daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 5th, 2011, 12:37 PM   #1421
batberto2
La Vendetta
 
batberto2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Umbria
Posts: 1,932
Likes (Received): 543

The Moscow Metro has always been my favorite, however, is the apotheosis of the Cyrillic alphabet, perhaps we should also start to use the Latin alphabet, if Moscow wants to become a cosmopolitan city. In view also of the WC2018
batberto2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 5th, 2011, 08:22 PM   #1422
siamu maharaj
樂豪酒店
 
siamu maharaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,188
Likes (Received): 4962

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
It's very simple
Well thank you!
__________________
ho ho to pa ki ho
siamu maharaj no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 6th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #1423
_Night City Dream_
Registered User
 
_Night City Dream_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 19,120
Likes (Received): 101525

Quote:
Originally Posted by coth View Post
5-6cm, not more.
I insist. Just measure it. We usually do not evaluate dimensions correctly. A thin laptop like MacBook pro that looks like 1 cm is almost 4, same with mobile phones etc. and then I said "some" 10 cm.
__________________
Big Cities is one of the major inventions by human beings

My Baku / Мой Баку / 我的巴库


forumaniac, Zaz965 liked this post
_Night City Dream_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2011, 07:45 AM   #1424
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,644
Likes (Received): 5752

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
I wonder what prompted the Moscow metro to use a waffle vault design at Krasnogvardeyskaya, a design that is not repeated in the system and that looks like a miniature version of a Washington Metro platform.
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2011, 08:11 AM   #1425
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
I wonder what prompted the Moscow metro to use a waffle vault design at Krasnogvardeyskaya, a design that is not repeated in the system and that looks like a miniature version of a Washington Metro platform.
Here is interview of Nikolay Shumakov, architect of this station (now Head Architect of "Metrogiprotrans"). Speaking shortly, "Krasnogvardeyskaya" (1985) was one of his first works as architect in Moscow Metro. During his work, he studied the experience of other countries and unconsciously copied the Washington design for "Krasnogvardeyskaya" station.

Quote:
ЛИХАЧЕВА: И еще раз спасибо за то, что вы пришли к нам сегодня. Давайте вернемся к вашим самым первым проектам. Итак, вам еще нет 30, вам дали спроектировать собственную станцию, станцию "Красногвардейскую". Вы мне расскажите, а вы сильно мучились над концепцией? Вот этот творческий процесс вообще как получается?

ШУМАКОВ: Я сильно мучился, и я думал, надо же сделать все-таки, вдруг это последний объект, и вдруг я завтра куда-то уйду…

ЛИХАЧЕВА: Первый и последний.

ШУМАКОВ: Да, первый и последний, надо сделать все хорошо. Как сделать это? Хоть вам и не нравится, но ума не хватало, как сделать, поэтому, быстренько перелистав и изучив советский и иностранный опыт, сделав какую-то такую несложную компиляцию и поняв, что есть помимо России Америка, а в Америке, в Вашингтоне, в то время случился метрополитен. И он для нас был абсолютно загадочный, потому что абсолютно иные принципы проектирования. И вот, сделав такой слабый выпад в сторону Америки, получил, собственно говоря, станцию "Красногвардейскую". Я вам такой страшный секрет раскрыл, но так оно и было.

ЛИХАЧЕВА: То есть, говоря журналистским языком, вы несколько слизали с вашингтонского…

ШУМАКОВ: Легко, легко лизнул, они даже не заметили. Даже, на самом деле, не заметил никто, и я в том числе.

ЛИХАЧЕВА: То есть, вы просто вдохновились на самом деле, да?

ШУМАКОВ: Да, я же свято верил, что это такая архитектура есть и вот такая и будет. А на самом деле все каким-то образом подспудно. Это потом анализ такой произошел. На самом деле, я не отдавал себе отчета, что вот я тупо беру калечку, накладываю на какой-то чужой проект и переношу на московское подземелье. Нет, конечно, это случилось потом, когда объект был построен, когда он уже несколько лет эксплуатировался, и осознание того, как это получилось, пришло уже позже. Но это случилось именно так, я так думаю, на сегодня. Завтра, что буду думать, неизвестно, как искусствоведу говорю.

