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Old June 8th, 2008, 06:12 AM   #2961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
One thing that REALLY pisses me off it the whole UBC SkyTrain and RAV is that they HAD to be underground because if not it would be an eyesore so we can spend a couple of extra billion between the two to keep the Westsiders {who are the least likely to take transit in the first place} appeased. They get better transit, huge increases in their property values {like they need it} and still maintaining the Westsiders fine sensabilities.

Translink and the city had no problem with making the poor eastsiders have to put up with it.
Before I begin, I do live in the Vancouver East Side.

Back when the Expo Line was built in 1986, much of the line SkyTrain is running through today was industrial lands, the largest of which is off Joyce station. There's no point of running SkyTrain underground because of that.

Even as an Eastsider, I would much rather have C-Line underground, although I was a little pissed off when they rejected C-Line to be at-grade around QE Park. That would've saved loads of money, even potentially upgrading us to longer platforms, and we wouldn't be destroying the Cambie Heritage Blvd would we? Sigh...

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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
Anyway, seeing Clarke stuck us with SkyTrain down Lougheed it is basically imperative that it be continued to atleast Cambie/RAV and possibly down to Granville/Arbutus but that's it. Ideally it would be great to have it all the way to UBC but that can wait as there are too many other priorities first. Hasting comes to mind which after the BLine hits Granville is a far busier route and much more congested. The BLine can also be relieved by BLine down Joyce and 4th Ave if needed. There are no such alternatives for Hastings.

Right now Broadway carries 2 routes that serve it east of Arbutus and it runs very well and after Alma it flyes. Hastings on the other hand has to handle 5 regular buses, one BLine and has 2 buses only parelling it just one block north to handle the traffic. This does not even include rush-hour buses. After Arbutus Hastings is a FAR, FAR busier bus route and congested than Broadway will ever be. Also, Broadway West is built up as much as it can be while Hastings has huge areas that can be used for huigh density residential epecially between Clarke and Commercial.
I agree about the Hastings and it's funny how there aren't any plans from TransLink bringing LRT or SkyTrain through that corridor. It's only a mere concept at the moment.

But remember, the Broadway Corridor is slated to be an extension of the Metro Downtown core [a larger priority than Hastings]. Metro Vancouver plans to have huge developments throughout the entire Broadway corridor. Because of this, I believe SkyTrain is a much better choice and should be done all the way to UBC. It's only an additional 7 km after all, and part of it could be at-grade (Spirit Park).

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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
The long term plans are also oh so typical of Vancouver elitism. The gov has said that in the long term they would like to see LRT down Hastings. A good idea but again the Westsiders get an expensive, fast, tunneled SkyTrain but Eastsiders have LRT and only in "the future".
Again, Hastings LRT is only a mere concept at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if this would be upgraded to SkyTrain in the future based on Vancouver's rapid transit plans. Millennium Line was supposed to be LRT but then NDP made it SkyTrain. Canada Line was supposed to be LRT and then the BC Liberals upgraded it to SkyTrain (but then Bombardier lost the bid so it's conventional rail instead).

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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
I do not agree with building trams/streetcars where they are just a regular streetcar. It seems like a waste of money to me. LRT on the other hand is a different situation. ROW, spaced stations, reduction of left-hand turns/lanes. That would require Translink/Vancouver to put their money where their fat mouths are and actually make transit the #1 priority and that is not the case in Vancouver.............just look at how the #98 BLine was suppose to be but again that it would have been neccessary to inconvience the Shaughnessy crowd.
Partially agree. It really depends on the situation. In the article, I think it's a huge waste of money bringing streetcars down some corridors. Electric trolleys, though it's not as attractive, is perfect as it is right now.

Again, with the #98, it was supposed to be LRT in Arbutus, but then the area voted no to that [how stupid]. Then they moved the LRT study to Cambie and they voted no to that as well. But when the Provincial Government stepped in, it was basically ignored the votes and went ahead with Cambie, which is a smarter thing to do. There will be future developments on Cambie and Oakridge is slated to be the next municipal town centre.

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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
LRT down Commercial/Victoria, Main St, King George, 4th Ave, Arbutus, Joyce, Scott Rd station to Newton, and Hastings all the way to Port Moody and also up to SFU if possible due to the mountain.

All these possible routes are being sacraficed to appease our non-transit users in the Westside.
I know you like to advocate for transit, but blaming others isn't a good thing.

LRT down Commercial/Victoria = I would like to see too =D But then I want to see more development along Victoria, meaning we should wait a few more years, before we do that.

