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Old July 18th, 2005, 10:32 AM   #501
npinguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
That's the whole reasoning for your bias. Just because you live there doesn't mean its a great city. And yes, you made up the hyperbole because that is what all your arguments are....hyperboles! It is NOT a tiny majority. How would you know what? Do you have hard statistical evidence to point out that it is a tiny minority?
Once again. i live in the city. I speak to Vancouverites. i read the local papers. I listen to the complaints, to the editorial pages, and the opinions of people.

YOU DON'T. Where do you get off trying to say how Vancouverites feel and think? You have absolutely no ******* clue any more than you know how starving Ethiopians feel.


Quote:
Oh sure...now its about "ANY urban planning blunders". Let me get this straight. Your car traffic is a joke,
How is it a joke? Are there hotspots with traffic conjestion? Of course there are. Granville street, the port mann bridge, etc.

But name ANY city in north america without areas like that. How is our traffic a joke? tell me more. This is what I'm talking about - you need to back statements like this UP.

Quote:
your transit is a joke,
just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it so. But if you want to repeat fantasies over and over and hope they come true I recommend instead saying to yourself "I am not a dumbass. I am not a dumbass" about 300 times in a row.

I've shot down your 'reasons' why Vancouver's transit is a joke.

Quote:
your employment growth patterns is a joke.
This one is actually SEMI-legitimate but no really. Vancouver has a widespread high-tech sector that's always growing. I just graduated from UBC this past may and have not had difficulty finding a job because there are so many companies hiring.

Quote:
Says who? The Translink reports say it all that the Millenium Line is loosing money. Its not complete, it has not produced its desired ridership projection and for its investment, growth on the line is slow. The objective of the GVRD LRSP is to have both residential AND employment centres in the town centres. Except for Metrotown and possibly Surrey Central, does all town centres have large employment centres?
New West does. How many other towns do you know that the skytrain goes through? Let's see....Vancouver (Downtown), Burnaby (Metrotown), New Westminster (same), Surrey (surrey central). Ummm that's it isn't it?

Quote:
Yeah, living in Vancouver makes you wanna die, eh?
Funny guy. Typo. I meant to say I've lived here for 10 years and don't want to LEAVE.

Quote:
Tunneling at RAV is a result of creme de la creme lobbying for they do not want to have a train high in the sky. Respond!
GLADLY!!!

I ask for a legitimate complaint and I get one. If only you brought it up earlier instead of all that other bullshit.

This is one I actually happen to agree with you on. Yes, the skytrain should've gone down the center of Cambie, and stupid *******s blocked it. But Nimbys are everywhere and make life hell for any right-minded city planners in EVERY north american city. Instead of cancelling the line, the city has forked up the extra cost and is tunneling. Except that's upsetting other people. You just can't please everybody.

People in Vancouver don't like this. We don't like the extra cost. But we know that the line is NECESSARY and so we accept the extra cost while cursing the nimbys under our breath.

Thank you for a legitimate complaint. I hope to hear more from you but judging how long it took for you to get just one, i don't forsee any more. You can surprise me, though.


Quote:
Source? Or is that another hyperbole!
The American Public Transit Association hands out an award for "The Best Public Transit System in North America. I can't find a link for it online, but I know BC Transit (before it became Translink which is the same thing really, and it's only improved since then) has won it several times. I saw stickers in buses. You could be cynical and say they're lying of course, but I doubt it.

Quote:
Tell that to the creme de la creme who don't want it.
That creme de la creme is a tiny minority. Remember how we talked about that earlier? And you know it, because that's almost part of the definition of "creme de la creme" is that it's a small upper percentage of people.

Quote:
Name those impartial observers, please. Or is this another made up hyperbole?
The American Public Transit Association.

Quote:
Who are you to say that people in one side of the Lower Mainland need or don't need a certain type of service? People in Vancouver don't need fancy trolley buses either. So why spend hundreds of millions on it when diesels, which are found everywhere else, are what is being bought for the rest of the GVRD?
Because Trolley buses polute less, cost less to run (once you take into account fuel costs) and in closer more urban quarters that matters.

Who am I to say what they need? Well for one I'm a person that lives in this town and know people in PQ (for instance). Can you claim either of those?

My point being is nobody's being ignored. And you (and ssiguy) really love to contradict yourselves and try to have things both ways.

