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Old July 15th, 2005, 02:58 AM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bs_lover_boy
Single Track in Richmond will be hideous!!! Richmond's development is very fast right now (in terms of mid rises). All the buildings along #3 Road and near it are getting taller and taller. The usage/patronage of the line will rise if Richmond Continues to grow at this rate, so I would suggest that a future option to expand Richmond Center Station into a dobule platform is to be built. Also, Richmond is a very good place to live in because it is one of those places where you can get density and not feel tight at all.
I agree about the rapid development in the city. Don't forget to add in the mass development that will be occuring around Olympic speed skating oval and the giant field east of Landsdowne Mall. That field will be home to office and residential towers, retail, First Nations purposes, and a large convention centre.

I really think they should do something about Lansdowne Mall, tear it down and build something spectacular. Both an indoor and outdoor shopping mall, indoor like the West Edmonton Mall and outdoor like the pedestrian friendly Whistler Village. There's no need for all of that grade level parking, it should be stacked, and you could add in a ton of office and residential towers with it. Something really spectacular should happen at Lansdowne.

Something big should also happen in at around Oakridge Mall. Rezone the whole area for dense office and residential and tear down the whole mall, replace it with a bigger and more urban friendly mall (like Aberdeen) as well as build a lot of office and residential towers at the site.
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:20 AM   #462
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Thanks nname.

It's likely that Translink will approve the double track between Cambie & Bridgeport - so for both branches, only the termini will be single tracked.

WRT the Federal field east of Lansdowne - personally I think a convention centre should be closer to the core - it'll be stranded with those condos between Lansdowne Mall and it. And if they allow a big box centre to the north of it, that'll just make Richmond's core spread out more. Richmond is at a stage where it is densifying its core, and each of those proposals east of Garden City Way seems to counter that.
Take down some of the warehouses near the Olympic Oval site and near the Marriott and Hilton hotels and the Richmond Inn for the convention centre. That would be much better. The Federal site could even be used for warehousing or light industrial - it has great access to both the Richmond connector and to Hwy 99.
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:25 AM   #463
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One question. Is the Lansdowne Station a future station or is it cancelled altogether?
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:39 AM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
One question. Is the Lansdowne Station a future station or is it cancelled altogether?
I don't remember Lansdowne Station even existed... I think there were 6 Richmond station that was orginally planned:
  • Bridgeport
  • Capstan Way (future station)
  • Cambie
  • Alderbridge
  • Westminster (recently got cancelled)
  • Richmond Centre
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:42 AM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname
I don't remember Lansdowne Station even existed... I think there were 6 Richmond station that was orginally planned:
  • Bridgeport
  • Capstan Way (future station)
  • Cambie
  • Alderbridge
  • Westminster (recently got cancelled)
  • Richmond Centre
It was Westminster Station then. So it got cancelled? Wouldn't it make more sense to make it a future station?
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:43 AM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
It was Westminster Station then. So it got cancelled? Wouldn't it make more sense to make it a future station?
The Richmond Centre station is going to be located near Saba Road... I think it is only a few hundreds meters south of Westminster Hwy?
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:46 AM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname
The Richmond Centre station is going to be located near Saba Road... I think it is only a few hundreds meters south of Westminster Hwy?
So they're combining the two stations together.
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:47 AM   #468
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The Lansdowne Mall station has always been located at Alderbridge.
There was a Westminster Highway station plus a Richmond Centre Station.
The elimination of the Westminster Highway station involved moving the Richmond Centre station to the north (shortening the guideway too) - so westminster Station would have been too close-by - plus that's a tight intersection and I'll bet all involved didn't want a bulky station at what is the main crossroads for Richmond.
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:51 AM   #469
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...I don't think there should be a Lansdowne Station. If they do build a station in the future, in that vicinity, another name would be better. Pfft - lansdowne.
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Old July 15th, 2005, 03:59 AM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
OH PLEASE!!!! You are obvioulsy making up your stats. Show me the link that only 1% of the population are whiners!
That sounds like a joke but I actually think you're serious. NO SHIT i'm making those stats up. i'm making up a hyperbole to illustrate a point. The point being that whether it's 1% or 2% or 5% or 10% or even 25% that are whiners, it is a TINY minority. A tiny vocal minority that makes a lot of noise, but isn't an accurate representation of the population. Trust me. I live here. I interact with Vancouverites. YOU DON'T.