Main Street LRT? Hmmm... runs parallel with the Canada Line so I'm not too sure about that one.

4th Avenue LRT... I wouldn't think it's needed. A Streetcar would be nice.

Hastings LRT = needed. I would even lengthen it down SFU to Production Way-University.

King George LRT = yes. After RapidBus, it will become a LRT. Or at least it's in TransLink's long term plans.

Scott Road to Newton LRT. I would change it to a DMU to Langley.

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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
Toronto has decided that even with a much denser city and a metro care 3 times as large, that LRT is the way to go with selected tunnel sections and only small subway extentions which were originally the province's idea. This is how great cities build great transit systems. In this day and age where employment centres{especially Vancouver}/cultural venues/ population diversity is decentralized it is imperativve to serve all the metro with excellent transit which affordable LRT can do and an expensive little UBC subway won't.
Like I said, Toronto already has an amazing subway network and there are plans to lengthen this even more. Yes there is LRT, but because there is an established subway network, they can find other alternatives. Vancouver, well not really... By 2020, I don't see a huge point in investing on SkyTrain technology, but rather LRT instead. Maybe when Fraser Highway and Langley sees some density and development, we can consider having SkyTrain running to Langley... but that's off in the WAY future.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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June 02, 2008
Metro Vancouver buses break through barrier: achieve full accessibility

It has been almost 118 years to the day since the first streetcar rolled out in the city of Vancouver, and today, the last physical barrier to public transportation has officially been broken down. Metro Vancouver’s transit system can now be declared fully accessible.

“TransLink is buses, SkyTrain, West Coast Express and SeaBus,” noted Chair Dale Parker. “This wide variety of vehicles, plus the size of the Metro Vancouver, makes it a major challenge to make public transportation available to all. Finding the right technologies and route plans to do that is a huge task, and the people who have been involved with this over the decades should be pleased to know their efforts have paid off.”

Those efforts have taken almost 19 years of concerted effort, since BC Transit, TransLink’s predecessor, committed in 1989 to purchase only accessible vehicles, either low floor with ramp or high floor with lifts.

The last hurdle to be cleared was in the acquisition of trolley buses. The now-retired fleet of New Flyer E902s all had high floors and steps, which made them inaccessible for people with wheelchairs and scooters. That fleet has now been completely replaced by new trolleys with low floors, ramps and more unencumbered floor space, to better accommodate people with mobility problems, as well as seniors, the visually impaired, and parents with small children.

“When we declared the first two accessible routes last year,” Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan added, “a citizen asked us how people in wheelchairs managed in the old streetcar days. The sad truth is, they didn’t. Barriers that were accepted as a fact of life for almost a century no longer exist now, and this is an historic day for all people in the city of Vancouver and the entire region.”

TransLink and CMBC continue to work closely with the disability community, particularly the Access Transit Users Advisory Committee, ensuring the current high level of service is maintained, and new challenges are dealt with quickly and effectively as they arise.

Media Backgrounder: Accessibility and Public Transit in Greater Vancouver

Vancouver’s first streetcar went into service in June 1890, and with the high floors and steps on those vehicles and the rubber-tired buses that followed them, it was extremely difficult, if not impossible, for people with wheelchairs and other mobility aids to use public transportation. That situation persisted for the better part of a century.

Nonetheless, British Columbia has been a leader in North America in making public transportation truly “public”. The US Congress passed the Urban Mass Transit Act in 1970, mandating wheelchair lifts on new buses, but it wasn’t implemented until 1990; in 1975, Wheel-Trans began in Toronto. But in 1980, British Columbia inaugurated HandyDART service – the first province in Canada to have such a service province-wide.

Since then, governments and regional public transportation authorities have worked alongside advocacy groups such as ComPACT, BC Paraplegic Association, the Social Planning and Research Council of BC (SPARC BC), and BC Association for Persons with Disabilities to plan and implement accessibility in transit.

BC Transit, which operated public transportation in Metro Vancouver until 1999, adopted a policy of full accessibility on public transit buses in 1989. Implementation of that began in 1990, when 86 lift-equipped buses went into service in Greater Vancouver, and in 1992, BC Transit became the first system in North America to put low-floor buses into service.

In 1996, following a report indicating 3.2% of Greater Vancouver’s population was “transportation disabled” (higher than the national average of 2.7%) and 10% “mobility or agility disabled”, BC Transit Vancouver committed to purchase only low-floor buses.