One the one hand you bitch and moan how the RAV line is so CLEARLY designed for the suburbs, and not for Vancouverites and therefore it sucks and so does the rest of skytrain cuz it just serves the suburbs. On the other hand you bitch and moan that Vancouver - the urban area is getting new trolley buses but the suburbs aren't. Pick one and stick with it. Either it's more important to serve the urban area, or the suburbs. Can't have it both ways.

Wait what am I saying. yes you can. You know what it's called? It's called not having bias, which is the position translink finds itself in. And it serves both equally.


Quote:
13 months? I worked there for five years and the bus system is a joke!
Well I JUST explained to you how the bus system is NOT a joke seeing as the place had just FINE bus access and I never had a complaint about regularity, access, reliabitlity, etc.

But you know what, you're right, I'm the *******. You're right.
And the sun orbits around the earth too.

Quote:
And an hour bus ride is unacceptable.
It's a distance of about 10-15 kilometers if you follow the major roads (granville, then cambie). How long would you expect a busride to take 10-15 kilometers through an urban area with no highways?


Quote:
Shows what little you truly know about the Vancouver area. Why don't you go work at Inex Pharmaceuticals and try to take a bus there...
Inex Pharmaceuticals.
200-8900 Glenlyon Parkway
Burnaby, British Columbia
Canada V5J 5J8

Map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=8900+G...0.321590&hl=en

May I recommend bus #116? You can catch it at the Metrotown skytrain station. Skytrain is easily gotten to from almost anywhere.
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/map..._Route_Map.pdf


Wally give this up, it's getting sad how utterly and completely full of shit you are.

Quote:
Want to have a battle, bring it on!
I relish a battle. You don't know what you're getting yourself into, man.

Quote:
How do you know people are willing to pay? Did you have a referendum in which the people decided to approve the funding? Or did you base that assumption on a survey in a mall?
not a wholely worthless point, actually. I'm surprised yet again Wally. You're right, there was no referendum. What I'm basing it on is general public opinion from what I see from friends, coworkers, friends of friends, friends of coworkers, editorials in newspapers, etc.

MOST Vancouverites feel that
a) the systems ARE expensive
b) the systems ARE necessary
c) the cost is justified for that.


NOW.........you can call us STUPID for that, and you would be completely within your right. That would be your opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. What you CAN'T say is that Vancouverites oppose the ME and RAV lines or think they're TOO expensive (big difference between 'expensive' and 'too expensive'). Because WE don't.


Quote:
Try taking Skytrain from Maple Ridge then...
That one didn't make sense at all. If you live in maple ridge, you can commute via the WCE. Ain't nothin wrong with that.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 10:34 AM   #502
npinguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
As stated earlier, someone wants a new BMW instead of a '93 Jetta but remember they seat the same number of people but with the difference you could buy 5 more of those Jettas.
Calgary decided to have Jettas and it has turned into a BMW system at Chevy prices.
so glad you said that.


You can't turn a Jetta into a BMW. A Jetta is a Jetta.


and what would you rather have? 5 Jettas or 1 BMW (if 1 bmw cost the same as 5 jettas?) Obviously the jetta costs more than that but if it did cost this little, i don't know about you but i'd pick the one nice car over 5 (why would i need 5) shitty ones



oh and :


Isn't a Jetta compared to Skytrain's BMW.

This is an oversized trolleybus on tracks. Comprared to Skytrain's BMW, this is a VW beatle that's had a head-on-collision with a freight train.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 11:04 AM   #503
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npinguy: Skytrain is a BMW? What, did it get its engine ripped out or something? Because as far as I can see, performance-wise our C-Train has been kicking Skytrain's ass. The Official Spring 2005 statistics here show ridership numbers of 312 300 per day. Numbers that Vancouver still dreams to have, and with a far larger population base. I'm not going to argue with you about what Vancouver needs, and get the faster trains if you need to, but Calgary clearly has the better system here. Give credit where it is due.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 11:10 AM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris550
npinguy: Skytrain is a BMW? What, did it get its engine ripped out or something? Because as far as I can see, performance-wise our C-Train has been kicking Skytrain's ass. The Official Spring 2005 statistics here show ridership numbers of 312 300 per day. Numbers that Vancouver still dreams to have, and with a far larger population base. I'm not going to argue with you about what Vancouver needs, and get the faster trains if you need to, but Calgary clearly has the better system here. Give credit where it is due.
More ridership doesn't make it a BMW, technology is what makes it a BMW. SkyTrain, ALRT (automated, is both elevated and underground, and it's linear propulsion), is a BMW. Maglev is Mercedes.


