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Old July 19th, 2005, 04:57 AM   #521
Boris550
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It's true that it's slow, and I wish it would go faster. At least we shouldn't all be packed in like cattle once they start expanding the trains to 4 cars.

It makes sense that Vancouver should have a fast airport connection. I wouldn't want to C-Train it to our Airport at its current speed. That said, at least the C-train has good city coverage and is usually timely.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:40 AM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukh
The guys an idiot, i have asked him to back that up before, but as usual he didnt respond, and i wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt respond now either, he talks out of his ass, without backing anything up, atleast wally brings up some good things.

Your right though, in terms of urban planning, Vancouver planners win award after award, as a matter of fact, i am reading an article right now of Larry Beasley recognition of urban planning. Where do you think most cities come for advice when it comes to urban planning? thats right Vancouver. Good post though man, you really shut him up on most things he was saying.
Why thank you sukh! Yes, npinguy is an idiot. He has no back up and thinks whatever he says is the truth. I kinda suspect he is one of those typical Vancouver trolls, possibly even benji45 himself, who thinks Vancouver is so perfect (and he admits it too) that it is immuned to legitimate criticism. I admit, my achilles heal is not being in Vancouver today but given that I was there during this whole RAV fiasco and still follow the news simply because of my interest in urban transit (and what not to do), I assure you I do know what I'm talking about and continue to backup my claims.

One thing I would like to point out though is when discussing urban planning, I believe the one being referred to is the GVRD, not just the city of Vancouver. But when it comes to new urbanism and rail transit planning, a lot do come to Portland. I've heard or must have seen somewhere that even Translink went to Portland to look at how our MAX LRT works and lessons they can learn with regards to their Northeast Line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjoeda
Why are people bashing C-Train?
Because some people here are so damn defensive that they would bash successful transit systems elsewhere in a futile attempt to validate their twisted illogical mindsets that Vancouver's transit system is "perfect", even though it clearly is not.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:44 AM   #523
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Translink Vancouver was given the award of the "best transit system in NA"........very true. What Translink ommitted was it was in their category, meaning systems without subways. They were not compared to TTC, Montreal, NYC, LA, Philley, Chicago, WashingtonDC, Atlanta, SanFran, or Boston.
There are things I do like about Translink.
I think the trolleys are quiet, efficient, good for the enviornment and well patronised.
I think the 98 & 99B lines are excellent. The Seabus does its job well.
The EXPO line get OK ridership and the trains are always clean, bright, and extremly frequent. They are also far to small and the stations can be downright dangerous.
The Millenium Line I think was a waste with shitty ridership. It will increase when the NES line is completed and the develpoment along the line takes place but it will still be a long time before it even hits 100k/day.
The SkyTrain has proven to be an expensive but extremly safe technology.
There has never been an accident on a SkyTrain and that is something to be proud of.
The MLine should proceed east underground to Arbutus, underground. The high residential and commerical corridor along Broadway justifies the cost. RAV does not.
The whole point of SkyTrain is that it has no road contact but there is no tunneling.....RAV negates that backed up with a low density road. Its only expected to carry 40,000k/day more passengers a day by 2020 for a total of 70-80k. Thats piss poor anyway you slice it.
Translink is expensive to ride as to compare it to Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa/Calgary in coverage you would need to by a TWO zone pass. Similar price as Tor/Mon but inferior service, especially at night. Calgary's is much cheaper.

Vancouver Translink will NEVER get the ridership numbers of Tor/Mon or probably even Ott/Cal due to the city being very spread out with employment centres all over, too much low density housing and in Vancouver transit in many ways is still seen as a poor man's ride. It is good for point to point travel especially for the burbs but ineffectual for most city dwellers.
A case in point: there asre going to be 4 RAV stops in Richmond very close together but there will be no stops between KingEd and Broadway............16 blocks in the city. Again, Translink builds for suburbanites and point to point travel and it is reflected in its relativly poor transit ridership numbers, especially considering the amount of money they have thrown into the SkyTrain system.
Is it a bad system??? Not at all. In the city itself I find the bus service excellent but it will never be on a par with Tor/Mon becuase its rapid transit is suburban not urban and it is the urbanites who take transit from neighbourhood to neighbourhood not mall to mall.
When Ottawa has higher transit ridership levels and all they built way a busway Vancouver should stop and reflect upon that.
Why...simple, because Translink build suburban lines first and then moves closer to the city all others serve the city dwellers and then move out to serve the inner than outer suburbs.
Its a good system in many ways but not near what it could have been with some planning and proper use of resources.
I must admit thou I think some of it is a Westcoast thing. People in Vancouver still see transit as the last resort even if it is the best choice, much like a lot of L.A.ers do.
In Tor/Mon and even Ott/Cal this is not so much the case. It iis seen as a viable alternative no matter what your income. Strangley enough not even Calgarians, I find, think of transit as only the last resort.

