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Old November 30th, 2007, 10:43 PM   #2221
urbanfan89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm4 View Post
Take a screenshot. Either use the "Grab" application, or press "Shift+Apple+3". You could also just link to your Google Map.
A better way is to use Google Earth. It's much more flexible and you can incorporate more information. Now if I could eventually finish my dream plan for the GTA, I could move on to Vancouver...
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Old December 1st, 2007, 09:08 PM   #2222
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Taking a SkyTrain to downtown is ridiculous, its simply to long and will not get people out of their cars. The HOV is there so use it. All you need is a bus and presto. Look at Guilford. Its right beside a freeway that goes near downtown but there is no bus.
It would be faster, far more pleasant, and would hel[p releive traffic on the SkyTrain.

It is basic, simple things like this that Translink should be thinking of. Translink refuses to use basic common sense which is why people South of Frazer do not take transit and why Translink's ridership levels are very low compared to Tor/Mon/Ott/Cal.

Only Translink would offer premium expensive service which requires a high level of subsidy and expensive infastructure/rolling stock to a less populated area , Coq/Mr/Miss than a far cheaper and fast service to Surrey/Lang/AG/Abbots that could all day with no rail conflicts.
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Old December 1st, 2007, 10:59 PM   #2223
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Even using the limited HOV lanes, there's no way a bus from Guildford could get downtown as fast as the SkyTrain would during rush hour. If SkyTrain were extended to Guildford, that would be only a 40 minute ride to Granville, not to mention that SkyTrain can make other stops throughout downtown within the span of a couple minutes (let's not even talk about stations along the rest of the line). Only if there were ZERO congestion on the highway and in Vancouver could a bus achieve the same thing.

Mind you, it would be nice to see a queue jumper lane with bus service across the Port Mann.

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Old December 2nd, 2007, 12:01 AM   #2224
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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
It is basic, simple things like this that Translink should be thinking of. Translink refuses to use basic common sense which is why people South of Frazer do not take transit and why Translink's ridership levels are very low compared to Tor/Mon/Ott/Cal.
Well for one bus service south of the fraser is junk compared to north. I mean if skytrain was extended down the fraser highway and either another metro type line or LRT was build down the King George and bus service improved to provide feeder routes to the LRT I think it wouldn't be a problem to get people to take transit. Most trips would still take less than an hr. People don't take transit south of the fraser because it's not a convient alternative.

Metro Vancouver is way bigger than Toronto and we have less people, so it is taking awhile to catch things up due to costs. Transit ridership is about 20% daily in Vancouver, and 15% ish in Burnaby, while in Langely it's like 1%, and it's not just due to density, convience is a big factor as well.
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Old December 2nd, 2007, 06:20 AM   #2225
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Calgary's CTrain serves a population of just 1.02 mill compared to Translink's 2.2 mill but has higher ridership levels as does Ottawa with its bus-only Transitway.
The 351 from White Rock is a fast service to downtown and the same distance to downtown as is Langley but due to HOV it's actually faster than cars.

A few express buses from the valley to downtown would do wonders.
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Old December 2nd, 2007, 06:43 AM   #2226
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Does anyone think the Canada Line should be extended south 30 years from now to Delta? Because short of the Massey Tunnel being twinned, it could be impossible to cross the South Fraser in under 40 minutes by then.
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Old December 2nd, 2007, 06:51 AM   #2227
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Does anyone think the Canada Line should be extended south 30 years from now to Delta? Because short of the Massey Tunnel being twinned, it could be impossible to cross the South Fraser in under 40 minutes by then.
i doubt the Canada Line could even handle all that additional ridership with the limited capacity it has. i hate bringing up the platform issue again, but they would need to spend quite a bit in digging up the underground sections in Vancouver so that the underground platforms can be lengthened for additional cars on the trains and of course, lengthened elevated platforms.

i'd think some sort of commuter rail service to the Canada Line's Bridgeport Station would be more proper, serving Delta, Tsawassen, White Rock, and Surrey.
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Old December 2nd, 2007, 09:02 AM   #2228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
Calgary's CTrain serves a population of just 1.02 mill compared to Translink's 2.2 mill but has higher ridership levels as does Ottawa with its bus-only Transitway.
The 351 from White Rock is a fast service to downtown and the same distance to downtown as is Langley but due to HOV it's actually faster than cars.