With all non-electric buses either low-floor or lift-equipped (including highway coaches) and SkyTrain, SeaBus and West Coast Express all low floor and accessible, trolleys were left as the last non-accessible transit vehicles in Metro Vancouver. But over the last 15 years, bus manufacturers have redesigned their frames to accommodate almost any power train with the floor at curb level; that technology was then adapted to the electric trolleys.

In April 2007, two routes – the #5 Robson and #6 Davie – were officially declared accessible, becoming the first trolley routes ever in Vancouver with that designation.

It takes more than a new bus to make a transit route “accessible”. Bus stops have to accommodate wheelchairs, scooters, etc. In the City of Vancouver, 65 per cent of bus stops – 1,254 out of 1,916 – are accessible. In all of Metro Vancouver, just over half the stops are accessible. Coast Mountain Bus Co. and local road agencies work together to respond to reasonable requests to upgrade any non-accessible stop as those requests come in.

How does Metro Vancouver compare to other systems?
By comparison, Metro Vancouver is well in the lead among the three largest Canadian cities. In Montréal, 65 per cent of the fleet of 1593 buses is low-floor accessible, but the remaining 560 buses do not have wheelchair lifts. The three most recently built stations on the Métro system are the only ones built with elevators: a retrofit program is underway, which will see all Métro stations equipped with elevators over the next 25 years.

Toronto’s transit system has 1545 buses, of which more than 1200 are accessible (about 80 per cent); 117 of the 167 bus routes are accessible. None of the streetcars is accessible, but the next generation of streetcar purchases – going into service between 2011 and 2018 – will be all accessible. All subway cars are accessible, but as of the end of 2007, only about a third of the stations were.

Where do we go from here?
TransLink’s efforts to make the transit system accessible do not end with making sure wheelchairs can drive on and drive off. In early 2005, TransLink launched the Access Transit Project, one of the most extensive reviews of transit accessibility undertaken in North America. Reviews, in consultation with the Access Transit Users Advisory Committee, are continuing into every aspect of the entire transit system, breaking down barriers as they are found.

Among the initiatives both underway and in planning:

* Universal Accessibility Guidelines to be applied to all TransLink projects

* Travel training programs like “Bus Buddies” and “Transit Ambassadors”

* More and standardized training for front-line staff in serving and assisting people with disabilities

* Improvements planned for Broadway and Main Street Stations include new access features

* A new service delivery model for HandyDART as of January 2009, providing a more seamless and inclusive transit system that integrates bus, rail, ferry and custom transit

* Increasing HandyDART service hours by 58,000 (10 per cent) this year, and another 58,000 hours in each of 2009 and 2010; an additional 25 HandyDART vehicles will be added in each of those three years, as well.

* “Wayfinding” – helping people know which way to turn in a SkyTrain station or transit exchange – is currently under review. Signage will use more international icons and less text.

* SkyTrain recently completed a retrofit of all 33 stations, to install yellow “tactile strips” on the platform edges. These “warning tracks”, developed in cooperation with the disability community, alert a visually impaired person that they’re getting close to the edge of the platform.

* Through 2008, Coast Mountain Buses are being equipped with annunciators – automated “next stop” announcements over the bus PA system.

* In 2007, SkyTrain began offering customer information in over 100 languages.

* Making the TransLink website (www.translink.bc.ca) more user-friendly and accessible.

Also in 2007, TransLink partnered with Google to become the first Canadian system to offer trip planning on Google Transit, enabling people all over the world to receive transit information for Metro Vancouver in at least 15 languages.

Last edited by deasine; June 8th, 2008 at 06:24 AM.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 06:59 AM   #2962
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As sexy it would be to be able to take subway out to a campus in the middle of a park at the end of a relatively sparse peninsula, I doubt the extension will go ahead anytime soon. Subways are designed to connect high density nodes together at 1.5km intervals and 800 metres in downtown areas. Stops on the line between granville and ubc (alma, blanca, etc) are almost useless. A better and cheaper option will be to run a fast bus that doesn't do stops after granville/broadway. After arbutus, it's pretty much all low density residential, so despite how popular the stations will be at each end of the line, there's no logic in running a subway though those other areas.. that kind of fiscal imprudence only happens in places like Scarborough and North York.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 09:51 AM   #2963
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I agree.
SkyTrain ext to Granville/Arbutus and then BLine. West of Arbutus there is no space for office or high density high rise residential.
SkyTrain west further than Arbutus is a obscene waste of money but advocated by our right-wing mayor who would have a nose bleed if he had to go east of Main.