Читать полностью: http://finam.fm/archive-view/2631/
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2011, 07:21 AM   #1426
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,644
Likes (Received): 5752

Wow; can't believe they made him head architect. I guess he's not the only one in Russia who's getting rewarded for cheating.
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2011, 07:24 PM   #1427
Kot Behemot
негдашња - Краљица српска
 
Kot Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Thebes
Posts: 2,965
Likes (Received): 11204


Cheating? A bit harsh word to use, isn't it?
As I understood, he was studying the examples of the stations worldwide, and adopted a certain model he had valued from some reasons, tho it would probably be wrong to admit it back then (imagine, using a station type from a "rotten West")
Ur second sentence sounds like bigotry.
__________________
Fruška Gora jes' malena,
Al' je časna i poštena.

Klub Putnika Srbije
www.serbiatravelers.org
Kot Behemot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2011, 08:09 PM   #1428
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,644
Likes (Received): 5752

Actually, he admitted to cheating. Take this passage here:

Quote:
Хоть вам и не нравится, но ума не хватало, как сделать, поэтому, быстренько перелистав и изучив советский и иностранный опыт, сделав какую-то такую несложную компиляцию и поняв, что есть помимо России Америка, а в Америке, в Вашингтоне, в то время случился метрополитен. И он для нас был абсолютно загадочный, потому что абсолютно иные принципы проектирования. И вот, сделав такой слабый выпад в сторону Америки, получил, собственно говоря, станцию "Красногвардейскую". Я вам такой страшный секрет раскрыл, но так оно и было.
The way I read the first sentence, he admits that he did not have the necessary mind/skills/imagination/knowhow to complete the design (ума не хватало, как сделать).

He then says in Washington, DC "at that time there occurred a metro" (в то время случился метрополитен). It sounds just as ridiculous in Russian as it does in English.

And then he admits his weakness in choosing an American design (сделав такой слабый выпад в сторону Америки).

He then says that nobody noticed that he copied the Washington design, not even the architect himself (Даже, на самом деле, не заметил никто, и я в том числе.)

I don't buy that for a second. The Washington metro stations opened in the 1970s and 1980 (later underground metros used a different ceiling pattern) are unique. There is nothing in the USA or Europe quite like those stations. And nothing in Russia prior to Krasnogvardeyskaya looks anything like it. He knew what he was doing when he copied the design.
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2011, 09:29 PM   #1429
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Actually, he admitted to cheating. Take this passage here:

The way I read the first sentence, he admits that he did not have the necessary mind/skills/imagination/knowhow to complete the design (ума не хватало, как сделать).

He then says in Washington, DC "at that time there occurred a metro" (в то время случился метрополитен). It sounds just as ridiculous in Russian as it does in English.

And then he admits his weakness in choosing an American design (сделав такой слабый выпад в сторону Америки).
He then says that nobody noticed that he copied the Washington design, not even the architect himself (Даже, на самом деле, не заметил никто, и я в том числе.)

I don't buy that for a second. The Washington metro stations opened in the 1970s and 1980 (later underground metros used a different ceiling pattern) are unique. There is nothing in the USA or Europe quite like those stations. And nothing in Russia prior to Krasnogvardeyskaya looks anything like it. He knew what he was doing when he copied the design.
Don't need to read literally. Nikolay Shumakov is a man with big sense of humour. That's why he has such a peculiar manner of speaking. It's very interesting to hear, but it looks some absurd on paper. Russian language suggests a certain diversity in the understanding.

