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Old June 22nd, 2005, 11:10 PM   #221
ssiguy2
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Yes, they are having capacity problems which they are addressing with more CTRain car orders. They are also in the process of extending the stations to handle 4 car trains.
Translink SkyTrain is at capacity but that is because the cars are so small. The MK11 are smaller trains as they only are the equivalent of 3 MK1.
3 MK11 cars are approx the length of Toronto's subway trains.
The Millenium Line has cost $1.1 bil and many of those higher ridership numbers are due to transfers onto the SkyTrain not new revenue passengers.
For just 60% of the cost of the Mileenium Line Calgary's CTrain has managed to get ridership numbers 5 TIMES higher.
Looks like a pretty shitty investment to me.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 05:21 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
Vancouver simply doesn't have the density for this kind of RT. Sorry but 220,000 passengers a day for $2.4bil is really shitty when comp[ared to Calgary's CTrain with the same ridership, less rail, half the population for only $640.
I shudder to think what Translink could have done with that extra $1.8bil. We wouls have LRT and Commuter Rail all over greater Vancouver and much higher transit ridership as it has the lowest of the 5 largest metro areas in the country per-capita.
Great minds think alike. RAV is a farce and frankly, the most idiotic thing Greater Vancouver and the province of BC has ever embarked on. And the $1.8 billion price tag is solely the fault of those creme de la creme NIMBYs who don't want to see a train high above their homes! And now the Cambie NIMBYs don't even want a cut and cover since its "cheaper". WTF is that all about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
Somebody's gotta get new material, it's getting quite old and outdated................and maybe it's because he actually IS queetz.
I don't know who Queetz is but isn't he the guy you had a hilarious debate over at the old Highrise Canada forum? For all, check out the funny thread I bookmarked...

http://s4.invisionfree.com/Highrise_...hp?showtopic=5
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 05:30 AM   #223
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Well if you're just going by riders/dollar spent, then I think Ottawa's is one of the best transit systems there is, likely beating Calgary. If that's all there is to it, then I guess BRT is the answer?

Long-term capacity is a valid concern in my opinion.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 07:22 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
The LRT will be fine. Look at the Millenium Line and what incredible poor ridership levels they are getting.
I think M-line was built wrong but it is hardly a complete waste. RAV should have been built first but the Millenium line doesn't get bad ridership levels at all. In fact I heard it gets some where in the neighbourhood of 70,000 riders a day, less then the 125,000 the Expo line gets but ridership is growing and so is development around the stations.


Quote:
I'm sorry, are you talking to me? I'm for building the RAV line now, with what's already proposed and approved.

I should have used quotes, I guess I'm more used to italics. I was quoting ssiguy2 with his "I hope they stop the RAV, Translink has lied from start to finish.".
Sorry I didn't understand that you were quoting SSIGUY2.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 07:24 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Great minds think alike. RAV is a farce and frankly, the most idiotic thing Greater Vancouver and the province of BC has ever embarked on. And the $1.8 billion price tag is solely the fault of those creme de la creme NIMBYs who don't want to see a train high above their homes! And now the Cambie NIMBYs don't even want a cut and cover since its "cheaper". WTF is that all about?



I don't know who Queetz is but isn't he the guy you had a hilarious debate over at the old Highrise Canada forum? For all, check out the funny thread I bookmarked...

http://s4.invisionfree.com/Highrise_...hp?showtopic=5


Hello queetz.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 07:35 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjoeda
I think M-line was built wrong but it is hardly a complete waste. RAV should have been built first but the Millenium line doesn't get bad ridership levels at all. In fact I heard it gets some where in the neighbourhood of 70,000 riders a day, less then the 125,000 the Expo line gets but ridership is growing and so is development around the stations.
I agree.

Brentwood/Gilmore has developed into a high-rise neighborhood almost as impressive as Metrotown. And there's dozens more construction projects.


Rupert/Renfrew haven't had much increase in density YET but the lots are there, and the demand is there, and they will.


Once the coquitlam LRT is connected the M-line will be linked with Coquitlam and Poco.