With your understanding, you can even call this a BMW because of all it's ridership:
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Last edited by mr.x; July 18th, 2005 at 11:17 AM.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 11:16 AM   #505
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^ But when it comes down to it, performance is what really matters. Your Skytrain may look like a BMW, but it sure doesn't perform like a BMW. It's just a big poser, no guts at all. It's like you took that BMW engine and stuck it in my Jetta. (Thanks for that BTW...)

EDIT: I'd like to make a note here. If you can afford the BMW and want the looks, go ahead. I'm totally down with that. That is, as long as it still outperforms my Jetta.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 11:21 AM   #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris550
^ But when it comes down to it, performance is what really matters. Your Skytrain may look like a BMW, but it sure doesn't perform like a BMW. It's just a big poser, no guts at all. It's like you took that BMW engine and stuck it in my Jetta. (Thanks for that BTW...)
These are two different cities with different people. Vancouverites want faster, more reliable, safer and high-tech rapid transit.....we want our SkyTrain and Calgarians can stick with their oversized trolley buses on tracks.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


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Old July 18th, 2005, 12:11 PM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npinguy
and what would you rather have? 5 Jettas or 1 BMW (if 1 bmw cost the same as 5 jettas?) Obviously the jetta costs more than that but if it did cost this little, i don't know about you but i'd pick the one nice car over 5 (why would i need 5) shitty ones
Poor analogy. You're talking about a system that's supposed to transport large masses of people. For the same price, it would make more sense to opt for the 5 Jettas that can transport 25 people instead of the one BMW that can transport only 5.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 12:18 PM   #508
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Quote:
Sprawling? Perhaps. But what city in North America (except new york) DOESN'T sprawl? And a sprawling mess? What makes it a mess? You need to explain those things. For instance. I repeatedly said in this post that you were full of shit. And I showed evidence for why I think this is true. If you make a claim that vancouver is a sprawling mss, or that vancouver has poor urban planning you need to provide evidence for that as well. As my analysis shows you've made tops 1 or 2 good points. And that's not enough.
The guys an idiot, i have asked him to back that up before, but as usual he didnt respond, and i wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt respond now either, he talks out of his ass, without backing anything up, atleast wally brings up some good things.

Your right though, in terms of urban planning, Vancouver planners win award after award, as a matter of fact, i am reading an article right now of Larry Beasley recognition of urban planning. Where do you think most cities come for advice when it comes to urban planning? thats right Vancouver. Good post though man, you really shut him up on most things he was saying.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 01:18 PM   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris550
npinguy: Skytrain is a BMW? What, did it get its engine ripped out or something? Because as far as I can see, performance-wise our C-Train has been kicking Skytrain's ass. The Official Spring 2005 statistics here show ridership numbers of 312 300 per day. Numbers that Vancouver still dreams to have, and with a far larger population base. I'm not going to argue with you about what Vancouver needs, and get the faster trains if you need to, but Calgary clearly has the better system here. Give credit where it is due.
I will certainly give credit to Calgary for finding a wonderful, successful transportation solution that suits the city well. I'm also happy you're not arguing that one can simply apply LRT to any situation like certain others are.

However, I don't think those station weekday ons & offs counts are really "ridership" numbers. That would mean, on weekdays alone, the LRT services over 80 million riders per year. So adding in weekend LRT ridership and everyday buses makes it only total 117.4 million passengers/year total system ridership? If so, that's quite a curious system.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 07:21 PM   #510
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Hmm... its on/off count, right? So shouldn't the number be divided by 2 since a passenger has to get on and then get off?

And seems like 38% of the passengers are boarding/leaving in the downtown section, I wonder how many of them doesn't leave the free fare zone...
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Old July 18th, 2005, 09:57 PM   #511
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Actually, I'm a little confused as well. I have seen our C-train ridership numbers referenced many times as around 220 000 a day, and the numbers on here didn't match that at all, even though the 220 000/day figure originally came from Calgary Transit itself. I don't know if this would also factor into the equation, but our transit ridership (buses + C-Train + BRT) is supposed be around 450 000 a year (buses are incredibly unpopular while C-Train is wanted by just about everybody -- I would much rather walk than take the bus).

