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Old September 9th, 2009, 06:54 AM   #3721
Yellow Fever
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Glad to hear that so many people are using the trains. Hopefully, that number will keep getting bigger as time goes on!
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Old September 16th, 2009, 04:26 AM   #3722
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On the SkyTrain at Commercial-Broadway, I noticed TransLink installed the north signs on Platform 3 incorrectly... the signs for Platform 1 & 2 were pointing south rather than pointing north. Le Sigh.
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Old September 16th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #3723
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awesome!!! i'm glad it opened
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Old September 16th, 2009, 09:40 PM   #3724
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"Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is.
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Old September 16th, 2009, 11:46 PM   #3725
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Quote:
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"Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is.
Quene is used in french as well
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Old September 17th, 2009, 03:36 AM   #3726
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"Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is.
Nope, even though we kept our 'ou's and 're's, a lot of our vocabulary has become Americanized--lift became elevator, 'way out' signs became 'exit' signs, etc. There's still one station on the Toronto subway that directs passengers to the 'car park' though. As with most things in our history and culture, English-speaking Canada is dead centre between the US and the UK, and is leaning heavily towards the US.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 08:34 AM   #3727
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Quote:
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"Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is.
I say both "big line-up" or "long queue."
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Old September 18th, 2009, 01:40 AM   #3728
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^ certainly, but on the downside of that is Translink will have to find tens of millions to buy more trains much earlier than originally planned ($6-million per 2-car train). We're at 80,000/day right now and that's WITHOUT bus integration, I think we can easily reach 100,000 within a matter of weeks with south of Fraser buses terminating at Bridgeport, the elimination of the 98 B-Line, people going back to school, and the majority of the office worker population returning to workl.
It is inTransit that would buy the cars. TransLink would likely have to increase the payments to inTransit to cover the capital and operating costs. This should be no big problem though. With the ridership comes extra revenue that could cover all or most of the cost.
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Old September 18th, 2009, 01:44 PM   #3729
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I was in Vancouver for a brief moment this evening and I noticed a large amount of construction between the lanes of the freeway through the cities. I'm sorry if I sound like a moron, but is that a future sky train expansion?
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Old September 18th, 2009, 10:58 PM   #3730
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the trains should be a no-brainer. if the demand presents itself, the extra cost of the trains will pay for themselves in the form of less sprawl, less auto pollution, etc. etc.

but then things just aren't so rational in the real world. note the unwillingness of the politicians and the local nimbys to upzone the areas around vancouver's canada line stations. the areas are nice and upper middle class, but a growing city should find a way to accommodate more people in its core. low density, balloon framed single family houses with no real distinguishing features are just a waste of the canada line's potential.

*sighs* hopefully the limitations of the short stations won't come back to haunt translink.
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Old September 18th, 2009, 11:36 PM   #3731
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the trains should be a no-brainer. if the demand presents itself, the extra cost of the trains will pay for themselves in the form of less sprawl, less auto pollution, etc. etc.

but then things just aren't so rational in the real world. note the unwillingness of the politicians and the local nimbys to upzone the areas around vancouver's canada line stations. the areas are nice and upper middle class, but a growing city should find a way to accommodate more people in its core. low density, balloon framed single family houses with no real distinguishing features are just a waste of the canada line's potential.

*sighs* hopefully the limitations of the short stations won't come back to haunt translink.
Short stations aren't really as big of a limitation as the lengthy single guideway at Richmond.
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Old September 19th, 2009, 01:53 AM   #3732
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^i was thinking of that one too. supposedly richmond is concentrating its future growth in its city center. it's ironic that the single track section of the canada line will actually be rezoned for more efficient land uses.

the short length platforms, the single track along its final few stations, the lack of upzoning are all just symptomatic of a flawed system. the canada line is undoubtedly a step up from the past, but it could have been so much more. the twenty-something year old millennium line has stations that are still surrounded by low density housing, and low value warehouses. apart from some large parcels of brownfield land, very little has been done to utilize the surrounding areas efficiently.

blame the short term financial bottom line of the public private partnership, the regressive and politically powerful nimby faction, the inability of urban planning academics to convey their point across.

Last edited by particlez; September 19th, 2009 at 02:04 AM.
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Old September 19th, 2009, 06:24 AM   #3733
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^i was thinking of that one too. supposedly richmond is concentrating its future growth in its city center. it's ironic that the single track section of the canada line will actually be rezoned for more efficient land uses.

the short length platforms, the single track along its final few stations, the lack of upzoning are all just symptomatic of a flawed system. the canada line is undoubtedly a step up from the past, but it could have been so much more. the twenty-something year old millennium line has stations that are still surrounded by low density housing, and low value warehouses. apart from some large parcels of brownfield land, very little has been done to utilize the surrounding areas efficiently.

blame the short term financial bottom line of the public private partnership, the regressive and politically powerful nimby faction, the inability of urban planning academics to convey their point across.
We should be glad that the entire Richmond portion isn't a single guideway, as Richmond wanted earlier.