A few express buses from the valley to downtown would do wonders.
Again man look at the size of Calgary. The C-train goes all the way to the Southern tip of the city and has generally pretty good coverage in the Northwest and Northeast. Yes ridership is slightly better, but it is a pretty comprehensive system for the size of the city. If skytrain/LRT reached all of the town centres Vancouver would easily have much greater ridership.
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Old December 2nd, 2007, 09:09 AM   #2229
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One part of me says that Translink had a secret scheme to reduce funding and capacity because in 50 years they would decide to let Stevenson and Ladner to succomb to the rising sea levels. According to this a 3m rise in sea levels would erase almost all of the non-built up areas of Delta and Richmond. Perhaps a network of dykes would secure Stevenson, Richmond Centre, YVR, and New West. The 99 north of White Rock could be raised on a dyke to protect Surrey and Langley, and parts of Pitt Meadows would also be allowed to flood. Apart from the waterfront, Vancouver itself wouldn't be harmed so much. But on the plus side, it would be nice to have commuter ferries plying the waves between White Rock, Tsawassen, Richmond, and Cambie Station.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 08:34 AM   #2230
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Vancouver doesn't need SkyTrain to Langley or atleast not yet. There are too many other needs that must be met first. The MLine extention west is an obvious one but so too is an LRT down Hastings and Tri-City SkyTrain.
Also before they expand the SkyTrain they must first increase its capacity. Vancouverites have gotten use to SkyTrains so that the MK11 look "big". Compared to the TTC, SkyTrain cars are tonka-toys. All stations must be extended to atleast 8 car capacity {which they are designed for} and then triple the fleet so all trains are 8 to 9 car trains to even bring it close to subway capacity.
All these things will cost billions. Someday they will be done but that doesn't change the fact that Vancouver needs a good commuter bus system like GO.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 08:48 AM   #2231
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Quote:
Vancouver doesn't need SkyTrain to Langley or atleast not yet.
i agree. commuter rail or LRT will do for a long time to come.



Quote:
Also before they expand the SkyTrain they must first increase its capacity.
That goes for the Canada Line too....the station platform/capacity design is a complete joke. Give it 10 years, 15 max., and it'll be at its breaking point.




Quote:
All stations must be extended to atleast 8 car capacity {which they are designed for} and then triple the fleet so all trains are 8 to 9 car trains to even bring it close to subway capacity.
Which is more of a reason why the Evergreen Line needs to be SkyTrain. The Edmonds OMC is out of room for expansion space. It's currently undergoing a $30 million expansion to use the last of its available space to accommodate the 34 additional Mark II cars that will arrive in 2009. But that's all the vehicles it can handle, it can expand no more....which means that by building the SkyTrain Evergreen Line, a satellite OMC can be built to handle additional vehicles for the system.



Quote:
Someday they will be done but that doesn't change the fact that Vancouver needs a good commuter bus system like GO.
Lets see what the Premier has in mind in the coming months. As we all know, it's anticipated he'll announce something big to fulfill his climate change goals including doubling metro transit ridership, to levels like London and Hong Kong, to 22-24%.

His recent announcement of 20 buses in 2012, which has previously been announced will come at the expense of Translink and not the provincial government, was extremely dissapointing and pathetic.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old December 4th, 2007, 08:51 AM   #2232
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i took the WCE on friday afternoon out to mission to connect to abby via the central valley transit system. i was very suprised at the quality of the service and the speed of the journey. 28 minutes to Coq station and just over an hour to mission... from waterfront!. there are more trains scheduled than i though, 5 a day each way and 5 train busses. the system is in operation more or less the entire day when train bus is factored in. they just need to put some train busses on going against the rush hour for more flexibility in the system. i also overheard that they are putting a limited schedule trainbus on saturdays starting in the new year. that will be handy.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 08:55 AM   #2233
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^ do they really need to call it the "TrainBus"? i mean, that's just...

Call it the "E-Bus" or something for Express Bus.
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"My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is NOT a porn star." - Abe Simpson

"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old December 4th, 2007, 09:05 AM   #2234
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Some photo updates from CanadaLine.ca


This is a single-track guideway, meaning it is just south of Lansdowne Road. You can see at the bottom of the picture where double-tracking ends, where the track switch is:




A close up of the all important cables that hold the guideway segments together.




A tunnel in the sky!




Repaving Cambie Village




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"My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is NOT a porn star." - Abe Simpson

"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."

Last edited by mr.x; December 4th, 2007 at 10:19 AM.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 09:08 AM   #2235
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Well, I think more Skytrain cars are coming in a year or two. So that should make it possible to increase capacity. I think we're a ways away from needing the 8 car long trains. The technology we have should be fine as long as there are continued additions to the system (more cars, new lines etc.) to keep up with demand.