All these things, plus the inevitable extension of M-line to at the very least Cambie makes me think it in no way whatsoever was a waste.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 01:16 PM   #227
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^ Yeah exactly, they should of finished it when they started building it, and obviously we think many years ahead when building these kinds of transportation projects, that LRT wouldnt cut it here in the future.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 06:39 PM   #228
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TransLink approves parking tax
You'll pay more as businesses pass on costs to customers

Frank Luba
The Province

Thursday, June 23, 2005

TransLink's approval yesterday of a new parking tax means businesses will have to pay more for transportation improvements.

About $20 million will be raised annually by the new tax, with about five per cent being paid annually to the B.C. Assessment Authority to maintain the parking rolls and pay for the appeals process.

Business has never liked the tax but John Winter, president of the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, tried to be optimistic yesterday about the tax going toward TransLink's $1.9 billion 2005-2007 spending plans.

"Let's hope we begin to reap some of the benefits of it in the short term rather than the long term," he said.

One of those benefits was approved yesterday.

The purchase of 50 more buses for $25.7 million will be moved up to 2006 and 2007 instead of 2008 and 2009.

Winter is convinced the tax will end up being paid by customers.

"In many cases, perhaps most cases, they will be passed on to the consumer," he said. "It could have an inflationary impact.

"If it's a mall, it will be passed on to the tenant, who in turn will pass it on to the end user."

Board member David Cadman didn't have a lot of sympathy for businesses balking at the tax.

"The retail sector consistently says they are opposed to it but they are consistently in favour of us improving public transit, specifically the RAV project," said Cadman, a Vancouver councillor. "You can't have it both ways.

"You can't say, 'We want improvements, put RAV in, but don't ask us to pay for it, ask the riders to pay for it, ask the homeowner to pay for it.'"

Homeowners are already paying higher taxes to TransLink, and transit fares went up Jan. 1.

The parking tax begins in 2006.

Maple Ridge Mayor Kathy Morse was the only board member to vote against it.

"Mostly it's because I struggled with the equity of charging everybody the same rate," said Morse.

She objected to the way the tax will be imposed, with a shopping centre in an area with limited bus service being charged the same $30 or so per stall as another mall with more frequent bus service and rapid transit.

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Old June 24th, 2005, 03:51 AM   #229
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Free-fare zone needed downtown: city report
Last updated Jun 23 2005 03:22 PM PDT
CBC News


CBC NEWS – A report prepared for Vancouver city council has recommended a series of sweeping changes, including the elimination of bus fares in the downtown core.

The Vancouver and UBC Transit Plan also calls for changes to the practice of charging more for short trips across existing transit zone boundaries.

LINK: City transit report (pdf) (Large 234-page file – 11.89 MB)

There's also a call for expanded bus service. The report says TransLink should establish new routes along 33rd Avenue, Cambie Street and Renfrew – from Hastings to McGill.

It also says bus lanes are needed along Broadway.

Vancouver city council will discuss the report at a public hearing next Wednesday, and decide whether the report should be endorsed and forwarded to TransLink.

Bus Riders Union spokesperson Beth Grayer welcome the suggestions of fare reductions, but says the politicians need to take the proposal further.

"While that's great, that we really do need free zones," she says. "What we need more than anything is either a free zone for the entire system or a lower fare that people can actually afford."

Grayer says the fare reductions could easily be paid for if TransLink scrapped the $1.7-billion RAV rapid-transit line between Richmond and Vancouver.

--------------------------------------------------

I think this is a great idea.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 03:56 AM   #230
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^ Excellent idea. Portland also has a no-fare zone downtown & it's worked quite well.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 05:11 AM   #231
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The CTrain in downtown Calgary is also free.
Would it only be certain routes? ie Davie/Robson
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Old June 24th, 2005, 05:48 AM   #232
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I'm lazy so I'll just repost what I said in the Canada section with regards to the free fare zone.

Portland also does not exactly submit to the whims of the creme de la creme that results in skyrocketing construction costs to our rail lines. Perhaps this is why our MAX LRT is heralded as one of the best in the continent for it is built based on sound planning, not politics. This can be seen in its extensiveness to reach more people, a large impact in rejuvinating run down neighborhoods, and has successfully created transit malls and transit oriented development.