The transit system in Vancouver is basically a pretty good one it just bothers me when I see Translink spending money like a madman with little to show for it.
From when I moved to Vancouver til now { I'm in Vancouver a lot and always use transit} I can honestly say that it is 100% better than when I moved here in '89.

Vancouver does seem to want to make a concerted effort to make transit an option and that has shown positive results.
So for all of you who thought I hated Translink think again.
Maybe in terms of transit Vancouver is a lot like LA in its attitudes and that's a hard thing to overcome.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 07:33 AM   #524
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Rather than complain about RAV (since the line itself is overdue), a more constructive way to solve the ridership crisis is to change the political dynamic at city hall and ensure that high density will be built along Cambie. The longer it's delayed, the more likely the feds & the BC Liberals will pull out of the project (since the 2010 deadline can't be met).

Elect MORE pro-development councillors. Beat the NIMBYs at their own game.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 08:51 AM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
Translink Vancouver was given the award of the "best transit system in NA"........very true. What Translink ommitted was it was in their category, meaning systems without subways. They were not compared to TTC, Montreal, NYC, LA, Philley, Chicago, WashingtonDC, Atlanta, SanFran, or Boston.
There are things I do like about Translink.
I think the trolleys are quiet, efficient, good for the enviornment and well patronised.
I think the 98 & 99B lines are excellent. The Seabus does its job well.
The EXPO line get OK ridership and the trains are always clean, bright, and extremly frequent. They are also far to small and the stations can be downright dangerous.
The Millenium Line I think was a waste with shitty ridership. It will increase when the NES line is completed and the develpoment along the line takes place but it will still be a long time before it even hits 100k/day.
The SkyTrain has proven to be an expensive but extremly safe technology.
There has never been an accident on a SkyTrain and that is something to be proud of.
The MLine should proceed east underground to Arbutus, underground. The high residential and commerical corridor along Broadway justifies the cost. RAV does not.
The whole point of SkyTrain is that it has no road contact but there is no tunneling.....RAV negates that backed up with a low density road. Its only expected to carry 40,000k/day more passengers a day by 2020 for a total of 70-80k. Thats piss poor anyway you slice it.
Translink is expensive to ride as to compare it to Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa/Calgary in coverage you would need to by a TWO zone pass. Similar price as Tor/Mon but inferior service, especially at night. Calgary's is much cheaper.

Vancouver Translink will NEVER get the ridership numbers of Tor/Mon or probably even Ott/Cal due to the city being very spread out with employment centres all over, too much low density housing and in Vancouver transit in many ways is still seen as a poor man's ride. It is good for point to point travel especially for the burbs but ineffectual for most city dwellers.
A case in point: there asre going to be 4 RAV stops in Richmond very close together but there will be no stops between KingEd and Broadway............16 blocks in the city. Again, Translink builds for suburbanites and point to point travel and it is reflected in its relativly poor transit ridership numbers, especially considering the amount of money they have thrown into the SkyTrain system.
Is it a bad system??? Not at all. In the city itself I find the bus service excellent but it will never be on a par with Tor/Mon becuase its rapid transit is suburban not urban and it is the urbanites who take transit from neighbourhood to neighbourhood not mall to mall.
When Ottawa has higher transit ridership levels and all they built way a busway Vancouver should stop and reflect upon that.
Why...simple, because Translink build suburban lines first and then moves closer to the city all others serve the city dwellers and then move out to serve the inner than outer suburbs.
Its a good system in many ways but not near what it could have been with some planning and proper use of resources.
I must admit thou I think some of it is a Westcoast thing. People in Vancouver still see transit as the last resort even if it is the best choice, much like a lot of L.A.ers do.
In Tor/Mon and even Ott/Cal this is not so much the case. It iis seen as a viable alternative no matter what your income. Strangley enough not even Calgarians, I find, think of transit as only the last resort.