Quote:
And about your trying to name one outside RAV and the ME Line. Well, there is only the Expo Line that is left since the big metropolis of Greater Vancouver only has three rapid lines now and forever.
Well, actually, I was talking about ANY urban planning blunders. Because that was my point - that we have faith in the city of Vancouver. Rapid transit is just a small part of what I was talking about. But alright if you insist on only focusing on rapid transit, then let's. The RAV line hasn't been built yet, so you don't know how that will affect busineses, and what kind of ridership it'll get. The Expo line is obviously a success. SO, you're basing your whole criticism of urban planning mistakes based on the ME line. Which most people in Vancouver DO NOT consider a blunder or a mistake - even at it's cost. It is stimulating growth along it's root, connects to major Vancouver areas (such as Lougheed Mall, and vancouver film studios), etc

Quote:
You are so typical. "Love Vancouver, love Vancouver, its perfect! There is nothing wrong with my city that I happen to live in because its perfect"
I've lived in Vancouver for 10 years, and I never want to live. TO ME it IS almost perfect. Sorry.

Quote:
All legitimate complaints are automatically false
MAKE a legitimate complaint and I'll respond to it.

Quote:
we have the most comprehensive transit network that beats New York, London or Hong Kong.
I never said that. Never said it was the most comprehensive. And certainly not around the world. The transit system, however, IS one of the best in North America and has been named THE best at least twice during the last decade.

Quote:
Our Skytrain is the best in the planet.
Never said that either. But it's damn nice for what it does, tho, and it's certainly scenic.

Quote:
BLAH BLAH BLAH! IN YOUR DREAMS KID!!! The Greater Vancouver Transit is a joke!
Most impartial observers would disagree.

Quote:
The city of Vancouver demands this and that and yet expects its suburbs to pay for their "sexy" subway and streetcar with little return for their buck. Given that, say Port Coquitlam, also pays for that fancy trolley bus, not just the city and residents of Vancouver who can use them, well, where are Port Coquitlam's fancy trolley buses?
People in PQ don't need fancy trolley buses. You know what they need? A rapid transit line so that they can GET TO VANCOUVER. And that's what they're going to get. Meanwhile people at Broadway&Granville don't need a rapid transit line to get across the bridge to downtown. They need new trolley buses. And that's what they're going to get. Appropriation.

Quote:
And as far as business parks, what about Glenlyon in Burnaby? Commerce Parkway in Richmond? The Xantrex complex in Burnaby Mountain? That area in Langley with the Costco and office buildings? Where are their buses and how often do they come?
COMMERCE PARKWAY? YOU ******* MORON!! I WORKED at Commerce Parkway for 13 months (At MDA). I lived in Kitsilano. I took the 98B-line to Aberdeen, then the 410 to a bus stop right in front of my company building. It took me about an hour.

I don't know about the other industrial parks, but given what you know about Commerce Parkway, it seems like you don't know what you're talking about any of them. I'm gonna assume that they all have bus service. And you are just full of shit.



Now onto the other guy that's full of shit...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
I must say I have A LOT of problems with Translink but the trolley fleet isn't one of them.
For Vancouver , yes the M-Line and soon to be RAV are wastes of money in epic proportions. Just compare the ridership levels to CTrain that cost less than one third the price and serves inner city dwellers far better.
Reference #353 to the CTrain. Stop it, everybody. Yes, the CTrain works well for cheap - FOR CALGARY. Remember - Calgary - just the city proper is actually larger than Vancouver. I say again, population wise, the city of Calgary is greater than the city of Vancouver. SO, the metro area of Vancouver is a lot more important than Calgary's. The areas that you guys call suburbs - Burnaby, New West, etc, and things that people in Vancouver do NOT consider suburbs. All of them need to be conncted to Vancouver. Meanwhile WITHIN the city, the trolley buses do a fine enough job in most areas.

Point is, the skytrain, (all 3 lines including the unbuilt) serve Vancouver. The CTrain serves Calgary. And both of them serve their respective city well. The vancouver inner city dwellers don't need even a CTrain like line. Nobody needs a rapid transit line to get from english bay to granville&robson.

Lastly, Calgarians may be satisfied with a 1993 Jetta, but Vancouverites want a 2004 Beamer. And that's what is the difference between "getting the job done at 1/3 the price" and "getting the job done sleekly, modernly, and perfectly for a hefty price that people are WILLING TO PAY".

Quote:
Why didn't they create a transit ROW to Richmond/Airport years ago. It would have been very easy considering the low density.
Ummm..........if there's low density, why build a line there? You're confusing yourself here.

