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Old July 4th, 2005, 01:18 AM   #301
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Looks similar to Toronto's newer buses. I'm wondering why there would be investment into these types of buses.. granted they will be wheel chair accessible, but they have low rider capacity.
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Old July 4th, 2005, 04:24 AM   #302
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They look awesome!
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Old July 4th, 2005, 04:38 AM   #303
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In vested in them because although more expensive to buy they are cheaper to run {electricity vs gas} and are non-polluting.
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Old July 4th, 2005, 05:00 AM   #304
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I think very few have a difficulty with the RAV line itself but its the cost and technology.
They are building a high density rail line down a low density street. They have also made assurances to the Cambie area residents that the road will NOT be densified. Absurd!
This was NOT the case with the EXPO line so ridership is good as the areas around it have mushroomed in population but that will not be the case in Vancouver.
Vancouver is also growing slower than it was in the late 80s early 90s and the growth was {and still is} centred in the Surrey/Coquitlam areas...not Richmond!
I could see RAV being underground to KingEdward but after that there is no excuse tunnelling under a low density road.
Translink is expecting 80k passengers/day by 2020 but only 30,000 will be new.
IOW, 40,000 passengers for $1.7bil.
I know I always sing the praises of the CTrain but when you get3 times as many people riding it for one third the cost, it makes you want to both puke and kill.
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Old July 4th, 2005, 07:17 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller
As for Vancouver being "ignored" - Vancouver hasn't necessarily wanted rapid transit - it's just necessary to traverse Vancouver to get to Richmond. When Gordon Campbell was mayor of Vancouver, he advocated connecting Regional Town Centres away from Vancouver before serving Vancouver - so as to encourgae growth away from Vancouver.

Vancouver is a bit odd in that it does not want to be a big city - in the big US city sense - it wants to be "livable". That means limiting tall/ massive buildings and preserving neighbourhood centres - but the City is increasingly becoming aware that it is losing its commercial and industrial base to residential growth (which pays less in property taxes) and to the outlying municipalities (which isn't even in the desirable town centres, but office parks).
Yes, that's quite a problem in Vancouver. Same for the North Shore. I've lived there most of my youth (now, my vacation home), and pretty much all I've heard is people complaining about traffic jams. However, at the same time they're pretty much against every transit proposal that would be open up the area to an influx of new residents (with the expection of Lonsdale). What do they want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
I don't feel symphathetic for the city of Vancouver though and nor should anybody else. According to the Translink website, the 10 year plan consist of $4 billion in transit investments in the whole GVRD. Half of that goes directly to the city of Vancouver (RAV Line and Trolley buses). But I would also like to point out that half of the GVRD population does not exactly live and work within the city boundaries of Vancouver and yet those people still have to pay full price for the program, especially if RAV does not exceed ridership expectations. WTF? If Vancouver was a core city, fine. But its not simply because the growth of the population and employment are elsewhere. And given this fact, it is only rightfully so that they invest more in that "elsewhere" or force the city of Vancouver's butt moving into making itself the central core of the region, i.e. start concentrating employment centres in areas that are served or will be served by rapid transit lines.
Well, Vancouver better be the core city in the future... or we'll end up with a bunch of suburbs without a core. (aka LA). That's not the direction to go.

As someone else mentioned before, the best way is to amalgamate Vancouver & Burnaby (& possibly several other GVRD cities) together, strengthen the city's tax base, and weaken the West of Cambie NIMBYs' grip on city hall. Once this power structure changes, council would have the backbone to densify Cambie and effectively solve half of RAV's problems.

Last edited by rt_0891; July 4th, 2005 at 08:52 AM.
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Old July 4th, 2005, 09:37 AM   #306
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The new bus's look dope.

I like Vancouver and Burnaby's trolley bus network, they should extend it into other parts of the GVA like Surrey and Richmond.
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Old July 4th, 2005, 09:39 AM   #307
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The driver's seat area looks a bit old.
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Old July 4th, 2005, 12:39 PM   #308
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It looks like the ones now! I can't see any differences except for the seats. And our tax money goes to this???? Oh gosh!!!!
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Old July 4th, 2005, 09:38 PM   #309
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^ What are you talking about they look nothing like the current ones.

This is an old bus.
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Old July 4th, 2005, 10:29 PM   #310
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I think the GVRD is examining ways to try to better focus office growth in the town centres. There have been recent reports / studies regarding the growth of suburban office parks and the inability to serve those areas with transit - so that issue is taking a higher profile. Hopefully it will change things at the various municipal halls.

BTW, despite the (aircraft) height restrictions in Richmond, there are a number of condo towers being built in the core of Richmond, and in particular, the area around the public market (near the terminus station) has a better urban layout than areas in Metrotown.... albeit still condos rather than office towers.
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Old July 4th, 2005, 11:27 PM   #311
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Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not 100% certain in all the points I make. I apologise in advance.

wally: "Ah but you do not take into account the fact that the city of Vancouver has no intention of densifying the Cambie Corridor the same way Burnaby has densified the Expo Line and Millenium Line routes or how Surrey is trying to revitalize Whalley. I doubt if we would see Central City style developments, both in terms of offices and residential, in Cambie ever that will actually justify the line! And those major employment and commercial centers are puny compared to what's going on in the suburbs of Vancouver."
Comment---maybe there will be a change in policy with pressure from some groups after the RAV line is built. how can you be certain that the policy will never be changed? Or maybe Burnaby will stop densifying in 5 years, who knows?!