"Compared to the TTC, SkyTrain cars are tonka-toys." <<< Tonka-toys are fun. As long as it does the job, who cares? The density between downtown and Surrey wouldn't justify paying for a heavy rail line, especially 20 years ago... From what I've read, the Sheppard line in Toronto is a good example of what may have resulted if we built heavy rail to Surrey, just on a different scale.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 09:57 AM   #2236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x View Post

That goes for the Canada Line too....the station platform/capacity design is a complete joke. Give it 10 years, 15 max., and it'll be at its breaking point.
Does anyone have an idea what the costs might run for such an upgrade? With the Canada Line I would have to imagine that building a parallel route somewhere else will be the easier alternative when capacity begins to be reached.

The one thing I want to know is where are all these people going to come from? The population of Richmond is only 175,000 , and even if 20% of the population rode the line daily (never going to happen at this point) that would only be 35,000 people a day. Is the number of people expected to ride the Canada Line in Vancouver really supposed to be that high? Are reverse commuters going to play a significant role or something? I'm sorry if I'm missing something here :S

Last edited by Daguy; December 4th, 2007 at 10:08 AM.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 10:31 AM   #2237
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Quote:
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Does anyone have an idea what the costs might run for such an upgrade? With the Canada Line I would have to imagine that building a parallel route somewhere else will be the easier alternative when capacity begins to be reached.

The one thing I want to know is where are all these people going to come from? The population of Richmond is only 175,000 , and even if 20% of the population rode the line daily (never going to happen at this point) that would only be 35,000 people a day. Is the number of people expected to ride the Canada Line in Vancouver really supposed to be that high? Are reverse commuters going to play a significant role or something? I'm sorry if I'm missing something here :S
Well, consider that 500,000 people travel along the Vancouver-Richmond corridor each day.

-------

The 98 B-Line's 40,000 daily ridership would be transferred over to the Canada Line. Add in the many suburban buses that will now be terminating at the Canada Line, particularly at the new Bridgeport Station and Brighouse-RCC Station loops, funneling passengers into the system. Also add in the transit ridership that will be transferred from Vancouver bus routes onto the Canada Line. I remember that they said that would be another 30,000 bus ridership transplants. So far, the B-Line and bus transplant ridership figures sound quite reasonable....but of course, not all of this ridership will be transplanted over since some will not use the Canada Line as the bus route they were previously in was actually more convenient for them.

Then add in 30,000 from new ridership as a result of the Canada Line. That adds up to 100,000 passengers daily.

Realistically though, I think this is what will happen:

2010: 75,000-85,000/day
2011: 80,000-95,000/day
2012: 95,000-105,000/day
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old December 4th, 2007, 10:36 AM   #2238
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also keep in mind that people from all over the region will use it to travel between downtown, yaletown, broadway and oakridge/langara.

rumors have it that langara will be going to the u pass system by sumertime. also the 41st station will have high UBC bound traffic.

also richmond has more jobs than residents

i think it will be packed.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 11:17 AM   #2239
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Didn't Langara already approve the U-Pass program? It's supposed to start next semester...
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Old December 4th, 2007, 11:35 AM   #2240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldwide View Post
also keep in mind that people from all over the region will use it to travel between downtown, yaletown, broadway and oakridge/langara.

rumors have it that langara will be going to the u pass system by sumertime. also the 41st station will have high UBC bound traffic.

also richmond has more jobs than residents

i think it will be packed.
i agree. a system built with limited expansion capacity, and short 40/50-metre station platforms that are unexpandable, for a metro the size of Vancouver is completely unheard of. Even small cities build LRT systems with longer platforms to ensure additional future capacity.

i too think it will be packed, especially with only 20 trains purchased (16 trains online initially, then 18 trains in the future) with these frequencies:

INTIAL SERVICE PLAN in 2009/2010
7-day frequency (32 vehicles/16 trains required)

Early Morning
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes

Morning Peak Period
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs

Mid-Day
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs

Afternoon Peak Period
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs

Evening
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes

Late Night
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 10 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 20 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 20 minutes




SERVICE PLAN (will kick in when line gets busier)
7-day frequency (36 vehicles/18 trains required)

Early Morning
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes

Morning Peak Period
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs

Mid-Day
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs

Afternoon Peak Period
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs

Late Night
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 10 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 20 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 20 minutes
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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