Quote:
Allowing low density in all areas south of Broadway has been a nightmare.
What's wrong with low density? You need it someplaces. Nothign wrong with that. And what exactly about it makes it a nightmare? I don't think you'll find many people that agree with you. Would it be nice if a line from Vancouver to Richmond went through COMPLETELY high-dense neighborhoods? yeah. But those will come.

So where exactly is the nightmare?

Quote:
Vancouver has no proper roads but was also the last major city in Canada to get rapid transit.
NO proper roads? What are you smoking? What is a proper road in your mind?

You make it sound as if the skytrain was opened in 1999. Rapid transit wasn't necessary before the skytrain opened. Vancouver was yet to boom at that point

Quote:
Why does Translink try to serve suburbanites befor urbanites where the ridership is.
Quote:
Why are they not demanding a fleet of commuter buses as a condition of the inevitable PortMann widening?
THANK YOU for contradiciting yourself within one post.

As I mentioned, the 'suburbs' need to be connected to vancouver, and that's what skytrain is for. But nobody I know considers Burnaby a suburb of Vancouver, and skytran works fine within Vancouver as well.


NOW....you say Translink tries to surve subarbanites before urbanites, then you ask why they're not demanding a fleet of comuter buses for the port mann widening. Why not? Well...they ARE getting a fleet of new trolley buses. And you know where those are going? TO THE URBANITES. Meanwhile the trolleys are NOT necessary for the transit routes across port mann, so they're not going there.

You would know that, and you would even not contradict yourself if you weren't...full...of...shit.

Translink serves both the urbanites and the suburbanites with what they each need respectively. There's no favourtiism.

Quote:
Why did they not set aside Arbutus Corridor while it was there like anyother city would do.
They're putting a streetcar route down it, so that's a moot point. Eventualy the ME line will be extended to Arbutus&Broadway, and there will be a transit hub there.

Quote:
Why did they not secure the railway to Langley for Commuter Rail. Why have they not even secured the ROW right beside it before they allowed all the development in Cloverdale and now it is too late?
AGAIN, contradicting yourself. Didn't you just say that Translink favours suburbanites instead of urbanites. By that logic shouldn't they have created a commuter rail to Langley first? Something smells of doo-doo. I think it's you, and you're full of it.

There's no commuter rail to Langley because nobody cares about Langley.


I'll grant you the point about Cloverdale. ONE SMALL OVERSIGHT. The count is at ONE.

Quote:
Why do they not have HOV on the Lion's Gate like highway 99?
It's 3 lanes wide, yo. What would you have them do?

Quote:
Why did they go with those huge and expensive WCE double-decker trains when the thing only carries 9,000/day? Why not use an O-Train type vehicle which is far less costly to both run and buy and yet are more flexible so they could run thru the day?
It allows for future growth and increase in ridership levels in those regions.

Quote:
Vancouver is a product of poor urban planning which is making rapid transit both expensive and underutilised.
Vancouver residents will disagree with you. Tho it may be underutilized, we still consider it worth the cost for what we get.

Quote:
Vancouver's downtown is populace and dense and with a few exceptions like MetroTown and Newest Vancouver is a sprawling mess.
Sprawling? Perhaps. But what city in North America (except new york) DOESN'T sprawl? And a sprawling mess? What makes it a mess? You need to explain those things. For instance. I repeatedly said in this post that you were full of shit. And I showed evidence for why I think this is true. If you make a claim that vancouver is a sprawling mss, or that vancouver has poor urban planning you need to provide evidence for that as well. As my analysis shows you've made tops 1 or 2 good points. And that's not enough.
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Old July 15th, 2005, 04:12 AM   #471
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Woohoo! Swing that axe npinguy!
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Old July 16th, 2005, 10:07 PM   #472
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Good work npinguy I agree on most of ur points.

Quote:
As I mentioned, the 'suburbs' need to be connected to vancouver, and that's what skytrain is for. But nobody I know considers Burnaby a suburb of Vancouver, and skytran works fine within Vancouver as well.
Burnaby, Surrey and Richmond arnt really suburbs of Vancouver because if you were to take away any off these so called suburbs the economy of the GVA would colapse. The other cities that make up Greater Vancouver aren't just spralling residential neighbourhoods it isn't uncommon for people to live downtown and work in Richmond or even Surrey.