---------------------------------------

officedweller: thanks for posting a 1990 article and brochure...(on P 14)
I am surprised that talks about a Van-Richmond Line and a Coquitlam Line has been on paper since 1990.
1 - Vancouver Richmond Line Construction: 1991, completion: 1995.
2 - a thrid seabus for North Vancouver: 1994; I recall reading on the translink website recently that such a vessel will be in service by 2008/2009?
3 - Skytrain extension to Lougheed Mall by 1995; not done until 2001
Conclusion: I am beginning to wonder if all these disruptions to Transit improvements are due to the provincial elections. (NDP-->Liberal) Whatever it is...I just want them ASAP!!

There's too much politics involved in this...it's as if we are getting rewarded (limited) transit improvements (bridges, LRTs, skytrains, buses...) for voting for certain political parties, and not the other way around.

This is how I see this...NDP gets kicked out of government in late 90s...Liberals come in...rail lines cancelled...ICBC's power is increased...forcing people to drive and pay insurance...before the '05 elections...liberal promises for all these RAV, Coq Line, Golden Ears Bridge, Twinning Port Mann, a new Pitt River Bridge, etc etc...let's see if they are just going to be a bunch of talk...(other than RAV and Golden Ears Bridge...I think those will get finished)

We should make the ultimate GVRD Transit Map and make the government impose it or else we shall go onto the streets and march!!
Just a thought.

Again, please excuse and correct any mistakes I may have.
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Old July 5th, 2005, 12:03 AM   #312
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If it doesn't already, shouldn't the provincial government give an annual subsidy to Translink like how it gives a subsidy to BC Ferries every year? BC Ferries gets $100 million. Translink should get like $300 million.
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Old July 5th, 2005, 01:06 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arashi_1987
There's too much politics involved in this...it's as if we are getting rewarded (limited) transit improvements (bridges, LRTs, skytrains, buses...) for voting for certain political parties, and not the other way around.
I think you've nailed it with that remark. That's the price of democracy in its current form.
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Old July 5th, 2005, 01:24 AM   #314
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now I think I know why there arent any 2-storey buses for downtown...those electric wire things are in the way.
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Old July 5th, 2005, 01:46 AM   #315
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Agreed on the politics.

WRT Wally's comments (though I can't speak for him) - what I think he is referring to is the City of Vancouver's policy to maintain neighbourhoods and NOT rezone (upzone) an area SOLELY because a rapid transit station is located there. To date, the COV has only rezoned industrial lands to spur redevelopment at Skytrain stations - it has not increased the density of existing residential areas - it's sort of preservationist nimbyism.

The most blatant example is Broadway & Commcerial Skytrain Station - this is a huge transit hub, yet there isn't an increase in density - because the COV does not want to disrupt the Commercial Drive neighbourhood. In my view there should be a highrise district focussed on the station. This can be contained so as not to disrupt the Commercial Drive strip further north. Even the "Transit Showcase" project currently being undertaken by the COV and Translink talks of "transit villages" and only beautifies the area - while acknowledging that rezoning would require a change in policy by the City.

If you travel along the Skytrain lines (other than downtown):

Main St. - industrial -> residential
Broadway-Commercial - status quo
Nanaimo - status quo
29th Ave. - status quo
Joyce - light industrial -> residential

Rupert - light industrial -> high tech / light industrial
Renfrew - light industrial -> high tech / light industrial

In comparison, the only Burnaby station that has not seen significant highrise growth is Royal Oak (condo towers are planned for Holdom, and Production Way falls into the high tech office park category).
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Old July 5th, 2005, 01:46 AM   #316
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FROM SSP:

Dominion's VCC Station pics have finally been updated.
Glass has been installed at the platform level and at grade.

http://www.dominionco.com/projectph...tion/photos.cfm



June 26th, 2005 interior station pics now posted at Dominion's website:

http://www.dominionco.com/projectph...tion/photos.cfm



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Old July 5th, 2005, 02:26 AM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Ah but you do not take into account the fact that the city of Vancouver has no intention of densifying the Cambie Corridor the same way Burnaby has densified the Expo Line and Millenium Line routes or how Surrey is trying to revitalize Whalley.

Wrong.

The city hasn't approved an increase in density (upzoning) YET - because otherwise the Nimbys would have wined and not approved the skytrain line.

But think about it. It won't be done for another FIVE YEARS. I guarantee you there will be an increase in density.

Oakridge may become like another Metrotown.
The entire False Creek South area will have a lot more mid-rises, and after a while high-rises, as well, as Downtown will loop around the creek
The area from Broadway to 25th already's got some highrises, and will get more. Why have a 2-story building with a convenience store when you can build a 30 story building there with the convenience store on the bottom. It can happen. It WILL happen.