The transit system in Vancouver is basically a pretty good one it just bothers me when I see Translink spending money like a madman with little to show for it.
From when I moved to Vancouver til now { I'm in Vancouver a lot and always use transit} I can honestly say that it is 100% better than when I moved here in '89.

Vancouver does seem to want to make a concerted effort to make transit an option and that has shown positive results.
So for all of you who thought I hated Translink think again.
Maybe in terms of transit Vancouver is a lot like LA in its attitudes and that's a hard thing to overcome.
It seems like you've contradicted yourself a hundred times in this post.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 09:00 AM   #526
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Whose really ganna read that long ass post, not me. GEEZ lmao.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 09:02 AM   #527
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@ mr.x

Hundreds of times, eh? Care to elaborate on where ssiguy2 contracted himself hundreds of times? Or is it that because his opinion differs than yours, then you attack him just as you attack me and others who happen to not share your childish views? As far as I can see, he is far more knowledgable on the topic than you or most of the RAV Line supporters and he backs up his claim with facts, not mindless desire for toy trains at whatever the costs. Have it ever occured to you that perhaps the reason why ssiguy2 criticizes RAV so much is because the way it is in its current form is solely due to you and your neighbors forcing it to be that way? It truly does not make any sense to build a subway on a sparsely populated area, in a city that has no desire to densify the corridor, at the expense of those people in the eastern areas who truly need rapid transit system so they can have more options to getting at work or school other than their own personal automobile.

Last edited by [email protected]; July 19th, 2005 at 09:08 AM.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 10:09 AM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Because some people here are so damn defensive that they would bash successful transit systems elsewhere in a futile attempt to validate their twisted illogical mindsets that Vancouver's transit system is "perfect", even though it clearly is not.
Is that why you bash Skytrain? Calgary's system isnt perfect an neither is Portland.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 07:58 PM   #529
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I have not contradicted myself.
You have NEVER heard me complain about SkyTrain safety or cleanliness and frequency but have complained about the crime around the stations. I have NEVER complained about the honour system..EVER.
I have NEVER had anything but praise for the trolley system and the inner city bus service.
I have always been very supportive and pleased with the excellent 98 & 99 BLines and have always advocated for their expansion.
All you have heard me bitch about is the MLine and especially RAV.
I have ALWAYS stated how I think the MLine should be extended west UNDERGROUND because both the residential and commercial density along Broadway justify it.
I have always complained about the cost of MLine with poor ridership levels. As I stated before it shoul have been LRT and then underground past Commercial.

For me the biggest complaints have always been RAV {namely the tunnelling} and the SkyTrain routes taken as I do not think point to point rapid transit is effective {as the ridership numbers prove} and Translink's infactuation with being more of a suburban system in terms of their rapid transit.
I have NOT contradicted myself.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 12:38 AM   #530
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Bike lanes approved for Burrard Bridge

Last updated Jul 19 2005 02:35 PM PDT
CBC News

Vancouver city council has voted overwhelmingly to close two of the six lanes on the Burrard Bridge to motor vehicles – turning them into dedicated bike lanes.

The closure will begin next April on a one-year trial basis.

Council's decision follows a public hearing Tuesday morning which heard strong opposition to a city staff recommendation to widen the outside of the old bridge – to accommodate cyclists and pedestrians.

* LINK: City staff report detailing various options (1.64 MB .pdf) External site

City council has struggled for years with how to make the Burrard Bridge safer for pedestrians and cyclists who currently share the two sidewalks – with painted dividing lines to keep them separate.

The chair of the Transportation and Traffic Committee, Fred Bass, says this is happiest day on city council. But he says he knows there will be complaints.

"There will be motorists who want to cut my throat, I'm sure of that. But I will say to them, that number one, we want motorists to move as smoothly as possible, as quickly as possible," he says.

"This is not to get in the way of motorists. But this is to make maximum efficient use of the roadway."

The same experiment was tried for several day in the 1990s. triggering a loud outcry from motorists.