Plus Portland does not exactly demand its suburbs to pay and subsidize transit improvements that only benefits the inner city. Given that Translink is a regional transportation authority, why should Vancouver have a free fare zone while other town centers in the GVRD does not? Perhaps if Vancouver were to form its own transit authority instead of relying on some poor shmoe in Maple Ridge to pay for a subway line that he will never use, then you can have a free fare zone all you like within your city boundaries.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 07:16 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Plus Portland does not exactly demand its suburbs to pay and subsidize transit improvements that only benefits the inner city. Given that Translink is a regional transportation authority, why should Vancouver have a free fare zone while other town centers in the GVRD does not?
I assume there's a special tax on those who own property or run businesses within the affected area to pay for it. Is that not how it works over there?
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Old June 24th, 2005, 07:35 AM   #234
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^ A large chunk of Tri Met's funding is from payroll tax while the rest are from fares, federal and state grants. I do know that there are actually tax exemptions for building transit oriented developments in the city.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 08:53 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
^ A large chunk of Tri Met's funding is from payroll tax while the rest are from fares, federal and state grants. I do know that there are actually tax exemptions for building transit oriented developments in the city.
I imagine there would be an extra tax specifically on those who own property in the free transit area, most likely an extra levy slapped onto their property taxes or something.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 09:17 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Plus Portland does not exactly demand its suburbs to pay and subsidize transit improvements that only benefits the inner city. Given that Translink is a regional transportation authority, why should Vancouver have a free fare zone while other town centers in the GVRD does not? Perhaps if Vancouver were to form its own transit authority instead of relying on some poor shmoe in Maple Ridge to pay for a subway line that he will never use, then you can have a free fare zone all you like within your city boundaries.
I'm curious, since Tri-Met serves three counties, does each county raise their own funds to subsidize/fund transit improvements that benefit their own area/county?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
^ A large chunk of Tri Met's funding is from payroll tax while the rest are from fares, federal and state grants. I do know that there are actually tax exemptions for building transit oriented developments in the city.
This is the missing link in Translink's funding puzzle. Translink needs access to income tax revenue...the feds/province should cut their own income taxes and pass it down to the cities. Also, the level of public transportation grants up here in Canada is way less than the US. This has to change.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 10:19 AM   #237
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^ All Tri-Met counties generally have the same level of service and is covered by the main rapid transit system and because of the way the revenue is raised, its a much more equitable solution. And given that a large chunk of revenue are from payroll and most of the employment center in Portland are in the downtown area, its only rightfully so that there is a free zone since the downtown workforce has more than paid for their share of the transit services.

But in the GVRD, it is clear that there are numerous areas are much more disadvantaged than others. For example, half of the expenditure on Translink's $4 billion plan benefits mainly the city of Vancouver and yet most of the GVRD residents don't live with that city. Also, the tax dollars raised are far more from the suburbs, as well as it is there where the growing employment centers are.

North Shore is a good example of this inequity. Because of the high value of their homes, they pay a large proportion of the property tax revenue. And yet that area has so little service improvements. Richmond on the other hand, generally pays less and has had a poor track record on developing transit oriented development and yet they reap a large chunk of the rewards. And let me remind you again that the sole reason why RAV is so expensive is because of demands by a segement of the city of Vancouver's population to tunnel, the creme de la creme, and yet people from Maple Ridge still have to pay for their outrageous demands.

And one more thing I notice in the US is most if not all mega projects go through an actual vote. So whether the project is a cheap useless BRT corridor or a $2 billion monorail system, the fact of the matter is Americans do have a choice and the outcome is purely a result in exercising that choice. In Greater Vancouver, it seems the public's opinion to justify support for RAV is based on a casual survey in a mall.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 10:45 AM   #238
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No fare downtown would be so great! Portland is an excellent example. Downtown residence must pay higher tax for it though.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 08:19 PM   #239
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Council to vote on fare-free downtown zone

Jennifer Miller
Vancouver Sun

Friday, June 24, 2005

City council will vote on recommendations for a complete review of transit fares and a fare-free zone for downtown Vancouver after a public hearing at city hall Wednesday evening.

