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Old May 29th, 2011, 10:46 PM   #1081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HARTride 2012 View Post

If only their rolling stock was updated.
?

Most of rolling stock on a half of lines produced since 1980's with just 1 line utilizing refurbished few years ago rolling stock from late 1970's. 5 lines utilizing trains produced less than 10 years ago.

Most of other big systems have much older trains in service.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #1082
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If only their rolling stock was updated.
Only not Siemens, please!!!!
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Old May 30th, 2011, 02:38 PM   #1083
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Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
Only not Siemens, please!!!!
What's wrong with Siemens?
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Old May 30th, 2011, 03:57 PM   #1084
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I like Siemens trains. But the color scheme shown is horrible for any subway/metro in my opinion.
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Old May 30th, 2011, 04:25 PM   #1085
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^ Well, the colour scheme is city-dependent anyway, so that has nothing to do with the train shown. IMHO, the Moscow Metro can use any design train-whise, as the latest examples from Metrowagonmash are pretty dull, especially the front.
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Old May 30th, 2011, 07:52 PM   #1086
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What's wrong with Siemens?
OK, look at the seats:



1) Firstly I do not understand why necessary to use hard plastic (or wooden) seats instead of the soft leather seats. Secondly, I do not understand why necessary to do curves seatbacks. I'm tall and slightly slouching guy. When I sat in some European subways with such curved seats (Barcelona, Porto and others), I feel himself very uncomfortable and my spine was very ill. I don't understand why Europe does not use a soft seats with perpendicular seatbacks.





2) I can't understand why there is no horizontal handrails above the seats. There are only the vertical pillars near the doors. Moscow Metro is a second busiest subway system in the world. It's mean that few "lucky people" will be sit on these horrible hard seats. The other passangers will stand around those pillars near the doors (that will lead to problems during the entry and exit of passengers at the stations). And the remaining 80% of passengers will stand between those pillars, having no handholds (and will fall on each other during each rotation or acceleration of the train).

I think that the Germans should understand that they design trains for the MOSCOW METRO, not for the Łódź, Gdynia or Kędzierzyn-Koźle (where it will be empty as it shown at those drawings)! This crappy trains should be sent to Poland!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
^ Well, the colour scheme is city-dependent anyway, so that has nothing to do with the train shown. IMHO, the Moscow Metro can use any design train-whise, as the latest examples from Metrowagonmash are pretty dull, especially the front.
Do you know this popular Russian joke?

Pedestrian catches a taxi on the street. Ordinary car stops beside him. Surprised pedestrian asked the driver:
- Are you taxi driver?
- Yes, I am.
- So why your car have no any special signs?
- So what do you want - to ride or to look at signs?

As a passenger of the Moscow Metro, I want to ride in the train instead of looking at its color design! And ride in comfort as it's possible with passanger traffic in Moscow Metro!
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Old May 30th, 2011, 11:32 PM   #1087
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snip
You know Siemens will probably modify the design a bit to better suit the needs of Moscow don't you?
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Old May 30th, 2011, 11:35 PM   #1088
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You know Siemens will probably modify the design a bit to better suit the needs of Moscow don't you?
I hope so.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:16 AM   #1089
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May 31, 2011. Opening of the own vestibule of "Sretensky Boulevard" station.

Sretensky Boulevard is a major boulevard in central Moscow of important cultural significance, a part of the Boulevard Ring encircling the centre of the city. Sretensky Boulevard's northern end is at Lubyanka Street and Rozhdestvensky Boulevard, and its southern end is at Turgenev Square, where it becomes Clean Ponds Boulevard.

