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Old May 26th, 2009, 02:56 AM   #3501
bluemeansgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongeg View Post
and that would be the "one" station needed between UBC and Alma as I said more than that between UBC and alma is not needed
That's how I read it. Pretty obvious, actually.

I didn't put an X there on the map because I was focusing on the Central Broadway corridor's station spacing.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 03:13 AM   #3502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
If you can make make reasonable station spacing (850m-1000m, or what is required for the community), then I have no problem.
I guess after nname's post, you have no problem.

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Incorrect. I am a frequent daily user of the the subway here, and the 600m station spacing is only for the downtown stations south of Bloor, and that is only a few stations anyways.
Quote:
The congestion North of Eglinton is still pretty severe, and slow going. The recent funding announcement for the Sheppard East LRT line pretty much confirms the colossal waste of money that is the Sheppard Line.
Public transit almost never reduces congestion for cars. But, it does reduce it for people who use it.
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How can you attract riders to the corridor, if all they see is tunnel walls, and the gap between stations is huge?
I agree that it does little to improve the streetscape. However, Vancouver's pretty good about adding bus bulges and taking lanes away from cars (see the removal of car lanes on the Burrard bridge). Though this is speculation, I could see them taking one lane away and using it for a bike lane. But that is speculation.
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CAPABLE of 90 seconds. From what I have read, the skytrain was used to it's full potential during the expo86. Translink's site shows headways of 2 minutes on the COMBINED portion. Not the single line portions of the system.
Pity you haven't been here. You'd be able to see that what you've read doesn't corroborate with what you actually experience.
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Let's be real. Do you really think that the Skytrain will run at 90 seconds along Broadway? It's not likely, especially if that headway is not utilized on the single line portions. Not to mention, that Translink may not even buy enough vehicles to run 90 seconds along the extension.
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I have read that the line will most likely be tunneled, and not cut and cover.
Depends. If it was down Broadway, then yes, you're probably right, due to experiences on Cambie. No decision has been made. If it's down 10th, which is probable, there would a lot more opportunity for cut n' cover. But we shall see.
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20 minutes or greater during rush hour. Which is possible, if an tunneled transit line is built. The frequencies may be excellent now, but that change.
You'll be happy to know that it will be MUCH shorter than that.
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The problem is that you, and a few others would rather sacrifice far greater number of riders to placate long distance travellers, whose trip will most likely end at UBC, and not anywhere along the corridor.
The Broadway corridor IS a major destination. UBC also is. The station spacing will serve these two areas very well as it will be under 1000m along the most central parts.
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Focusing solely on speed will not get drivers out of their cars. Drivers expect ease of use, accessibility, and ammenities. If you leave those out, and assume it is only speed that matters, you run the risk of building a gold plated system, that will not attract drivers.
Frequency is a major factor as well. Combine frequency, speed, ease of use, accessibility... and you have SkyTrain.
Frequent (~2 min)
Fast
Easy to use (if under 10th... see nname's illustration)
Accessible (A ramp to station with minimal stairs)

Where it fails is in the ability to change the streetscape, obviously.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 04:27 AM   #3503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongeg View Post
and that would be the "one" station needed between UBC and Alma as I said more than that between UBC and alma is not needed
No. I personally think there should be a station at Allison too, like there is one for the B-Line. There are a few developments around that station site anyway.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:59 AM   #3504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
You'll be happy to know that it will be MUCH shorter than that.
Looked through the early version of Sept. bus schedule for the frequency of bus service along Cambie and No. 3 Road after Canada Line:

From Downtown to Marine Drive: #15
AM Peak: 6 bus/hr = 10 min headway
Mid-Day: 5 bus/hr = 12 min headway
PM Peak: 6 bus/hr = 10 min headway
Evening: 4 bus/hr = 15 min headway

From Bridgeport to Cambie: #403
AM Peak: 4 bus/hr = 15 min headway
Mid-Day: 4 bus/hr = 15 min headway
PM Peak: 5 bus/hr = 12 min headway
Evening: 4 bus/hr = 15 min headway

From Cambie to Brighouse: #403, #410
AM Peak: 4+6 bus/hr = 6 min headway avg
Mid-Day: 4+4 bus/hr = 7.5 min headway avg
PM Peak: 5+5 bus/hr = 6 min headway avg
Evening: 4+4 bus/hr = 7.5 min headway avg

Much better than the so-called 20min headway during peak hours.