Quote:
Vancouver residents will disagree with you. Tho it may be underutilized, we still consider it worth the cost for what we get.
Vancouver's transit system is not underutilized, B-line is over capacity (thats why we need RAV) and skytrain is at capacity during peak hours on both weekdays and weekends.
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Old July 16th, 2005, 10:34 PM   #473
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IMO I think that current transit system is perfect for Vancouver. The Lower Mainland is unique because all the commuters are coming from two general directions South and East. Sure it may be expensive then most rapid transit of its type. When I visted Vancouver I was very impressed with the skytrain, good views, good frequency between trains and clean.
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Old July 17th, 2005, 02:39 AM   #474
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Finally, SSC is back!

Quote:
That sounds like a joke but I actually think you're serious. NO SHIT i'm making those stats up. i'm making up a hyperbole to illustrate a point. The point being that whether it's 1% or 2% or 5% or 10% or even 25% that are whiners, it is a TINY minority. A tiny vocal minority that makes a lot of noise, but isn't an accurate representation of the population. Trust me. I live here. I interact with Vancouverites. YOU DON'T.
That's the whole reasoning for your bias. Just because you live there doesn't mean its a great city. And yes, you made up the hyperbole because that is what all your arguments are....hyperboles! It is NOT a tiny majority. How would you know what? Do you have hard statistical evidence to point out that it is a tiny minority?


Quote:
Well, actually, I was talking about ANY urban planning blunders. Because that was my point - that we have faith in the city of Vancouver. Rapid transit is just a small part of what I was talking about. But alright if you insist on only focusing on rapid transit, then let's.
Oh sure...now its about "ANY urban planning blunders". Let me get this straight. Your car traffic is a joke, your transit is a joke, your employment growth patterns is a joke. Hardly a focus on rapid transit, eh?

Quote:
The RAV line hasn't been built yet, so you don't know how that will affect busineses, and what kind of ridership it'll get. The Expo line is obviously a success. SO, you're basing your whole criticism of urban planning mistakes based on the ME line. Which most people in Vancouver DO NOT consider a blunder or a mistake - even at it's cost. It is stimulating growth along it's root, connects to major Vancouver areas (such as Lougheed Mall, and vancouver film studios), etc
Says who? The Translink reports say it all that the Millenium Line is loosing money. Its not complete, it has not produced its desired ridership projection and for its investment, growth on the line is slow. The objective of the GVRD LRSP is to have both residential AND employment centres in the town centres. Except for Metrotown and possibly Surrey Central, does all town centres have large employment centres?

Quote:
I've lived in Vancouver for 10 years, and I never want to live. TO ME it IS almost perfect. Sorry.
Yeah, living in Vancouver makes you wanna die, eh?

Quote:
MAKE a legitimate complaint and I'll respond to it.
Tunneling at RAV is a result of creme de la creme lobbying for they do not want to have a train high in the sky. Respond!

Quote:
I never said that. Never said it was the most comprehensive. And certainly not around the world. The transit system, however, IS one of the best in North America and has been named THE best at least twice during the last decade.
Source? Or is that another hyperbole!


Quote:
Never said that either. But it's damn nice for what it does, tho, and it's certainly scenic.
Tell that to the creme de la creme who don't want it.

Quote:
Most impartial observers would disagree.
Name those impartial observers, please. Or is this another made up hyperbole?

Quote:
People in PQ don't need fancy trolley buses. You know what they need? A rapid transit line so that they can GET TO VANCOUVER. And that's what they're going to get. Meanwhile people at Broadway&Granville don't need a rapid transit line to get across the bridge to downtown. They need new trolley buses. And that's what they're going to get. Appropriation.
Who are you to say that people in one side of the Lower Mainland need or don't need a certain type of service? People in Vancouver don't need fancy trolley buses either. So why spend hundreds of millions on it when diesels, which are found everywhere else, are what is being bought for the rest of the GVRD?

Quote:
COMMERCE PARKWAY? YOU ******* MORON!! I WORKED at Commerce Parkway for 13 months (At MDA). I lived in Kitsilano. I took the 98B-line to Aberdeen, then the 410 to a bus stop right in front of my company building. It took me about an hour.
13 months? I worked there for five years and the bus system is a joke! And an hour bus ride is unacceptable.

Quote:
"I don't know about the other industrial parks, but given what you know about Commerce Parkway, it seems like you don't know what you're talking about any of them. I'm gonna assume that they all have bus service. And you are just full of shit."
Shows what little you truly know about the Vancouver area. Why don't you go work at Inex Pharmaceuticals and try to take a bus there...

I'll let ssiguy2 respond but overall, npinguy, only 12 year rich kids like mr X who want a toy train instead of a functional and comprehensive region wide rapid transit system would find your post valid since it is you that is full of shit. Want to have a battle, bring it on!