Former house of insurance company "Russia" (1899-1902, architects - Nikolay Proskurin and Viktor Velichkin):

Wikipedia

LUKoil headquarters (1970s-1995, architects - Felix Novikov and Dmitry Solopov):

Wikipedia

Monument to Nadezhda Krupskaya (1869-1939), Lenin's wife, social and cultural activist, at the northern end of Sretensky Boulevard (opened in 1976, sculptors - Yekaterina Belashova and Alexander Belashov):

Beta

Monument to Vladimir Shukhov (1853-1939), great Russian engineer and architect, at the southern end of Sretensky Boulevard (opened in 2008, sculptor - Salavat Shcherbakov):

ivan65412009

Sretensky Boulevard is named after Sretensky Monastery. This monastery was founded by Grand Prince of Moscow Vasily I in 1397. It used to be located close to the present-day Red Square, but in the early 16th century it was moved northeast to what is now Bolshaya Lubyanka Street. The Sretensky Monastery gave its name to adjacent streets and byways, namely Sretenka Street, Sretensky Boulevard, Sretensky Lane, Sretensky Deadend, and Sretensky Gates Square.

Unlike most other Russian Orthodox churches of the same name the monastery is not, as might be expected, named after one of the twelve Great Feasts of Russian Orthodox Church - Sretenie Gospodne (Presentation of Our Lord in the Temple), with Sretenie being a Church Slavonic word for "meeting".

The origin of the monastery's name comes from the fact that it was built on the spot where the Muscovites and the ruling Prince had met the icon of Our Lady of Vladimir on August 26, 1395, moved from Vladimir to Moscow to protect the capital from the imminent invasion of Tamerlane. Soon thereafter, the armies of Tamerlane retreated and the grateful monarch founded the monastery to commemorate the miracle. In 1552, the Muscovites gathered at the walls of the monastery to meet the Russian army returning after the conquest of Kazan.

In 1925, the monastery was closed down. In 1928-1930, most of its buildings were dismantled by the Soviets, including the Church of Mary of Egypt (14th-16th century) and Church of Saint Nicholas (16th century). Only the Cathedral of the Meeting of the Icon of Our Lady of Vladimir with a side chapel to the Nativity of John the Forerunner (built in 1679 by the order of Russian Tsar Fyodor Alexeyevich) survived to this day.

Services in the Vladimirsky Cathedral resumed in 1991. The cathedral was transferred to the authority of the Pskovo-Pechorsky Monastery in 1994, but nowadays it is a separate monastic establishment, with Patriarch Alexy II as its archimandrite.

Vladimirsky Cathedral (1679) of the Sretensky Monastery:

Elena
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:23 AM   #1090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
OK, look at the seats:

1) Firstly I do not understand why necessary to use hard plastic (or wooden) seats instead of the soft leather seats. Secondly, I do not understand why necessary to do curves seatbacks. I'm tall and slightly slouching guy. When I sat in some European subways with such curved seats (Barcelona, Porto and others), I feel himself very uncomfortable and my spine was very ill. I don't understand why Europe does not use a soft seats with perpendicular seatbacks.
I prefer hard-plastic seats because they can be maintained better and cheaper in time, and are also healthier. Leather is more difficult to clean than plastic and it can also accommodate bacteria and fungi better than plastic. Therefore, there is also a public health hazard when using leather.

As to the seatbacks, I find them comfortable and ergonomic for keeping a healthy spine. I understand your concerns, but most people don't have back problems and want to keep their backs straight on the seats, especially when riding on long distances.

Quote:
2) I can't understand why there is no horizontal handrails above the seats. There are only the vertical pillars near the doors. Moscow Metro is a second busiest subway system in the world. It's mean that few "lucky people" will be sit on these horrible hard seats. The other passangers will stand around those pillars near the doors (that will lead to problems during the entry and exit of passengers at the stations). And the remaining 80% of passengers will stand between those pillars, having no handholds (and will fall on each other during each rotation or acceleration of the train).
That's a BIG problem indeed. Especially on very busy routes. I agree on this one.


PS: as to the colour scheme, it sucks for me too. But I guess it could be changed. I like the classic metal looks of the subway trams.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:43 AM   #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
^ Well, the colour scheme is city-dependent anyway, so that has nothing to do with the train shown. IMHO, the Moscow Metro can use any design train-whise, as the latest examples from Metrowagonmash are pretty dull, especially the front.
Nobody denies 81-760 have pretty ugly front. 81-740 isn't nice either. But aside of this MWM cars are of high quality, technically very advanced and well designed inside (may be not as good as london's trains, but much better than tokyo, new york, madrid trains). 81-760 and 81-761 might are not so nice inside with blue color scheme, but that just a matter of taste. Most people prefer blue over dark yellow, orange and brown. Me hates blue, though.