The public-private partnership isn't to blame as the private company doesn't come up with the terms of the Canada Line. The Provincial Government and RAVCO drafted the requirements. The P3 might actually be the success of the Canada Line: think about it, overall, customer service (satisfaction) and cleanliness of the Canada Line is already much better than the Expo and Millennium Lines. I know, it's new, and it might not be fair to say that the Canada Line is cleaner than the Expo Line, but I've seen cleaners walk in and out inspecting and cleaning the trains not just at the termini, but throughout the line. Keep in mind, ProTrans BC only makes 100% of its profit if the Canada Line is kept to standards, so it's their best interest to maintain the system that we have today. If this was TransLink, things might not necessarily be so rosy.
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Old September 19th, 2009, 09:25 AM   #3734
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If you're talking about Highway 1, they are widening it as apart of Gateway so they can add HOV for RapidBus over to Surrey.
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Old September 19th, 2009, 07:53 PM   #3735
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^if i remember correctly, the criteria for the p3 was to transport 15000 passengers per hour. most of the other details were left to the 'private' partner.

while the actual rail lines were the most expensive investment by far, the stations themselves were lowballed. the utilitarian designs can be forgiven. unfortunately, the short train platforms are a problem even now. even if more rolling stock was added and frequencies were at their shortest, the line could still not cope with the masses of commuters. i guess others can justify the canada line as a compromise between fiscal responsibility and serving the public. yet because there was a lack of oversight and/or long term planning, the canada line ends up wasting some of its potential.

it's difficult to compare the service and safety of the canada line to the previous two lines. for one, the canada line rolls through uniformly upper middle class areas, and the canada line has an incentive to maximize fare recovery. thus we much more ticket checks.

i've had to work with the city of vancouver's planning department. while many/most of its employees are professional and well-qualified, they too complain of the byzantine political backstabbing and backroom dealing.
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Old September 19th, 2009, 08:01 PM   #3736
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Quote:
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"Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is.
No, many English words have been Canadianized.
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Old September 20th, 2009, 02:12 AM   #3737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
^if i remember correctly, the criteria for the p3 was to transport 15000 passengers per hour. most of the other details were left to the 'private' partner.

while the actual rail lines were the most expensive investment by far, the stations themselves were lowballed. the utilitarian designs can be forgiven. unfortunately, the short train platforms are a problem even now. even if more rolling stock was added and frequencies were at their shortest, the line could still not cope with the masses of commuters. i guess others can justify the canada line as a compromise between fiscal responsibility and serving the public. yet because there was a lack of oversight and/or long term planning, the canada line ends up wasting some of its potential.

it's difficult to compare the service and safety of the canada line to the previous two lines. for one, the canada line rolls through uniformly upper middle class areas, and the canada line has an incentive to maximize fare recovery. thus we much more ticket checks.

i've had to work with the city of vancouver's planning department. while many/most of its employees are professional and well-qualified, they too complain of the byzantine political backstabbing and backroom dealing.
That requirement was by RAVCO. Yes, everything else was by the private company, but it's RAVCO's responsibility to set all the requirements. They could've insisted on 50m+ platforms from the beginning, but they didn't do so.

The shorter platforms aren't really that big of a problem right now; it's more of a problem at Bridgeport Stn, when that one should've been built out to 50 metres from the beginning. ProTrans BC staff is handling platform crowding quite oddly: they let only few passengers on the platform but stop everyone at the ticket concourse to prevent crowding on the platforms, leading to a line. I can understand some sort of crowd control is necessary, but not really to that extent. If we double our train stock right now, which is entirely possible though that's not going to happen for a while, the system will be able to manage very well. The crowding is a really big concern in Richmond, however, which needs a much higher frequency.

With regards to our station designs, while they are normal, I think they are built to last long. Everyone doesn't like the bland colour of the tiles at the stations, but those hide the dirt quite well. We'll have more colour injected into the Canada Line stations when public art will be installed. I think we got the best line for only $2 billion.
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Old September 20th, 2009, 08:16 PM   #3738
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i don't know why you'd defend the p3 system. it's hard not to see both ravco and the contractor both being disingenuous. many of the terms were changed unilaterally and without proper disclosure.

the contractor just wanted to maximize their profits. and ravco was credulous/inept/corrupt enough to allow a compromised system.

that $2 billion didn't get you the best. the contractor got the best outcome for its own financial interests. the government got some momentary flak, but has survived. the various taxpayers and commuters got a system with an artificially low capacity.
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Old September 20th, 2009, 09:42 PM   #3739
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The P3 system set up for RAV was surely a huge mistake. The scope of the P3 was simply too large for a project like this...not saying P3's don't work, but something of a much smaller scale like independent station maintenance P3's (with Oakridge mall for example) may have been more ideal if we were going to go with the P3 route, even though I personally would have much preferred a entirely publicly built and operated line.

That and the horridly lack of foresight and planning by RAVCO with how they wrote the requirements.

This city always builds for today, never for the future.

And don't get me started with the overzealous crowd control methods ProTransBC has...it's not only ridiculously inefficient, it's also sad. Crowd control methods are like an amusement park ride - unlike any other metro in the world.

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Old September 20th, 2009, 09:54 PM   #3740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
The P3 might actually be the success of the Canada Line: think about it, overall, customer service (satisfaction) and cleanliness of the Canada Line is already much better than the Expo and Millennium Lines. I know, it's new, and it might not be fair to say that the Canada Line is cleaner than the Expo Line, but I've seen cleaners walk in and out inspecting and cleaning the trains not just at the termini, but throughout the line. Keep in mind, ProTrans BC only makes 100% of its profit if the Canada Line is kept to standards, so it's their best interest to maintain the system that we have today. If this was TransLink, things might not necessarily be so rosy.
That's a pretty steep price to pay for just having a cleaner system with smiling attendees...I'm definitely impressed with the customer service and cleanliness, but if I had to choose between that and a long-lasting system I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.


The limitations of the Canada Line will haunt us down the road.
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