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Old February 2nd, 2008, 02:38 AM   #2541
Nutterbug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
LRT out, Skytrain in?
http://www.translink.bc.ca/About_Tra...ws02010801.asp



Yea they're starting to test the new system on random trolley, 99 B-Line, 160, 169, 701, and a couple other routes' trips. They're asking passengers to send feedback and once they work out all the kinks roll out the system to all routes.
Why haven't the 160's ever been converted to express coaches with well cushioned reclining seats? They run at least as long as some of the South Delta buses that do.
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 04:12 AM   #2542
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www.th.gov.bc.ca/evergreen_line/

The ministry of transportation's website has a link to the "Business Case Executive Summary" for the Evergreen line, which gives detail on why Skytrain has been selected for this line.
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 04:22 AM   #2543
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Why haven't the 160's ever been converted to express coaches with well cushioned reclining seats? They run at least as long as some of the South Delta buses that do.
I guess so they don't steal riders from the West Coast Express...
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 04:30 AM   #2544
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i guess Ravman was wrong about the Premier not fulfilling his Evergreen Line promises afterall.
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 05:10 AM   #2545
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Like I said yesterday.....


ALRT TECHNOLOGY RECOMMENDED FOR EVERGREEN LINE

Ministry of Transportation | Translink
News Release - February 1, 2008

VANCOUVER – The Province and TransLink today released the business case for the rapid transit Evergreen Line, and confirmed advanced light rapid transit (ALRT or SkyTrain-like technology) as the recommended technology, announced Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon and TransLink CEO Pat Jacobsen.

“We have now completed a thorough business case for the now revised $1.4-billion Evergreen Line to serve the northeast sector of Metro Vancouver,” said Falcon. “The Province will increase its financial commitment to $400 million and will use this business case to seek matching funding from the federal government.”

A key finding of the business case, produced in partnership by TransLink and the Province, is the recommendation to use ALRT as the technology for the Evergreen Line. ALRT is automated and grade-separated, on tracks above, below or segregated from the street.

“The capacity to move more passengers more quickly in peak commute times has become a greater priority for transit generally and especially so in the Northeast Sector,” said Jacobsen. “ALRT clearly has the advantage in this regard. The Province’s commitment of additional funding for the Evergreen Line and the prospect of federal support will bridge what has turned out to be a relatively small gap in costs between LRT and ALRT, which makes the business case conclusion a sound one.”

ALRT technology on the Evergreen Line has higher construction costs than LRT, but significantly lower annual operating costs, significantly shorter travel times for commuters, and two and a half times more ridership by 2021.

“We have decided on ALRT for the Evergreen Line because it is the best technology to help us reach our Transit Plan goal of doubling transit ridership, supporting denser and more livable communities, while contributing to our climate change goals,” said Falcon. “We also agree that this project is a strong candidate for public-private partnership, and we will be further reviewing it to confirm that a P3 is the best method of project delivery.”

The business case determined that the previously adopted Northwest corridor has slight technical advantages over the Southeast route. The Northwest route travels adjacent to the Canadian Pacific rail line through Port Moody. Both routes start at the Millennium Line Lougheed station and terminate near Douglas College in Coquitlam.

The Province and TransLink have asked area mayors to provide feedback over the next 45 days. This spring, TransLink and the Ministry of Transportation will make a final decision on routing in order to keep on track for a targeted 2014 completion.

Please visit www.th.gov.bc.ca/evergreen_line/ for a copy of the Executive Summary and Report.



The provincial government will be contributing $400 million, Translink another $400 million, and the federal government will also be contributing $400 million. Total cost of the project is $1.2 billion.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 05:15 AM   #2546
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One thing I don't understand though is why should it take to 2014 to complete a NW Skytrain route if they plan to have the preferred alternative decided by May of this year. That's 6 years from now, seems like a long time.
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 05:47 AM   #2547
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^ well, consider that Canada Line construction began in 2005 and will end in 2009....a construction start date of maybe 2010 and a completion date in 2014 sounds about right.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 07:31 AM   #2548
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I have a hunch they will upgrade and extend the Expo Line first, a starting later this year for the station work, and then do the Evergreen SkyTrain Line (that's satisfying to write), and then the Millennium Line to UBC.

Here is the map from the Province's business case document.

(Source)

Some key items from the business plan.


(Source)


(Source)


(Source)


(Source)
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 08:37 AM   #2549
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Here is the map from the Province's business case document for the SkyTrain Evergreen Line.

(Source)

Some key items from the business plan.


(Source)


(Source)


(Source)


(Source)
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 09:41 AM   #2550
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Ultimately, they can't make full use of the extended Expo Line platforms until they have enough rolling stock to run the 6-car MKII trains at sufficient frequency to sustain frequent service on the line.
The 2009 order of cars will probably allow them to run more 4-car MKIIs but not sure if that would allow 6-Car MKIIs (it would probably allow 6-car MKIs which already fit the platforms).
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 07:45 PM   #2551
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I'm not surprised but still its great news.
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Old February 3rd, 2008, 03:26 AM   #2552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
i guess Ravman was wrong about the Premier not fulfilling his Evergreen Line promises afterall.
2014 is still a ways away. as i have mentioned earlier, the foundation for the line is done already like the switches and the third track.. i mean ill believe it when i see the final product done in or before 2014
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Old February 3rd, 2008, 03:42 AM   #2553
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New map, probably last one for a long time:



I know the Downtown area is pretty messy. I should've left for space for it.