Let's hope they just going to redesign the nose of 81-760 before going to mass production. So then it's going to be better than Siemens in almost everything.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:56 AM   #1092
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"Sretensky Boulevard" is a station of the Line 10 of the Moscow Metro. The construction, which began in the late 1980s, has frequently stalled as a result of continuous breaks in finances. Only in 2004 did proper funding resume, which allowed finishing the construction. The station was opened on December 29, 2007 only with interchange at "Turgenevskaya" (Line 6) station. On January 13, 2008 was opened second interchange at "Chistye Prudy" (Line 1) station. During 3.5 years station had no own vestibule - it was necessary to walk via platform of one of two interchange stations for reach exit to city.

The station opening had been long awaited, as it simultaneously allowed transfers to two other stations: "Chistye Prudy" ("Clean Ponds") of the Line 1 and "Turgenevskaya" ("Ivan Turgenev") of the Line 6. The projected passenger dynamics for the station are 10800 per hour on entry and 20100 on exit, which allows for a dramatic occupancy decrease on the Ring Line, particularly on the "Komsomolskaya" ("Communist Union of Youth") — "Kurskaya" ("Kursk") path.


Yury Gridchin

The station, designed by architects Nikolay Shumakov and Galina Mun, features a standard Line 10 deep-level (depth - 60 meters) pylon-trivault design with the base set as a monolith concrete plate. White fibreglass is used on the vaults of the central (9.5 metre diameter) and the platform halls (8.5 m) as well as the escalator and transfer corridor ceilings, which also doubles the hydroisolation. Initially it was though that the station's main decorative feature would include a set of three metre high bronze and rock sculptures in the niches of all 30 pylons. Made by leading Russian sculptors, they would stand on granite pedestals with luminescent lamps lighting down on top of them. However recently it has emerged that this would be too costly, and hence the pylon design was altered to now include a set of metallic artworks on themes of the Boulevard Ring. White marble covers the floors, whilst flooring are done with granite.

Former house of insurance company "Russia":

NAGRIMO

LUKoil headquarters:

Hopor

Sretensky Boulevard:

Faith-is-fate

There are two escalator tunnels leading from both ends of the station: one directly to "Chistye Prudy" (Line 1) station, and the other to a combined transfer to "Turgenevskaya" (Line 6) as well as a diversion to a second escalator tunnel to the surface. The combined vestibule is located under the Turgenev Square at the beginning of Academician Sakharov Avenue and next to the Sretensky Boulevard for which the station is named. In an effort to conserve the spendings and time, the vestibule and the escalator tunnel to the surface were opened later.

Татьяна Вл.


Yury Gridchin
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Old May 31st, 2011, 11:32 AM   #1093
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I prefer hard-plastic seats because they can be maintained better and cheaper in time, and are also healthier. Leather is more difficult to clean than plastic and it can also accommodate bacteria and fungi better than plastic. Therefore, there is also a public health hazard when using leather.
OMG!!! Don't force me to think that passengers are riding in European subways with naked backs and asses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
As to the seatbacks, I find them comfortable and ergonomic for keeping a healthy spine. I understand your concerns, but most people don't have back problems and want to keep their backs straight on the seats, especially when riding on long distances.
You totally don't understood me. I need to sit in RIGHT position for the spine had vertical support:


When the seatback has a little curvature, I can't fix my spine in vertical position:
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Old May 31st, 2011, 12:16 PM   #1094
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OMG!!! Don't force me to think that passengers are riding in European subways with naked backs and asses
Oh, c'mon! In summer, people wear short pants, t-shirts etc. The leather grows all kind of bacteria and fungi because it's organic, stuff that people ma catch. It'd feel gross for me to sit with shorts (or not) on a piece of leather which accommodated thousand of peoples before, with various skin diseases.Would you wear a second hand leather jacket bought at a corner shop?