I'll respond to this one though...

Quote:
Lastly, Calgarians may be satisfied with a 1993 Jetta, but Vancouverites want a 2004 Beamer. And that's what is the difference between "getting the job done at 1/3 the price" and "getting the job done sleekly, modernly, and perfectly for a hefty price that people are WILLING TO PAY".
How do you know people are willing to pay? Did you have a referendum in which the people decided to approve the funding? Or did you base that assumption on a survey in a mall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdZed
IMO I think that current transit system is perfect for Vancouver. The Lower Mainland is unique because all the commuters are coming from two general directions South and East. Sure it may be expensive then most rapid transit of its type. When I visted Vancouver I was very impressed with the skytrain, good views, good frequency between trains and clean.
Try taking Skytrain from Maple Ridge then...
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Old July 17th, 2005, 05:11 AM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Try taking Skytrain from Maple Ridge then...
I think we all know how embarrassing the ridership numbers would be if a skytrain was built to Maple Ridge. WCE better prepare itself for some serious competition.
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Old July 17th, 2005, 08:15 AM   #476
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Quote:
I'll let ssiguy2 respond but overall, npinguy, only 12 year rich kids like mr X who want a toy train instead of a functional and comprehensive region wide rapid transit system would find your post valid since it is you that is full of shit. Want to have a battle, bring it on!
here we go again, your "creme de la creme" excuse [email protected] about me.

RAV is either now or never. The project was killed the first time because of eastern politics in the region, it was nearly killed again for the exact same reason nearly a year ago.

Bring it on!
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Old July 17th, 2005, 08:20 AM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
How do you know people are willing to pay? Did you have a referendum in which the people decided to approve the funding? Or did you base that assumption on a survey in a mall?
Looks like someone's running out of straws to grasp at.

I suggest you have a look at some of the Consultation & Public Survey Reports to see just how high the level of support for the Canada Line is. We're talking 79% of all Lower Mainlanders (mentioning a $1.5-1.7 billion shared project cost), and 81-90% of those in Vancouver & Richmond, depending on the question's phrasing. That's with Synovate-conducted, 500-person sample, random telephone surveys, plus further oversamples, for a 4.4% margin of error at a 95% confidence level.

Also, see how few people (<25%) in all the Lower Mainland support at-grade for this route, while levels of elevated & underground support are very close. And by far the most important aspect of using the Canada Line in the public's eye is speed - it has to be no more than 25 minutes from the Airport to Downtown and 30 minutes from Richmond Centre to Downtown. According to the other report I referred to before, it's unlikely LRT could manage these.

This line in its chosen form is very strongly supported throughout the entire region. It would be a tremendous waste of money to hold a GVRD-wide referendum!
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Old July 17th, 2005, 08:25 AM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonie
Looks like someone's running out of straws to grasp at.

I suggest you have a look at some of the Consultation & Public Survey Reports to see just how high the level of support for the Canada Line is. We're talking 79% of all Lower Mainlanders (mentioning a $1.5-1.7 billion shared project cost), and 81-90% of those in Vancouver & Richmond, depending on the question's phrasing. That's with Synovate-conducted, 500-person sample, random telephone surveys, plus further oversamples, for a 4.4% margin of error at a 95% confidence level.

Also, see how few people (<25%) in all the Lower Mainland support at-grade for this route, while levels of elevated & underground support are very close. And by far the most important aspect of using the Canada Line in the public's eye is speed - it has to be no more than 25 minutes from the Airport to Downtown and 30 minutes from Richmond Centre to Downtown. According to the other report I referred to before, it's unlikely LRT could manage these.

This line in its chosen form is very strongly supported throughout the entire region. It would be a tremendous waste of money to hold a GVRD-wide referendum!
Bullseye! I agree!



How do you know people are willing to pay? Did you have a referendum in which the people decided to approve the funding? Or did you base that assumption on a survey in a mall?

Hmmmmm....Wally, are you sure you're not Queetz? That's exactly what he said as well.
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Old July 17th, 2005, 08:38 AM   #479
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"My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is NOT a porn star." - Abe Simpson

"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old July 17th, 2005, 08:52 PM   #480
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Addisonwesleys request for SkyTrain pictures.



SkyTrains reverse outside. The tunnel portal is just an opening in the wall enclosing the SkyTrain station. MARK II trains.







Mark Is and IIs side by side.


















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"My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is NOT a porn star." - Abe Simpson

"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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