Last edited by deasine; February 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 12:00 AM   #2554
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Amazing eh....

Millennium Line, 21km, $1.167 billion = $56 million / km (less than 5% cut&covered).
Canada Line, 19km, $1.9 billion = $100 million / km (around 40% cut&covered, 12% bored).
Evergreen Line, 12km, $1.2-1.4 billion = $100-$117 million / km (around 10-15% bored).

Better get on it before prices go up even more.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 01:38 AM   #2555
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^ they probably could've finished the SkyTrain Evergreen Line in 2002 for only $600-700 million....that is now $1.2 billion.

BTW, it's actually around 20-25% that will need to be bored for the Evergreen Line...approx. 3-kms of the 11-km line.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old February 5th, 2008, 02:49 AM   #2556
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3 km would be a pretty big chunk of the Evergreen Line. I'm not very familiar with the area where the tunnel would be going. Anyone know if there is any sense in having an underground station, or would it just be passing through no-man's land? I guess the whole point of it going under, is to deal with the steep grade.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 03:52 AM   #2557
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The following is the text for the business case document reformatted somewhat for easier reading on this forum:

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pdf...ckgrounder.pdf


BACKGROUNDER

BUSINESS CASE RELEASED:
ALRT TECHNOLOGY ON EVERGREEN LINE

Benefits of ALRT for Evergreen Line:

The business case recommends ALRT for the Evergreen Line because it:
· will accommodate two and a half times the ridership of LRT (2021), ensuring it will meet current and future demand and support the Provincial Transit Plan goal of doubling ridership by 2020;
· will enable faster travel time – almost half the time from Coquitlam Town Centre to Lougheed Town Centre (12.6 minutes versus 23.6 minutes for LRT on the Northwest route, for example);
· has more frequent schedules – every three minutes versus five minutes for LRT;
· will easily integrate with the current rapid transit system, notably the Millennium Line.

Route Description
· Northwest Route from Lougheed Station, elevated on North Road to Burquitlam, then tunnelled to Port Moody where it runs at-grade parallel to the Canadian Pacific Rail right-of-way to Coquitlam West Coast Express Station, then elevated on Pinetree terminating near Douglas College in Coquitlam.
· Southeast Route from Lougheed Station, elevated on the south/east side of Lougheed Highway to Coquitlam West Coast Express Station, continuing north on Pinetree terminating near Douglas College in Coquitlam.


Capital and Operating Costs (2007 dollars)

Capital Costs NW CORRIDOR
ALRT $1.4 billion
LRT $1.25 billion

Capital Costs SE CORRIDOR
ALRT $1.4 billion
LRT $1.1 billion

Annual Operation & Maintenance Costs NW CORRIDOR
ALRT $10.2 million
LRT $15.3 million

Annual Operation & Maintenance Costs SE CORRIDOR
ALRT $10.8 million
LRT $15.1 million

Operating Cost per Passenger (at 2021) NW CORRIDOR
ALRT $0.45
LRT $1.70

Operating Cost per Passenger (at 2021) SE CORRIDOR
ALRT $0.48
LRT $1.49


Summary of Alternative Frequency, Capacity and Operating Speed

Frequency: time between trains (minutes)
ALRT 3.0
LRT 5.0

Maximum Operating Speed (km/hr)
ALRT 80
LRT 60

Peak Hour Capacity (2021)
ALRT 10,400
LRT 4,080


Summary of Route and Technology Characteristics

Total Distance (kilometres) NW CORRIDOR
ALRT 10.9
LRT 11.2

Total Distance (kilometres) SE CORRIDOR
ALRT 12.6
LRT 12.6

Total Travel Time (minutes) NW CORRIDOR
ALRT 12.6
LRT 23.6

Total Travel Time (minutes) SE CORRIDOR
ALRT 14.8
LRT 17.7

Annual Riders (000’s – 2021) NW CORRIDOR
ALRT 22,900
LRT 9,000

Annual Riders (000’s – 2021) SE CORRIDOR
ALRT 22,500
LRT 10,300


For more information on government services or to subscribe to the Province’s news feeds using RSS, visit the Province’s website at www.gov.bc.ca.

Last edited by greg_christine; February 5th, 2008 at 04:33 AM.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 08:42 AM   #2558
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That is a very nice map deasine! Did you make it in Illustrator?
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Old February 5th, 2008, 10:06 AM   #2559
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Wow I would love to know how to make it with illustrator... no I didn't... used Visio - which is a Microsoft program designed for flowcharts... But you can make maps with it (though it's really bad for maps).

I didn't use any of the map features, but drew a series of lines and shapes then did some editing in photoshop then back on visio. It's really bad... as in the curves... actually just look at Scott Road station on the expo line.

But thank you =)
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Old February 6th, 2008, 08:55 AM   #2560
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I think the Evergreen Line should be included into the MLine running from downtown and splitting south to Newest north to Coq not part of Expo line. Leave the Expo as a single route especially now that Expo is being expanded both in lenght and capacity.

ie current> Waterfront >>>>Broadway >>>>NuWest >>>>Surrey
>>>>Lougheed/Commercial
The line shouldn't split but just have the EXPO strickly go to Surrey


The MLine down Broadway should go to Lougheed and the split one to Coq and one to NuWest.

There is no point of getting more MK11 cars and bigger platforms if the trains can't fit into the MLine stations.
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