Quote:
You totally don't understood me. I need to sit in RIGHT position for the spine had vertical support
No, no, I perfectly understood you, but from the pics of Siemens cars, the seats look straight to me, at least the upper half of back seats where you put your back against. They look like keeping your spine in a pretty correct position.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 01:02 PM   #1095
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Nobody denies 81-760 have pretty ugly front. 81-740 isn't nice either. But aside of this MWM cars are of high quality, technically very advanced and well designed inside (may be not as good as london's trains, but much better than tokyo, new york, madrid trains).
I totally agree with you. However, by the former comments I was led to believe that the criticism was mainly about the exterior looks.

Having said that, I think there's a little misunderstanding here: contrary to Metrowagonmash, who build every type of car with a certain interior (correct me If I am wrong, but visits to other Russian metro systems make me think so), western companies usually offer their subway and tram cars in families, which allow to adopt the interior and nose design according to the requirements of the ordering public transport company.

It is very unlikely that you will see two subway systems with the same interiors in Western Europe or Asia, so, if Siemens enters the tender, you can very much expect that interior to be adjusted to Moscow's needs.

Quote:
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OMG!!! Don't force me to think that passengers are riding in European subways with naked backs and asses
To be honest, I cannot remember having ever seen so many topless people (okay, guys) within a subway system like during Moscow's heat last July
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Old May 31st, 2011, 01:43 PM   #1096
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Oh, c'mon! In summer, people wear short pants, t-shirts etc. The leather grows all kind of bacteria and fungi because it's organic, stuff that people ma catch. It'd feel gross for me to sit with shorts (or not) on a piece of leather which accommodated thousand of peoples before, with various skin diseases.Would you wear a second hand leather jacket bought at a corner shop?
Summer is an opportune time for bacteria. I don't think that the risk to get infection in the Metro is higher than in any public place (streets, urban park, office rooms, personal car, etc). If to think about it everytime, that it can lead to mysophobia (pathological fear of contamination and germs). There are two ways to struggle with this risk - a night cleaning of Metro carriages and personal hygiene (shower, bath, laundry, etc). Anyway, it's much worse to sit on hard seats twice a day (this is daily additional pressure on the human skeleton) that to have minimal opportunity to get a skin disease. I'm prefer to sit on soft chairs and sleep on soft bed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
No, no, I perfectly understood you, but from the pics of Siemens cars, the seats look straight to me, at least the upper half of back seats where you put your back against. They look like keeping your spine in a pretty correct position.
So what problem to do it with lower part of seats? I can't understand it. Why need to have such unusual configuration?

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I understand your concerns, but most people don't have back problems and want to keep their backs straight on the seats, especially when riding on long distances.
But what with minority? Following your logic, we can say that officials should not spend money to build special equipment for disabled people, because most people are healthy. Also do not forget, that here are old people and kids among these relatively healthy passangers. For these people situation will be doubly uncomfortable.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:40 PM   #1097
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VESTIBULE OF "SRETENSKY BOULEVARD"

Preparations to the official opening:

Битцевский панк

The theme of this applique on the glass is leisure of Muscovites at Boulevard Ring:

Битцевский панк


Битцевский панк


Битцевский панк

Sretensky Boulevard:

PS43
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:41 PM   #1098
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Lighting of the stairs (for the visually impaired passengers):

Битцевский панк

Turnstiles UT-2009:

Битцевский панк

Ivan Besedin (in glasses), new chief of Moscow Metro:

Битцевский панк

Sergey Sobyanin, new Mayor of Moscow:

Битцевский панк
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:42 PM   #1099
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Official opening of vestibule:

q-rex

Ticket offices:

Битцевский панк

Behind the glass:

Битцевский панк

Escalators:

Битцевский панк

Police post:

Битцевский панк

Nikolay Shumakov, the architect of station:

Битцевский панк
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:43 PM   #1100
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Entrance to the "Sretensky Boulevard" under Turgenev Square:

Битцевский панк

Opposite entrance to the "Turgenevskaya" station:

Битцевский панк

Passageway to the platform (with asymmetrical form of vault):

Битцевский панк


Битцевский панк


Битцевский панк
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