Note: This schedule have yet to be finalized
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Old May 27th, 2009, 02:00 AM   #3505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
No. I personally think there should be a station at Allison too, like there is one for the B-Line. There are a few developments around that station site anyway.
where is allison?
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Old May 27th, 2009, 08:29 AM   #3506
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^ Ya, I don't know of that street either
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Old May 27th, 2009, 09:32 AM   #3507
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You guys could just go look at Google Maps...

http://local.google.ca/maps?f=q&sour...h&z=18&iwloc=A

I know it's rather close to the bus loop, but since the loop is going underground, I'm hoping the Skytrain station can either go closer into the S.U.B. or closer inwards to the centre of the campus to better serve the University while Allison serves the neighborhood of UBC endowment lands.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind one big mega station right underneath Westbrook with station exits going all over the place.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 09:34 AM   #3508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p604 View Post
A frequent streetcar/LRT in its own ROW is good enough for Broadway, for a hell of a lot less money than a tunnelled Skytrain. I say NO to wasted tax dollars. I don't understand why anyone would argue for spending billions on a project like that just to avoid a connection between systems. People do it all over the world and it works just fine. The Broadway corridor is a local corridor and just because someone from Surrey or elsewhere has a doctors appointment once in a while there, we are going to spend Billions more than a LRT so they don't get inconvenienced? Same argument for UBC, thousands take the 99 bus from Commercial, isn't that a transfer?
Not really a hell of a lot less. Back in 2000, the cost of LRT to UBC was estimated to be $800 million while SkyTrain to Arbutus and rapid bus the rest of the way was estimated to be $710 million. As about $45 million of that would have been the rapid bus, the SkyTrain portion would have been $670 million. So SkyTrain all the way would have been $1.34 billion or so. That has doubled to $2.8 billion so the LRT would have doubled to $1.6 billion.

http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transpor...e/previous.htm

Regarding the transfers, it is not just a few people, by 2020, it will be around 100,000 per day.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 04:18 PM   #3509
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PHOTO UPDATE BY TAFYRN...MAY 25

Broadway Station



















========================================================

Aberdeen Station






















========================================================

Lansdowne Station:


















===============================================

Vancouver City Centre







































================================================

http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/
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Old May 28th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #3510
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Is it just me? With City Hall station that seems like one crazy place to put an air vent, right outside the entrance to what will be one of the busiest stations on the Line. If you're walking down Cambie to the station you will have to swoop around it to go in. It ruins the whole ease of pedestrian movement going in and out of the station.

Also it looks like an instant hit for vagrants to set up shop.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:13 PM   #3511
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Can't argue with this:

Column: Subway to UBC still a financial pipe dream


By Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun columnistMay 24, 2009



One of the next big megaplans the provincial government is contemplating is tunneling a subway under Vancouverís west side, stretching from near City Hall to the University of British Columbia. Itís a bold, forward-looking idea that will cost $3 billion.

But itís also an idea far too ahead of its time.

The government ó and its public transit agency, TransLink ó needs to be looking in the other direction when it comes to public transit. The next major infusion of public transit money needs to be directed toward the outskirts of Metro Vancouver, where a population boom is underway that will transform the city.

But first, letís get back to that $3-billion tunnel through Vancouverís west side to the University of British Columbia.

Itís hard not to like a pipe dream like this. In theory it will take thousands of cars off the roads, weíd get rid of the crowding on buses and perhaps stimulate higher-density condo building. It will supposedly help reduce our carbon footprint.

Hereís a little-heard reality check, though.

Aside from the occasionally stop-and-go traffic on Broadway between Cambie and Granville streets, there are no real traffic jams out to the university. Vancouverís west side is a slow-growth area when compared to the other areas of Metro Vancouver.

A subway to UBC is also a questionable economic deal.

Letís suppose 100,000 people would use that $3-billion rail line ó a ridership figure far, far in the future. If it was financed at five per cent a year for 30 years, the actual construction cost to the taxpayer would be $5.8 billion.

That means about $58,000 per rider. Put another way, those 100,000 riders would have to ride the rails every day, seven days a week, for $5 apiece, for more than 30 years to pay down the investment. And that wouldnít even begin to pay for the systemís operating costs.

But aside from the humongous bill, itís the population growth statistics that donít support this megaproject.

Metro Vancouverís population was estimated at 2.2 million people in 2006. By 2031, 25 years from now, the population will grow to 3.2 million. Thatís about a 45-per-cent increase.

But you have to ask yourself where that growth will be. Itís certainly not spread out equally. And itís not going to be on Vancouverís expensive west side.

Statistics show the City of Vancouver, which would be the biggest beneficiary of the UBC rail line, will grow from a population of 607,000 to 709,000 by 2031. Thatís a modest 17-per-cent increase.