SkyTrain all the way to UBC? Yes but not now as there as simply to many areas that have to be served first. SkyTrain west of Arbutus will have OK ridership but the ridership won't grow much as the area west of Arbutus has no commmercial or residential density development capabilitites

Also this $2.2 billion figure for construction is an outright lie. This is from the same provincial government and Translink that said RAV would be $1.4 billion but after just 18 months that went to $1.8 and now is 2.2. Also SkyTrain just to Granville could also be mostly done elevated if need be.

Vancouver is a VERY decentralized city. VGH, Delta Port, YVR, UBC, SFU, CityHall, BCFerries, major filming centres, all but one college campus are all outside of the downtown. These spread out employment centres are also growing as are office jobs not only with suburban office parks but even highrise office space in ther burbs suchas Metrotown, Surrey Central.

It is imperative that rapid transit reach all these areas and not blow all the money on one SkyTrain tunnel. Also remember that if good transit is offerred to an area before huge development takes place the more likely the future employees will take transit and workplace density will increase.

SkyTrain to UBC is a great idea but priorities first and there are simply to many that are far more important with the limited resources we have. In 30 years then yes butnot until the whole metro area has excellent transit if Vancouver truly wants Vancouver to be a transit oriented city.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 11:28 AM   #2964
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Do any of you listen?

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Old June 8th, 2008, 09:48 PM   #2965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post

SkyTrain to UBC is a great idea but priorities first and there are simply to many that are far more important with the limited resources we have. In 30 years then yes butnot until the whole metro area has excellent transit if Vancouver truly wants Vancouver to be a transit oriented city.
Well, Skytrain to UBC IS a priority. That Broadway corridor is just too congested. I wonder if you have first hand experience with that route on a daily basis. It's just damn annoying. As an eastsider, if i can get to UBC without the hassle of going through Kitsilano, then I'd be happy.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 11:20 PM   #2966
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Expo line (combined service) trains arrive every 90 seconds or less during peek hours.
Yeah my bad deasine. My main point was the high frequency of the trains, but you are correct.
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Old June 9th, 2008, 01:22 AM   #2967
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Quote:
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Well, Skytrain to UBC IS a priority. That Broadway corridor is just too congested. I wonder if you have first hand experience with that route on a daily basis. It's just damn annoying. As an eastsider, if i can get to UBC without the hassle of going through Kitsilano, then I'd be happy.
No he doesn't, he lives in White Rock.
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Old June 9th, 2008, 04:35 AM   #2968
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Again, its not that UBC isn't need its just that after Granville the ridership isn't warrented to build it now. There are NO areas along Broadway west of Arbutus that have high residential/ commercial options. It's like building if SkyTrain were built but after Vancouver it serves the same population it did when first built because there were no avaliable land to develope all the way to NuWest.
Even if you think the need is there it should still not go forward past Granville. We have limited resources and so we have to make sure we get the most bang for the buck and there are too many routes and areas of the city where the money could be spent. Like I said before Hastings is the most glarring example. Between downtown and the Kootenay Loop it is a FAR busier and FAR more conjested route than Broadway west of Granville will ever be. Due to that it should be given top priority without question.

Also like I said before Vancouver has very scattered employment centres and it is essential to try to serve them all as opposed to spending all the money on just one.
Broadway to UBC has almost no residential growth potential unlike Hastings, King George and getting to UBC can be done by several routes suchas BLine, BLine down 4th, Joyce BLine. There are no options for the 5 regular routes { several of which are very high frequency} down Hastings.

Its priorities first due to money constraints and to make sure that the funds used can be used effectivly for the whole Metro and no just a SkyTrain tunnel to one place.
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Old June 9th, 2008, 08:29 AM   #2969
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SSIGUY2: First, answer the question, when will the M-Line extension be built by. Do you not think Broadway would be building up after that? I think I posted a map a few posts up and according to Metro Vancouver, Broadway corridor will be building up before Hastings. Both the city and Metro Vancouver is focusing on the Broadway corridor BEFORE hastings.

Even if we were to build up to Arbutus, we would only be saving a maximum (and I repeat A MAXIMUM) of $1.4 billion dollars, which wouldn't get you LRT to Kootney Loop.