Finally there's nothing wrong with huge industrial parks in the suburbs (let's say richmond). It is like that in most cities. It's not that there's no room for office space in Vancouver. It's that the cost is too high.
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Old July 5th, 2005, 04:37 AM   #318
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^ Umm, have you not read the comment from officedweller? He seemed to have hit the mark on my thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller
Agreed on the politics.

WRT Wally's comments (though I can't speak for him) - what I think he is referring to is the City of Vancouver's policy to maintain neighbourhoods and NOT rezone (upzone) an area SOLELY because a rapid transit station is located there. To date, the COV has only rezoned industrial lands to spur redevelopment at Skytrain stations - it has not increased the density of existing residential areas - it's sort of preservationist nimbyism.

The most blatant example is Broadway & Commcerial Skytrain Station - this is a huge transit hub, yet there isn't an increase in density - because the COV does not want to disrupt the Commercial Drive neighbourhood. In my view there should be a highrise district focussed on the station. This can be contained so as not to disrupt the Commercial Drive strip further north. Even the "Transit Showcase" project currently being undertaken by the COV and Translink talks of "transit villages" and only beautifies the area - while acknowledging that rezoning would require a change in policy by the City.

If you travel along the Skytrain lines (other than downtown):

Main St. - industrial -> residential
Broadway-Commercial - status quo
Nanaimo - status quo
29th Ave. - status quo
Joyce - light industrial -> residential

Rupert - light industrial -> high tech / light industrial
Renfrew - light industrial -> high tech / light industrial

In comparison, the only Burnaby station that has not seen significant highrise growth is Royal Oak (condo towers are planned for Holdom, and Production Way falls into the high tech office park category).
No amount of wishful thinking in your part will achieve the results that you want, npinguy. Unless you are some prominent Vancouver councillor who has a shot of winning the next municipal elections in disguise and are secretly planning to rally the implementation of those zoning changes yourself....
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Old July 5th, 2005, 04:47 AM   #319
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I did some research of my own and I've found out that the electrical system of our new trolleys are made in Germany by a company called Kiepe-Electrik. The bus is put together by New Flyer in Winnipeg.

Here is a rendering of our new trolleys:


Note that the trolley in the back has a bend like our B-Line buses. I am assuming that those are the 60 footers and are something like this:






From Kiepe's website, translated from German to English through Google.

Quote:
Kiepe traction equipment for the Niederflur trolley buses and Niederflur joint trolley buses for Vancouver, Canada

Vancouver is the largest metropolis in the west of Canada and operates the second largest trolley bus fleet of North America. Also in the future reliable and pollution free trolley buses will form the backbone of the public local passenger traffic in Vancouver.

In order to achieve this goal, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (GVTA) replaces the complete from the 80's coming trolley bus fleet by modern Niederflurbusse with Kiepe traction equipment.

The new Niederflur vehicles are developed and built together with new flyer Industries from Winnipeg. 188 new Niederflur solo trolley buses and 40 Niederflur joint trolley buses of the type rows E40LF and E60LF will already clearly take up the 2010 ago to Vancouver taking place olympic winter plays their service and for highest requirements regarding passenger and operator friendliness will be sufficient.

An entrance ramp in connection with the existing Kneeling function permits a comfortable in and stepping out to also mobility-reduced passengers. The transport of bicycles outside well observably a down hinged bicycle stand is before the bus and thus the driving personnel.

One is used for the first time together with the transporting enterprise into Vancouver developed electrical derailing recognition for the current collectors with these trolley buses. Supported by pneumatically propelled pulleys this system completes the proven Kiepe current collector technology.

For the overhead line-independent travel an emergency travel battery is available.

Both during the drive equipment and with the subsystems electronic data telegrams on CANopen basis serve the wiring and thus the interference source removal and the weight savings for the reduction.

On the vehicle roof is the compact Kiepe drive container.
Uncomplicated to maintain accessible and surely protected against traffic accidents contain this container manufactured from aluminum the most important electronic building groups for the drive as well as for the electrical system power supply.
The modern technology offers in addition electronic ABS and ASR, an automatic back roll barrier and makes excellent possible road performances up to an electronically abgeregelten maximum speed of 65km/h.
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Old July 5th, 2005, 05:08 AM   #320
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For the RAV stations within the City of Vancouver - and south of False Creek - I can definitely see:
- a transit oriented development around the South False Creek Station,
- continued development of the Broadway Corridor around Broadway Station, and
- low-rises and mid-rises around Oakridge Station.

I could also see the various hospital lands along the line (33rd Ave., 57th Ave.)redeveloped with low-rises and mid-rises, and perhaps even the redevelopment of the low-rise rental stock on Cambie between 20th and King Edward replaced with 6-8 storey low/mid-rises about the same scale as "Olive" (likely not without a fight from rental advocates).

Otherwise, development along the RAV line at King Edward and 49th Ave. will likely be limited to duplexes and townhouses. Nothing tall.

Marine Drive will likely remain industrial (esp. since the City is concerned about preserving industrial jobs).

But that doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be ridership on the line. The Expo Line has high ridership despite the low density at several stations located within the COV - it just means that it may not be the highest ridership possible.
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