EDIT: Not to hijack or anything, but since we are on the topic... the pic on the last page (described as our jetta...) is outdated. Calgary now uses both the old U2 trains and newer SD160's


DOUBLE EDIT: Okay, I looked here and if you add up the weekly ridership per line, it adds up to 216 200. At the same time, they list the average number of boarding passengers per day (2004) at 187 855, although that number would probably be just over 200 000 now...
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Old July 18th, 2005, 10:55 PM   #512
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Why are people bashing C-Train? It obviusly works more than fine for Calgary, that said it wouldn't work in Vancouver.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 01:49 AM   #513
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You know it's funny. We get non-Vancouverites coming onto this thread slamming Skytrain and Canada Line and boasting how great their LRTs are. Notice how we aren't complaining about your LRTs but you have the gall to come and tell us we should have the same. If C-Train works for Calgary then fantastic, good for Calgary. They've done a great job. It just won't work for Vancouver.

Do any of you RAV bashers live here or pay taxes here or vote here and commute on Cambie St or work on Cambie St or shop on Cambie St? Well I do. I live in East Van as do most of my co-workers and friends. The rest live in Delta or Surrey. We all support RAV and are not rich. I haven't ran into one person that doesn't support RAV. And I talk to quite a few people a day about this as I do a job that requires alot of talking...I am a bartender. Actually tell a lie. There was one person. A contradicting, patchouli stinking hippy chick said it's a really bad idea and they should never build RAV and instead just put more buses on the road(what a friggin paradox). But interestingly when I quizzed her on some of the basic plans for RAV she had no idea what I was talking about. In fact I realised she didn't know a single thing how, when or where RAV was being built. She thought that it was going to be elevated downtown for **** sakes.

Sort it out people. Vancouver is not a Calgary or Portland and never will be. We are a completely different city in layout and LRT would not work on a street such as Cambie....full stop! I invite you to come here and travel down Cambie St in rush hour(or anytime of day actually) like a do. It ****** sucks man. Try it and then come back here and tell us we need a lame LRT. In addition, Skytrain is great. I took it last night and I overheard a bunch of German tourists saying how fantastic it is and Vancouver has done a great job with building it.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 01:59 AM   #514
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Okay.

Is that the CTrain? It may work, but it looks like, um, crap.

Hahaha...cambie...

Last edited by addisonwesley; July 19th, 2005 at 02:09 AM.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 03:38 AM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris550
The Official Spring 2005 statistics here show ridership numbers of 312 300 per day. Numbers that Vancouver still dreams to have, and with a far larger population base. I'm not going to argue with you about what Vancouver needs, and get the faster trains if you need to, but Calgary clearly has the better system here. Give credit where it is due.
Yea Boris. Give credit where it is due. You might as well include all our trolley buses into the equation, because they are part of our system too. Give the Skytrain ten more years and come back to us then with ridership data. Calgary has had a head start.

Could someone please tell me what the difference is between a C-train and a regular bus? Sure it looks bigger, and it is on rails, but what else?
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Old July 19th, 2005, 03:47 AM   #516
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it has dedicated ROW and doesn't stop at intersections outside of downtown is what I have heard
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Old July 19th, 2005, 03:48 AM   #517
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Quote:
Skytrain is great. I took it last night and I overheard a bunch of German tourists saying how fantastic it is and Vancouver has done a great job with building it.
I love German accent!
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Old July 19th, 2005, 04:27 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumber73
Yea Boris. Give credit where it is due. You might as well include all our trolley buses into the equation, because they are part of our system too. Give the Skytrain ten more years and come back to us then with ridership data. Calgary has had a head start.

Could someone please tell me what the difference is between a C-train and a regular bus? Sure it looks bigger, and it is on rails, but what else?
Sry, forgot about the trolley buses. Do they get good ridership???

And yeah, what nname said about the C-Train too. Buses suck because they are slow, have to fight with traffic (despite what others say, C-Train rarely disrupts traffic, probably because we already have good freeways and such like someone already said), and can't go very far. I can hop on the C-Train and get to just about every major point in the city (zoo, university, downtown, different malls) and only maybe have to transfer to a different line once.

Overground: Just in case you were also referencing me there, I never said that LRT could work in Vancouver, and I was originally responding to a comment that was flaming the C-Train.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 04:49 AM   #519
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Trolleys have a ridership of 25 million/year.

I don't remember the average speeds of the C-Train but I do remember when compared to SkyTrain, it was much slower.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 04:52 AM   #520
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The C-Train seems much slower then the skytrain when I travel on them. The C-train's max speed i belive is 75 km/h, it rarely does go that fast though.
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