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Old November 27th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #1301
Northridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
1. Well, they have the old design. But it is very reliable in work.
2. There are about 4500 wagons in Moscow Metro. The majority of the old trains are not exhausted their operational resource. Therefore, it is foolish to discard them from exploitation and buy new trains instead of this. It's expensive, unnecessary and economically unjustifiable.
3. However, with time, old trains will need to be replaced. But this is a systematic and unhurried process that continues today. Currently they fully replaced rolling stock at the three of 12 Moscow Metro lines - Line 3, Line 4 and Butovskaya Line of Light Metro. This year they almost fully replaced rolling stock at Ring Line. By 2011, Rusich trains - 10% of rolling stock.
Size wise they're not comparable, but I remember Oslo had huge problems with maintenance on our old rolling stock. I guess that you can make it more effective when having such huge amount of rolling stock as Moscow has, but I can't really see why you wouldn't modernize it. A modern fleet is always better than an old one. Less power consumption and cheaper maintenance. To think otherwise is not very smart!
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Old November 27th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #1302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
Size wise they're not comparable, but I remember Oslo had huge problems with maintenance on our old rolling stock. I guess that you can make it more effective when having such huge amount of rolling stock as Moscow has, but I can't really see why you wouldn't modernize it. A modern fleet is always better than an old one. Less power consumption and cheaper maintenance. To think otherwise is not very smart!
There are also new ones, like these:


But old stock is reliable, and probably even more reliable than new one, but it will be replaced gradually anyway
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Old November 27th, 2011, 12:04 PM   #1303
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But old stock is reliable, and probably even more reliable than new one, but it will be replaced gradually anyway
I think you're buying the wrong type of trains then.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #1304
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Size wise they're not comparable, but I remember Oslo had huge problems with maintenance on our old rolling stock. I guess that you can make it more effective when having such huge amount of rolling stock as Moscow has, but I can't really see why you wouldn't modernize it.
They are modernizing this. They are developing new models and carrying out regular maintenance of old wagons.

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A modern fleet is always better than an old one. Less power consumption and cheaper maintenance. To think otherwise is not very smart!
This is not the truth. New cars have more technical devices, resulting in an overall reliability is reduced. And, of course, new trains with air-conditioning system and electronic information system can't consume less energy than old ones. Maintenance of such trains also can't be cheaper, because new details always cost more than old ones.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 01:19 PM   #1305
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This is not the truth.
Yes it is. Believe it or not.

Why do you think other transport systems are buying new rolling stock?
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Old November 27th, 2011, 01:38 PM   #1306
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Size wise they're not comparable, but I remember Oslo had huge problems with maintenance on our old rolling stock. I guess that you can make it more effective when having such huge amount of rolling stock as Moscow has, but I can't really see why you wouldn't modernize it. A modern fleet is always better than an old one. Less power consumption and cheaper maintenance. To think otherwise is not very smart!
The trains in the Moscow metro runs almost exclusively in tunnels. It is basically an indoor train, not subjected to weather related tings degrading the trains, like wind/rain/snow/ice/salt etc. This means the trains have a much longer commercial life than for example the trains used in Oslo. With such a huge fleet they probably also have an enormous stock of spare parts so they easily can maintain the trains way beyond their original designlife.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #1307
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Quote:
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I think you're buying the wrong type of trains then.
It's interesting, how you can determine this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
Yes it is. Believe it or not.

Why do you think other transport systems are buying new rolling stock?
Because the new rolling stock are more comfortable, although more expensive. For this reason people are buying new personal auto cars, although old cars are cheaper.

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Originally Posted by gincan View Post
The trains in the Moscow metro runs almost exclusively in tunnels. It is basically an indoor train, not subjected to weather related tings degrading the trains, like wind/rain/snow/ice/salt etc. This means the trains have a much longer commercial life than for example the trains used in Oslo.
Right. By the way, old trains were firstly replaced with new at the lines with large open-air segments and big number of ground-level and over-ground stations (Line 3, Line 4 and Butovskaya Line).
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Last edited by AlekseyVT; November 27th, 2011 at 02:24 PM.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 02:43 PM   #1308
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With such a huge fleet they probably also have an enormous stock of spare parts so they easily can maintain the trains way beyond their original designlife.
Actually, nobody maintains trains way beyond their design life.

Original design life of rolling stock used in Moscow Metro is 35-40 years. The trains being replaced currently were build in 70s-early 80s, so that rolling stock replacement goes just as planned.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 06:51 PM   #1309
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Quote:
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I think you're buying the wrong type of trains then.
I've been to Rome a few month ago, they have new air conditioned CAF trains, but also old ones, which are worse or at least not better technically than old trains in Moscow, not considering they are completely vandalized, unlike the ones from Moscow.
Buying foreign trains for Moscow subway is not the option also, maybe just cooperation with foreign manufactures, such as Alstom (which is a shareholder of Transmasholding) may bring the results.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 11:44 PM   #1310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
Size wise they're not comparable, but I remember Oslo had huge problems with maintenance on our old rolling stock. I guess that you can make it more effective when having such huge amount of rolling stock as Moscow has, but I can't really see why you wouldn't modernize it. A modern fleet is always better than an old one. Less power consumption and cheaper maintenance. To think otherwise is not very smart!
The train on photo is just a one of few Moscow Metro's Doctor Yellows - track monitor/geometry/maintenance train. There is an only line utilizing trains built before 1977 - TKL (6). But they were completely refurbished few years with 10-year extended lifetime. Mostly old bogies and bodies left. Most of else was replaced.

Two lines using trains built in late 1970's. One (circle, 5) is being entirely replaced right now. Another one (KSL, 8) awaiting a new car series, which are on trial runs at the moment. 4 lines (APL 3, FL 4, KahL 11 and BL L1) utilizing only rolling stock built in XXI century. These are on pretty much high technological level.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 11:12 PM   #1311
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It's interesting, how you can determine this?
It was meant as a joke, hence the smiley. But I think I still have a point. If you get worse trains after renewal I will suggest that you maybe got some trains of bad quality.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 12:05 AM   #1312
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Opening will be on December 1 or December 2, 2011. Station "Zyablikovo":

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Old November 29th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #1313
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Old November 29th, 2011, 12:07 AM   #1314
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Station "Shipilovskaya":

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Old November 29th, 2011, 12:08 AM   #1315
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Station "Borisovo":

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Old November 29th, 2011, 12:09 AM   #1316
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Old November 29th, 2011, 01:28 AM   #1317
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pics of interior for new trains ?
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Old November 29th, 2011, 02:00 AM   #1318
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OK, I'll bite - The Clock shows 11.39 and the 2.43 is what, the time until the next train?
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Old November 29th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #1319
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I will let AlekseyVT give a more detailed response, but I believe that measures the time since the previous train left the station, although at what exact point the clock resets I don't know (sometime between when the front car leaves the platform and when the tail car leaves the platform, or maybe even later).

Thus, while many cities have countdown clocks, Moscow has count-up clocks (although there are countdown clocks at Filyovskaya Line stations where outbound trains serve more than one destination).
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Old November 29th, 2011, 03:08 AM   #1320
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Actually, nobody maintains trains way beyond their design life.
Wrong ... Montreal does (for which the place can be applauded) and even wins prizes for doing so , even if their older stock's wholly indoors ... no offense, but were Montreal London, then the number of service (stock) failures'd be outrageously unacceptable
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