The recommendations, made by city engineers, are over and above proposals in a draft plan for transit in Vancouver over the next five years. A fare review cannot be included in the plan because it would apply to all regions, not just Vancouver.

Called the Vancouver and UBC transit plan, it is a joint effort between the city and TransLink, with input from the Coast Mountain bus company, the University of B.C. and a public advisory committee. Part of the plan is to give buses more priority on city streets, and a pilot project is proposed for the Broadway corridor.

Any fare review or free travel would have to be approved by TransLink, whose officials have "shuddered" at the idea so far, said Coun. Fred Bass, who was on two advisory committees that contributed to the plan.

He said in an interview Thursday that letting riders travel for free downtown would help buses move faster because there would be no delays while people pay their fares.

It would also encourage more people to leave their cars at home instead of fighting for limited parking downtown, he said.

"If you can very efficiently move people short distances and you have a steady flow of people getting in and out of the buses, then in fact the overall payoff to the flow of the city...may be enormous."

The idea comes from other locations that offer free transit. Portland's "Fareless Square" includes most of downtown, and Belgium recently made commuter trains free.

The suggestions for a fare review include changes so people who cross zone boundaries even though they travel short distances wouldn't have to pay so much, said Bass, adding that he would also like to see an end to fare increases every few years.

The transit plan going to council Wednesday includes new strategies to reduce transit travel times for the busiest bus route in the city -- the Broadway corridor. Designated bus lanes, technology that adjusts the length of traffic lights to accommodate buses, and getting people on board faster are part of a proposed pilot project for the congested area.

"The system has become quite inefficient," said John Schnablegger, a city engineer and co-author of the transit plan report. There has been a decline in reliability and travel times, especially on Broadway, he said.

The No. 99 B-line and the No. 9 bus routes carry about 60,000 transit riders along Broadway every day -- and according to city projections, overall B-line boardings are expected to increase by 40 per cent over the next five years.

To help keep the buses moving along the thoroughfair, curb lanes should become designated for buses during rush hour, Schnablegger said. But he said he doesn't know how much this might improve travel times, since those lanes are already used mostly by transit vehicles.

"Between the No. 9 and the B-line service, I mean, they pretty well own those curb lanes," he said.

So far, there is no plan to remove parking in those lanes during off-peak hours, but it might be considered in the future as ridership continues to increase.

"If you're going to have a serious bus system...then you have to give priority to transit vehicles," said Bass. "It's very simple."

To help reduce waiting times at lights, technology on the B-line buses would extend a green light or turn a light green sooner so buses don't have to stop at intersections. This is already being used on Granville Street for the No. 98 B-line, said Schnablegger.

Getting riders on board faster is also expected to speed up travel times. The pilot project includes allowing passengers to get on through all doors, not just the front, and a proposal for new payment technology called smart-cards that would deduct fares electronically without passengers even having to take the card out of their pockets, he said.

All-door boarding is already taking place on the B-line because there are so many riders, but inspectors would be added to check fares and make the practice more formalized.

Parts of the Broadway project, such as keeping lights green for buses, could begin within a matter of weeks and the route is a "test ground" for other areas in the city that need help moving transit along, Schnablegger said. The transit plan identifies Hastings Street, 41st Avenue, Main Street and Burrard Street as other hot spots for delays.

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Old June 25th, 2005, 01:08 AM   #240
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I think that free zones downtown are great, especially considering how high the fares are in Vancouver.
Vancouver says its one zone is cheaper than Toronto's which is true. The reality thouh is that the TTC serves ALL of the city of Toronto. This means the original city plus the inner suburbs {ie NorthYork,Scar, E.York,Eto} while Vancouver's does not.
If Vancouver was to serve the same area it would be the equivalent of Zone 1&2 making it a hell of an expensive system considering its poor service quality compared to the TTC.
Therefore, if the downtowners can get a break then I say great.
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