Contrast that to Abbotsford, Coquitlam, Langley Township and Surrey. According to an analysis from the office of Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts, those four ďhigh-growth-communitiesĒ will grow collectively at a rate of approximately 20,800 people per year, meaning an additional 520,000 by the year 2031.

The current population of those communities in 2006 was about 770,000. It will reach 1.29 million people by 2031. That means a 67-per-cent boost in population.

It means in less than a generation, we will have the equivalent of Canadaís fourth-largest city sitting on the edge of Metro Vancouver. That means more cars, more traffic jams and more greenhouse gas emissions that will erode our standard of living.

Yet thereís little talk amongst our megaplanners of extending a rapid-rail system out to those fast-growing communities.

But ask them these questions: Should the City of Vancouver ó which will grow by 17 per cent in 2031 ó get a $3-billion public-transit rail line? Or should we be thinking of putting that public infrastructure in an area growing four times faster than the City of Vancouver and save us from turning into Los Angeles north?

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© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Col...432/story.html
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Old May 29th, 2009, 08:04 AM   #3512
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there was an open house today at the sea island station at the airport...
i was there :P and i didn't notice any signage

some pics














elevator upper level


view






from the platform


the south side entrance

lower





west/north entrance




still not paved and huge potholes


i took these without looking



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Old May 29th, 2009, 09:24 AM   #3513
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It's kind of funny... because the writer doesn't realize that the suburbs are getting their share of rapid transit, namely Evergreen Line and expansion and extension of the Expo Line.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 12:47 AM   #3514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raccc View Post
Linear induction uses more energy. As well, the Canada Line cars have a suspension which makes the ride smoother. This is not possible or at least not available on SkyTrain cars.
I thought that Linear Induction was in general less expensive because of fewer moving parts, easier maintenance and efficient energy recapture due to the extensive use of regenerative braking. Essentially, they don't use their brakes except for emergency stops and the final stop at the station.

The capital costs of the system are more, as you need a magnetic third rail, but running it is less expensive, as far as I know.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 09:16 AM   #3515
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And people from the burbs will be using the UBC Line.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 10:29 AM   #3516
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Let’s suppose 100,000 people would use that $3-billion rail line — a ridership figure far, far in the future. If it was financed at five per cent a year for 30 years, the actual construction cost to the taxpayer would be $5.8 billion.
It isn't far into the future at all if the writer did his research...in a 2000 study, studies showed that if SkyTrain were extended to Arbutus and the remaining trip to UBC the combined ridership would be 150,000 per day! That's halfway SkyTrain and halfway rapid bus to UBC and that was a decade ago!

Consider that the U-Pass has since been introduced, transit ridership is rapidly climbing, densification, improved bus service in the region, the introduction of both the Canada Line (intersecting with the UBC extension) and Evergreen Line (an extension of the Millennium Line and therefore part of the route to UBC) AND the fact that the line probably wouldn't be complete for another 10 years.....we can easily reach 100,000 in 2020. In fact, we could easily reach 100,000 today considering bus ridership along the Broadway corridor is already at 100,000 per day. 10 years from today, the ridership of the extension would easily reach 200,000 per day.

Again, one can't simply make an opinion by viewing images and maps - you have to visit the area first.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:49 PM   #3517
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we can easily reach 100,000 in 2020.
Even the Evergreen line is projected to have 93,400 riders per day when it opens in 2014...
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Old May 31st, 2009, 01:14 AM   #3518
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^ well, i think that's a little bit too high. A more realistic number in my opinion for an Evergreen Line opening in 2014 would be 60,000-70,000. Consider it's only 11-kms long, with 6-8 stations. The Millennium Line today rakes in more than 75,000 passengers per day.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 07:35 AM   #3519
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That's operation cost, but yes you are correct.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 10:25 AM   #3520
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I have always agreed with this argument. SkyTrain to UBC...............eventually but there are higher priorities. SkyTrain to Arbutus or Alma would be fine but after that it's relativley low density and the traffic on Broadway is free flowing so BLine from Alma to UBC would be fine.

There are more pressing problems like LRT thru Surrey/Langley, an effective Commuter rail & bus system and definatly the Hastings corridor which is a far busier route then Broadway is already. Hastings already has 5 regular routes on it and with 3 more routes literally running paralell to it with 2 blocks. This does not include rush hour express buses. Hastings is also a far more clogged roadway than Broadway west of Granville is.
LRT connecting Metrotown to Canada Line via Joyce is also high priority. Extending SkyTrain all the way to UBC was political by Campbell and arguable one of the worst mayors has had in decades....Sullivan.

SkyTrain all the way past Alma to UBC simply doesn't offer the bang for the buck.
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