At least he frankly admitted that he was inspired by the architecture of the Washington subway. Architecture and art in general are based on some borrowing from other authors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Wow; can't believe they made him head architect. I guess he's not the only one in Russia who's getting rewarded for cheating.
Of course, he became Head Architect not because he "cheated" somebody, but because he was author of the other more original stations. He was author of more than 20 of 185 existing Moscow Metro stations (including three latest station, which were opened on December 4). Here you can find his name as author of many stations:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...589712&page=93
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...589712&page=94

Also, he was other of other projects like Zhivopisny Bridge and Terminal A of Vnukovo Airport
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 07:45 AM   #1430
YaWW
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 84
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Wow; can't believe they made him head architect. I guess he's not the only one in Russia who's getting rewarded for cheating.
Oh, come on. it's not cheating, it's a giving a visual reference to another great metro. Sometimes architects make an obvious copy of something already proven to be cool and recognizable. Tokyo has a rethought copy of the Empire
State Building, DC has erected Capitol building which is a copy of the Saint Paul in London, which in its own turn a copy of the Saint Isaac cathedral in St Petersburg, which in its own turn is a copy of Pantheon in Paris. Great architectural ideas don't have to be all new each time, sometimes one has to use the existing style to make a visual space of one civilization more uniform and recognizable to have established cultural media.
YaWW no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:21 PM   #1431
KVentz
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Moscow
Posts: 2,364
Likes (Received): 1660

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Wow; can't believe they made him head architect. I guess he's not the only one in Russia who's getting rewarded for cheating.
Bad artists copy. Good artists steal.
Pablo Picasso

Quote:
Originally Posted by YaWW View Post
Oh, come on. it's not cheating, it's a giving a visual reference to another great metro. Sometimes architects make an obvious copy of something already proven to be cool and recognizable.
And there are so many single-vault stations in Moscow, we can find any type of shapes there: simple and complex. And there are many examples of adoption from everywhere.

Last edited by KVentz; December 11th, 2011 at 12:33 PM.
KVentz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:03 PM   #1432
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

LATEST CONSTRUCTION UPDATES. DECEMBER 4-10

STATION "NOVOKOSINO" (Line 8; 2012)

PetreX


PetreX


PetreX


PetreX


PetreX


PetreX

Western exit at Suzdal street:

PetreX


PetreX


PetreX


PetreX
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:05 PM   #1433
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

STATION "ALMA-ATINSKAYA" ("ALMATY") AND METRO DEPOT "BRATEEVO" (Line 2):

колючий ёжик


колючий ёжик


колючий ёжик


колючий ёжик


колючий ёжик


Александр К


Александр К


Александр К


Александр К


Александр К


Александр К


Александр К
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #1434
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

"LERMONTOVSKY PROSPECT" ("LERMONTOV AVENUE"; Line 7):

franssen


franssen


franssen


franssen


franssen


franssen


franssen

"ZHULEBINO" (Line 7):

RainMan


RainMan


RainMan
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:12 PM   #1435
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

STATION "PYATNITSKOE SHOSSE" AND METRO DEPOT "MITINO" (Line 3):

oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980


oleg1980
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:15 PM   #1436
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

STATION "ULITSA STAROKACHALOVSKAYA" (BUTOVSKAYA LINE OF LIGHT METRO - L1)

Southern site:

Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand

Central site. Shifting the sewer:

Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:16 PM   #1437
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

Cementation of ground:

Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #1438
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

Northern site:

Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:18 PM   #1439
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

General view through all three sites:

Kaiser Ferdinand

Intermediate site between "Ulitsa Starokachalovskaya" and "Lesoparkovaya" stations:

Kaiser Ferdinand

STATION "LESOPARKOVAYA ("URBAN FOREST"; Butovskaya Line of Light Metro - L1):

Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:21 PM   #1440
AlekseyVT
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow City
Posts: 8,283
Likes (Received): 7092

STATION "BITSEVSKY PARK" (Butovskaya Line of Light Metro - L1)

Eastern site:

Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand

Western site:

Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand


Kaiser Ferdinand
AlekseyVT no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
метро, metro, moscow, subway

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium