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Old November 10th, 2007, 09:16 AM   #2141
mr.x
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SkyTrain fare gates earlier dismissed as too costly

Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 09, 2007

VANCOUVER - Putting fare gates on SkyTrain and the Canada Line would cost more than $30 million a year to install and operate and reduce fare evasion by less than $3 million, a report prepared by TransLink's staff predicted just two years ago.

On Thursday, Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon announced plans to install fare gates in a bid to reduce fare evasion and improve public safety.

The proposal - which Falcon says will be paid for entirely by the province - has the support of Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie, TransLink's chair.

However, in December 2005, TransLink's board overwhelmingly rejected fare gates after a detailed report by its staff found it wouldn't come anywhere close to paying for itself.

Vancouver city Coun. Peter Ladner, a TransLink board member, said Friday he was not sure why gates are a better idea now than they were two years ago.

"I'm quite puzzled by this decision and I'm looking forward to hearing the justification for it," he said.

He noted TransLink has already invested millions of dollars in hiring SkyTrain police to reduce fare evasion.

"I'd like to see ... whether we can achieve the same goal with a better use of their resources rather than jumping into a system we've previously decided didn't make economic sense," he said.

George Puil, who was chairman of TransLink from 1998 to 2003, said the board looked at fare gates twice during his tenure and was convinced both times that they cost more than they were worth.

"I think the money could be used elsewhere," he said. "You could use it to have more police ... around SkyTrain stations."

In an interview Friday, Falcon estimated that installing fare gates at all stations would cost in the "$80 million to $100 million range."

He acknowledged, however, that only covers one-time construction costs. TransLink's 2005 report estimated that, on top of that, it would also have to hire nearly 400 attendants to staff the gates, both to ensure people weren't jumping over them and to let through those who can't use them, such as people with excess luggage or in wheelchairs.

Combined with the costs of installing the new gates, amortized over 20 years, the 2005 report put the total annual cost of fare gates at $32.2 million.

In contrast, it estimated gates would reduce fare evasion by only $2.9 million. Based on extensive spot checks, TransLink estimates that about 4.9 per cent of SkyTrain revenues are lost through fare evasion.
Falcon and Brodie said they think the rate is much higher.

"There's no way in an open system you're going to be losing that little," said Falcon. He said transit operators in Europe told him their fare-evasion rates are as high as 30 per cent.


However, neither Falcon or Brodie was able to identify any flaws with the way TransLink compiled its figures.

"I just believe the numbers are higher [from] the times I've ridden the system," said Brodie. "It's not scientific, it's anecdotal. But I certainly believe it."[/color][/B]

The report states that many people believe fare evasion is higher than it really is because they see so many people get on the train without buying a ticket.

However, TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said most of those people actually have paid, either by buying a monthly pass or transferring from a bus.

Falcon said he's convinced that, over time, gates will pay for themselves by reducing evasion. But even if they don't, he said, the province thinks it is worth doing to reduce crime on transit. In the first six months of this year, TransLink's police service recorded 189 drug crimes, 381 property crimes and 239 violent crimes.


Simon Fraser University criminologist Paul Brantingham said research suggests fare gates can deter crime both on the transit system itself and around stations, by making it more of a hassle for criminals to get on.

Nancy La Vigne, an expert on transit crime at the Urban Institute in Washington, D.C., said it may seem strange that a two-dollar fare would deter any criminal from using SkyTrain. But she said research shows most criminals are not very motivated, committing crimes only when the opportunity arises. The hassle and cost of a turnstile, she said, will be enough for many to hang out elsewhere.

"Little changes that make things more difficult can have a big impact," she said.

[email protected]


© Vancouver Sun
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Old November 11th, 2007, 12:57 AM   #2142
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Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
Exclusive Skyscrapercity/Skyscraperpage pictures of the first four Canada Line Rotem trains (8 cars) being loaded onto a ship in South Korea, bound for Vancouver.

A huge thanks to our friends at the Canada Line Project Office:









looks like that really was the final design, then...
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Old November 11th, 2007, 02:53 AM   #2143
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The trains will be painted in Canada.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 02:54 AM   #2144
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Note that the $32.2M per year includes the amortization of the initial capital costs. If those capital costs are covered by the Province, the annual operating costs should be lower than the $32.2M.
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Old November 12th, 2007, 02:53 AM   #2145
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Good article criticizing the City of Vancouver for not densifying around Skytrain Stations:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...723a431a15&p=1

Quote:
Key density growth to SkyTrain stations

Bob Ransford, Vancouver Sun
Published: Saturday, November 10, 2007

Public transit infrastructure should follow dense urban growth. Public transit infrastructure should be in place to attract more dense growth.

Density or urban infill growth and transit infrastructure need to be planned simultaneously and are dependent on each other.

Which of the foregoing three statements is correct when it comes to managing growth in a rapidly growing urban region?

Hopefully, common sense would tell you that we should plan density, or urban infill growth, at the same time we are planning the expansion of our integrated transit network in Metro Vancouver.

Unfortunately, there's a shortage of common sense when it comes to our governing institutions and their decision-makers.

Mayor Sam Sullivan says that today, transit ridership in the Broadway corridor tops 60,000 people a day. He says this justifies the need to extend the Millennium SkyTrain system from Clark Drive all the way west to UBC.

I recall a similar argument being made when politicians were attempting to justify a $1-billion-plus expenditure on the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit line a few years ago.

That project, now topping $2 billion as it approaches completion, runs through a continuous corridor of low-to medium-density development in Vancouver. There are a number of nodes south of the downtown peninsula where significant growth could occur along the Cambie Street-Canada Line corridor, but "could" is the operative word. Whether or not growth does occur along the Cambie corridor is up to Mayor Sullivan and Vancouver city council.

One small developer has been working for at least two years trying to get approval to build six fee-simple townhomes on a single-family lot that fronts directly on Cambie, not far from one of the Canada Line stations.

Not only will it be a model development for the kind of row-housing developments that don't yet exist in this city, it is a form of modest density in an area that should welcome even more density.

Plans have been drafted for some modest new infill development around one of the more important Canada Line stations -- Oakridge -- at 41st Avenue. There are four other stations south of the density that will occur near the Olympic Village station on the southeast corner of False Creek. Density needs to occur around each of these stations, just as it is being planned around at least three of Richmond's four Canada Line stations.

We can't afford to build a $2-billion transit system and have it serve an under-built corridor. The Canada Line was supposed to serve a corridor with existing density. It was also supposed to attract new density. Many would argue that the density it served was primarily commercial and institutional density, and not residential density. If the Oakridge plan is any indicator of the type of density increases we can expect to see around the other Canada Line stations, the whole project has failed.

There are already two transit corridors that run east-west through the eastern part of the city where growth has yet to live up to the potential that rapid transit was meant to spur. One line has been in place for more than two decades.

The other, about a decade. There are at least five transit stations along these two lines where the predominant form of residential development within walking distance of the station is still single-family residential.

What is an appropriate density along these transit lines and around their stations? Look at how Burnaby has planned growth around most of the 11 stations in that municipality. Infill development around the Patterson, Metrotown and Edmonds stations has now matured and is a good example of the kind of medium- to high-density development that should be developed around transit stations.

Similar growth is underway around at least three or four other SkyTrain stations in Burnaby.

Surrey is also beginning to see the potential for infill growth around its SkyTrain stations. That city has the potential of developing an entire new downtown around the Surrey Central station.

It seems as though decision-makers and developers in Surrey are beginning to realize that potential.

That leaves Vancouver. Before the mayor talks a lot more about extending the rapid transit system along Broadway, perhaps he can demonstrate what the city is prepared to accommodate in terms of new growth around Vancouver's existing SkyTrain stations.

Bob Ransford is a public affairs consultant with CounterPoint Communications Inc. He is a former real estate developer who specializes in urban land use issues. E-mail: [email protected]

© The Vancouver Sun 2007
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Old November 12th, 2007, 04:30 AM   #2146
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old November 12th, 2007, 08:05 AM   #2147
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Interesting designs. The only thing I don't like about the Canada Line through Richmond is that it doesn't run in the median. Since it's running along the eastside, it kind of blocks the businesses along the eastside of No. 3 Road, not to mention presenting a big, gray eyesore. But with the design treatments and the redevelopment, i'm sure it won't be a problem.
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Old November 12th, 2007, 08:22 AM   #2148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36 View Post
Interesting designs. The only thing I don't like about the Canada Line through Richmond is that it doesn't run in the median. Since it's running along the eastside, it kind of blocks the businesses along the eastside of No. 3 Road, not to mention presenting a big, gray eyesore. But with the design treatments and the redevelopment, i'm sure it won't be a problem.
the main reason why it's built on the eastside rather on the existing B-Line media is so that to create a more urban and intimate street atmosphere. Richmond didn't want a obtrusive bulky guideway....which would also likely have required a mezzaine and pedestrian overpasses to the sides of the streets - very much like Brentwood Station on the M-Line.

These were some old renderings created by the City of Richmond in 2004:








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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old November 13th, 2007, 02:22 AM   #2149
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NDP MLAs unveil strategy to make SkyTrain stations safer

Doug Ward, Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, November 12, 2007

VANCOUVER - The provincial NDP supports the B.C. Liberal government's proposal to install turnstiles at every SkyTrain and Canada Line station - but the opposition party doesn't want to wait until a private partner is found to build and operate the system.

NDP MLA Adrian Dix told reporters today that Victoria should give TransLink a direct grant from the provincial surplus to quickly develop a system of transit fare gates.

"We shouldn't waste money on private-sector schemes. We have the resources now to make the system safer," said Dix.

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon announced plans last week to install turnstiles in an attempt to cut fare evasion and improve public safety.

Falcon also said he hopes to find a private partner to run the fare gate system on a revenue-sharing basis.

Dix said he supports turnstiles because they will reduce crime at transit stations - not because he thinks they will pay for themselves.

"It's clear that the incremental revenue from turnstiles will not pay for the capital construction," Dix told reporters. "So this has to be a decision that improves transit security and safety at stations."

Falcon said last week that the cost of turnstiles would be recovered eventually by reducing fare evasion.

Dix said that turnstiles would increase security by making it more difficult for criminals to get into a SkyTrain station.

"I think SkyTrain suffers from being a bit of an uncontrolled atmosphere right now."

Dix spoke about turnstiles during a NDP press conference held to unveil the party's 10-step strategy to cut crime at transit stations.

The NDP's proposals include:

- Increasing the number of SkyTrain police by 50 per cent until there is one security person at every station while a line is in operation.

- Provide additional after-hours security at all stations.

- Implement a pilot walk-home program for at least five high-risk stations.


Dix was joined at the media event by Dave Toner, whose son Matthew was beaten to death at Surrey Central SkyTrain station in 2005.

Toner, co-founder of Families Against Crime and Trauma, said that TransLink promised in August that it would provide 24-hour policing at a number of SkyTrain stations.

"We've been pressing them to honor their commitments. You can't put a price on public safety," said Toner.

The press conference was held at the 29th Street Station in East Vancouver, said Dix, because a vicious attack on a woman took place near the station in April and another six attacks have taken place within a few blocks.

Dix said that security at stations is essential if transit is going to become a key component of the region's climate change strategy. If governments are urging people to use transit, said Dix, "we have an absolute obligation to ensure their safety."




© Vancouver Sun
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old November 13th, 2007, 03:37 AM   #2150
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hay guys.

i was wondering if anyone can help me out. i am looking for ridership numbers for the 99 and 97 B lines. has this been oficially published anywhere?.

also does anyone have any links to articles about the evergreen or millenium extension, other than what has been posted in this thread? thanks.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 03:44 AM   #2151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldwide View Post
hay guys.

i was wondering if anyone can help me out. i am looking for ridership numbers for the 99 and 97 B lines. has this been oficially published anywhere?.

also does anyone have any links to articles about the evergreen or millenium extension, other than what has been posted in this thread? thanks.
1)
99 B-Line: 60,000 passengers/day
98 B-LineL 40,000 passengers/day
97 B-Line: 7,000 passengers/day

2) Go to Google News and search up "Millennium Line" and "Evergreen Line"
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old November 13th, 2007, 03:57 AM   #2152
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thanks alot mr X. do you have the published source of those numbers if i may ask?
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Old November 13th, 2007, 04:03 AM   #2153
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Quote:
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thanks alot mr X. do you have the published source of those numbers if i may ask?
sorry, no. those numbers have been stuck in my head for quite awhile... to me it's equivalent to knowing the population of Vancouver, or BC, or Canada.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old November 13th, 2007, 04:15 AM   #2154
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ok thanks. i'll see what i can pull up
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Old November 13th, 2007, 04:56 AM   #2155
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i find it soo funny that they stuck betwood station on top of Westminster Hwy. XD

thank god we did not go with light rail... though our current system isn't really that much better =P
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Old November 13th, 2007, 05:29 AM   #2156
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image hosted on flickr


I know the quality on this shot isn't the greatest, but it was as good as I could do from the plane at the moment

It's too bad it wasn't daytime when I was landing. Anyways I got a shot of the bridgeport area of the Canadaline at dusk. I wanted to take a shot of the North Arm Bridge but I was on the wrong side of the plane.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 08:07 AM   #2157
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Try going to the Translink website and looking at the Board reports - under "Board News" then left side margin for agendas and minute. Previous year's ridership figures are usually reported in the spring.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 04:34 AM   #2158
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Canada Line Photos

Canada Line Pics from today:


North of Cambie and Broadway

image hosted on flickr



South of Broadway/City Hall Station

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



King Edward Station (Yay paved over!)

image hosted on flickr



Oakridge - 41st Ave. Station

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



Marine Dr. Station (Start of Guideway work)

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



North Arm Bridge

image hosted on flickr
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Old November 14th, 2007, 08:47 AM   #2159
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ok thanks. i found some numbers from 2006 and im sure theyre not acurate at all. i'll look into that
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Old November 15th, 2007, 11:09 AM   #2160
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Cost of turnstiles greater than losses from unpaid fares
Transport minister wants them but board worries about funding

Frank Luba, The Province
Published: Thursday, November 15, 2007

Installing turnstiles in SkyTrain and Canada Line rapid-transit stations will cost about $14 million more a year than the turnstiles will recover in previously unpaid fares, TransLink estimates show.

"Where's the money to pay for this expensive technology?" TransLink chairman Malcolm Brodie asked yesterday after the second-to-last meeting of the TransLink board, before it's replaced by a board of professionals.

Brodie referred questions about turnstiles to the B.C. government.

Based on what he saw of transit systems on a recent trip to Europe, Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon revealed last week he wants turnstiles at all rapid-transit stations.

On Tuesday, Falcon said the process to acquire the security and fare-evasion-prevention system will begin in 2008.

TransLink previously grappled with the security-gating issue in December 2005 as it pertained to the now-being-built Canada Line.

While making sure gates could be added to the new line, the board then decided on a variety of other measures, such as having more police and going to prepaid fares.

The extra costs of gating were a key factor in the decision.

A 2005 report indicates gates would require extra staff that will cost $25.1 million in 2009 when the Canada Line to Richmond is due to open.

Add another $3.5 million annually for the capital cost of the equipment for a grand total of $28.6 million for turnstiles.

Cheating on the two existing SkyTrain lines costs TransLink about $3.3 million annually, with the predicted evasion on the Canada Line being about $1 million.

If that total of $4.3 million is subtracted from the $28.6-million annual capital and operating cost, the annual cost for turnstiles would be $24.3 million.

But the final turnstile cost of $14.3 million can be arrived at when another $10 million is subtracted because that is the cost of the 52 police officers that will be hired, regardless of gating.

Despite the board's decision, Brodie personally supports turnstiles, saying he believes "the fare evasion is actually higher [than staff estimates]."

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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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