Audi?
It is the same here with the cars. Russians can do much better (I know it very well, there are some masterpieces in aviation industry) but often, the industrial mentality and the management is under the possibilities of the creativity and skills of Russian Engineers and designers. That is all. Russia must fin its own incredible design and not copy old crap from old standards without imagination (it looks like an old french metro of the seventies and more boxy. A metro is like a train, it creates stories! You don't want to dream in an vehicule that does not inspire you.

I hope that I have enlighted you so you understand that Russians industries have to go for the best and not the average...
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Old February 5th, 2009, 01:03 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X38 View Post
The trains look quite nice outside, a little bit like a Siemens Desiro. They are casual, and I lijke that. But the interior is terrifying. SÓ old-fascioned. Unbelievable.
it's practical and anti-vandal, not old-fashioned. you just can't make it better when you have 12 people/sq.m in pick hour.
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Old February 5th, 2009, 02:37 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micrav View Post
If you have choice, you prefer to drive an expensive Lada or a cheap Audi?
I would prefer the Audi because it is more secure, not because of it's design.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Micrav View Post
It is the same here with the cars. Russians can do much better (I know it very well, there are some masterpieces in aviation industry) but often, the industrial mentality and the management is under the possibilities of the creativity and skills of Russian Engineers and designers. That is all. Russia must fin its own incredible design and not copy old crap from old standards without imagination (it looks like an old french metro of the seventies and more boxy. A metro is like a train, it creates stories! You don't want to dream in an vehicule that does not inspire you.
I think much more practical. The Moscow metro has to cope with 9 Million passengers a day and this job has to be fullfilled. It is no toy train!
Not to forget: Design depends on personal taste, some people like the design of the Madrid metro cars for example, others not.


Quote:
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I hope that I have enlighted you so you understand that Russians industries have to go for the best and not the average...
Tell that the Russians!
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Old February 5th, 2009, 10:00 PM   #332
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Quote:
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it's practical and anti-vandal, not old-fashioned. you just can't make it better when you have 12 people/sq.m in pick hour.
Hum, I think Japanese know something about crowded metro cars...
For info, design is not only about look, design is about functions. Look is only one of the functions, a tricky one because it is very subjective. But something that is well designed inside shows it outside usually, otherwise, it will not be a commercial success. Maybe there was no competition for this metro, I can believe this... So no strive to provide the best for this international city that is Moscow...

About anti-vandal, I doubt: taggers tag ugly things, believe me. And if environment is not friendly but aggressive, believe me, it will not stay nice long. Live in Switzerland for example to experience the respect of public transportation today in Zurich. Amazing how people behave compare to some other cities and the past... It is respect for the other user full way! I respect you, you respect me, logical! The whole world should be ruled by respect. Things would be much better. Foreigner living in Latvia, I noticed what is the impact of non-respect and arrogance of some russian people (rich or not) and rich Latvians. it influences everybody! Everybody has to drive aggressively to find its way! This, you don't experience it in other countries. Not all russians are like that, Thanks God, but this minority does not help improving the situation...

The only consolation that I have is that the graphic designers who have made this metro piece of art design in Moscow have done a great job with peanuts. My hat to them.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 02:25 AM   #333
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Plug type doors are stupid on metro trains... It is not as clear to passengers where the doors will close so when it is crush loaded they might get in the way. It's also easier for stuff like coats and bags to get trapped, and they are more complex which means they're more prone to failing. Finally, they don't tend to close as fast or as aggressively...
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Old February 6th, 2009, 03:32 AM   #334
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there is a big red led over the doors. it flashes about 3-4 seconds before doors will close. afaik .4 modification also will feature the intelligent doors function. a single door will repeat open/close procedure automatically if it was unable to close up to 3 times.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 03:56 AM   #335
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i'm still interesting what is so outdated in this interior? and what is modern interior (comparing to large metro systems)?

this is old modification .1 from 2003-2005





"modern" interiors from comparable systems

lul 2009 stock muck up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2009-stock-inside.jpg

r160 from nyc subway
http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?87143

mf2000 from paris metro
http://www.metro-pole.net/actu/IMG/j...F2000_p600.jpg
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Old February 6th, 2009, 12:41 PM   #336
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81-740.4/81-741.4 drawings, large size
http://i074.radikal.ru/0902/8f/402ef1f86024.jpg
http://i034.radikal.ru/0902/27/6941510618f4.jpg
http://s42.radikal.ru/i097/0902/46/6fd83dd363b1.jpg
http://s53.radikal.ru/i139/0902/da/60bdbf709db8.jpg
http://i052.radikal.ru/0902/b0/bb4150186e3a.jpg
http://s61.radikal.ru/i174/0902/94/2e633cdca2ad.jpg
http://s57.radikal.ru/i156/0902/a6/804ae10d1400.jpg
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Old February 6th, 2009, 03:34 PM   #337
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There are leaders and followers. This metro is a follower. It would be great to see innovations like russians can create and new design nobody has seen before. I believe this is what we all expect one day if Russia wants to export successfully something else than gaz and oil. Again, I believe this new metro is not at the level of the Metro Stations it runs in.
About the French and the American MetroCars, I don't love them either (old generations what you showed us), go look to other countries like Spain and England to see products that are a bit more designed, and look also new designs in catalogues of manufacturers.

Here is interior of Brussels Metro.
image hosted on flickr



Roma

Other

Alger


And it is only from one company, so imagine so many nice possibilties. I just want to remove the lid over the head to show what is possible. Strive for the best, not the least
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Old February 6th, 2009, 04:45 PM   #338
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I agree, Russian trains are somewhat obsolete and I would welcome buying foreign stuff, at least in limited quantities, just to breath a fresh air, to show how it should be.
Russian industry in that area is heavily monopolized and it is bad. Recently, RZD bought some Velaro trains from Siemens and I think that's good
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Old February 6th, 2009, 05:04 PM   #339
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Again, can you say what exactly is obsolete in 740/741 series ? You can like or dislike it, but technically it's up-to-date and much modern than a traditional 714/717 series.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 07:21 PM   #340
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Quote:
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there is a big red led over the doors. it flashes about 3-4 seconds before doors will close. afaik .4 modification also will feature the intelligent doors function. a single door will repeat open/close procedure automatically if it was unable to close up to 3 times.
That doesn't really answer any of my problems, tbh.
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