Adding to the fact that there is a proper procedure you must follow in Vancouver. Rapid transit routes must first start off with a B-Line (or now RapidBus) before you can do anything. A reason why the Hastings Corridor is so busy is that they still don't have this bus status yet. There's also many suburban express routes that use the corridor.
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Old June 9th, 2008, 09:04 AM   #2970
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What's the growth potential on Hastings??? I don't think I see proposals for even mid-rises on Hastings!! Certainly once it becomes EAST Hastings there isn't any growth that I can recall.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 12:25 PM   #2971
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What's the growth potential on Hastings??? I don't think I see proposals for even mid-rises on Hastings!! Certainly once it becomes EAST Hastings there isn't any growth that I can recall.
there are many new and under construction mid-rises along hastings in Vancouver and in Burnaby.

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There's also many suburban express routes that use the corridor.
just the 160

i dont think the 190 or the trainbus count

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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
There are NO areas along Broadway west of Arbutus that have high residential/ commercial options.......

Like I said before Hastings is the most glarring example. Between downtown and the Kootenay Loop it is a FAR busier and FAR more conjested route than Broadway west of Granville will ever be. Due to that it should be given top priority without question......

getting to UBC can be done by several routes suchas BLine, BLine down 4th, Joyce BLine. There are no options for the 5 regular routes { several of which are very high frequency} down Hastings.
1 there are areas of mid and high rise residential in at least 2 spots in kits and near sassamat. broadway its self could densify through the C-2 zoning for arterials. ecodensity like development has already happened and will continue to happen. the area has density and will continue to densify

2 i disagree, and i take the hastings bus regularly. broadway is far more congested at all hours of the day.

3 and hastings has the M-line skytrain which runs parallel and i know for a fact that many 135 riders also frequent the line. tons of busses from M stations serve the neighbourhoods in and around hastings.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 07:37 PM   #2972
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the traffic along hastings is not that bad at all. the burnaby portion would be quite a breeze except there are pedestrian lights at every block. and this "growth potential" is not great. there are only a couple new condos and nothing under construction in the burnaby heights. (however, there is talk of building up just east of willingdon but only just minimally). I believe the only construction east of PNE would be one building right off the Highway.

the only problem i see with traffic is around nanaimo, where a left hand turn signal would be helpful.

the only time traffic gets really bad is when there is an accident on the 2nd Narrows and the traffic is backed up to boundary.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 08:11 AM   #2973
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Yes, conjestion is very bad along but not west of Granville/Arbutus due to only medium density and no large commercial development and more importantly no area to even potentially do it. Also remember that traffic in the Broad/Gran corridors will be substantially less than it is now even without any MLine extention due to some Richmond/YVR people taking RAV and there will be no 98BLine, 351,352,352,360 buses going down Granville. Only the old #9 will remain.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 08:41 PM   #2974
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Look for new security measures from Translink in the future.
Vancouver/CKNW(AM980)

6/11/2008

Coming soon Translink is going to need your name and number to ride transit and Skytrain.

Transport minister Kevin Falcon says a smart card system along with a gating system will begin to be implemented by 2010.

The smart card will work like a debit card - you prepay and load the card and swipe it before you get on the train and swipe it when you get off.

To get a card they will have to have your personal information.

Now Falcon says experience elsewhere in cities like London have resulted in a revenue increase of 20 per-cent and the ability to identify troublemakers and terrorists within hours of a crime.


will this be done with contactless cards?
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Old June 11th, 2008, 09:15 PM   #2975
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will this be done with contactless cards?
probably.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 09:31 PM   #2976
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Hrmmm...

Hong Kong = Octopus
London = Oyster

What will ours be called? Otter? Orca? Hahaha...can't wait.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 09:46 PM   #2977
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Hrmmm...

Hong Kong = Octopus
London = Oyster

What will ours be called? Otter? Orca? Hahaha...can't wait.
lol, years ago Translink reports called the smart card program "ORCA: One Regional Card for All" but since, Seattle has stolen that name for their own system.

I'd go with Otter.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #2978
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what's the status of Seattle's system, are they in the process of implementing it already? i don't remember seeing it last summer when i visited.

can't wait to "dood" my way across the city and hopefully at fastfood locations too for payment.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 02:54 AM   #2979
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Here's a site with information on Seattle's Orca and updates -

http://soctech.cs.washington.edu/wiki/ORCA/ORCA

On keeping with the 'O' and aquatic theme, what about Ocean? Watch them come up with something completely different like Cougar or Grizzly
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Old June 12th, 2008, 03:22 AM   #2980
nova9
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The slogan should be..

"Use the Otter and 'doot' your way through life...eh"

Haha. I'm copyrighting this right now, it's a winner!!
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