City council is also considering widening sidewalks – either inside or outside the current bridge structure – at a cost of $13 million. But that decision is expected to remain on hold until council deals with the results of the lane closure experiment.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 01:20 AM   #531
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I'm wondering if the station names on the RAV finalized or not. Seems like there are some stations that will use the same name. For example, there are "Broadway Station" on both the Expo and RAV lines, and "Cambie Station" on both RAV line and the future M-Line extension...
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Old July 20th, 2005, 02:07 AM   #532
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Good news on the bike lanes!!

For the stations - on the SSP forum one of the forummers spoke with a rep and they said Broadway would likely be "Broadway/City Hall" or just "City Hall".
Other names are "Yaletown", "False Creek South", and probably "Oakridge" and "Langara".
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Old July 20th, 2005, 02:48 AM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
@ mr.x

Hundreds of times, eh? Care to elaborate on where ssiguy2 contracted himself hundreds of times? Or is it that because his opinion differs than yours, then you attack him just as you attack me and others who happen to not share your childish views? As far as I can see, he is far more knowledgable on the topic than you or most of the RAV Line supporters and he backs up his claim with facts, not mindless desire for toy trains at whatever the costs. Have it ever occured to you that perhaps the reason why ssiguy2 criticizes RAV so much is because the way it is in its current form is solely due to you and your neighbors forcing it to be that way? It truly does not make any sense to build a subway on a sparsely populated area, in a city that has no desire to densify the corridor, at the expense of those people in the eastern areas who truly need rapid transit system so they can have more options to getting at work or school other than their own personal automobile.
"Hundreds of times" was exagerrated to make a point. and I'm doing the attacking? You're doing all the attacking, you're the one that's constantly insulting me even in topics that do not regard you. Things like believing I want a "toy train" and I'm "creme de la creme", well if you repeat "He believes that..." a thousand times you'll end up believing that even though it's not true and even when I've said that's not true.

Has it ever occured to you that Vancouverites here don't agree with you and ssiguy2 because you're all constantly pessmistic about RAV? Really, you both don't live in Vancouver - how does this affect you? If you really do care about the region, stop b!tching about it because it's getting nowhere here in this forum - why not do something if you actually care! RAV has a 99% chance of going ahead and as how it is right now.

"Hate" is your theme.....and again, as I have said before, I don't like the tunneling south of Queen Elizabeth Park as it should be elevated. But your paranoia and constant mumbling blinds you to thinking I want it, just exactly like Queetz. And you're blaming people 10 km away? If anything, blame those who live along the Cambie corridor, not 10 km away. I blame them as well but at the same time this isn't a doomsday project as you and your colleague stress it as. Those who live in Point Grey have hardly anything to do with the tunneling of RAV the whole way in Vancouer, it's all Cambie corridor residents that's doing it. With this logic, you may as well blame the whole nation of the United States of America for going to war........the fact was that there were many who protested against the war and who vote for the other party - the people who are to blame is the administration and the people who voted for Bush. It's the same analogy.

As far as I can see it, the supporters here know more about the project as they ACTUALLY LIVE HERE in the city where the line will be built and aren't blinded by hate.

RAV is a done deal as you see it, tunneling won't change at this point of the project timeline. There's a time for being pessimistic and there's a time for being optimistic, now is that time.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 03:21 AM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt_0891
Bike lanes approved for Burrard Bridge.

The same experiment was tried for several day in the 1990s. triggering a loud outcry from motorists.
I don't understand what the problem is for motorists. They will not be able to go 30km/h over the speed limit anymore?

I would think they'd want to put in some sort of divider to separate the bikes from traffic. That's what I'd want if I were taking my bike across. A thick painted line wouldn't cut it for me. I don't trust other motorists.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 03:46 AM   #535
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The 1990s one week (?) trial test was not publicized and consisted of orange pylons blocking off lanes - that half-assed attempt was used for years as justification for not removing a lane. With proper information traffic will disperse.

I think the plan is to install a low concrete median to separate the bike lane from the car lanes - as well as normalizing the intersection at the north end of the bridge (i.e. no merge lanes to/from Pacific.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 02:20 PM   #536
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Thats so stupid, close off two lanes, anti road as usual is council.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 11:56 PM   #537
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The bike lanes are dumb. They should build an extensive network of bike lanes befor they clog up traffic on one of only 3 bridges that lead downtown. I read in todays paper that less then 6% of all traffic including pedestrians is bikes.

I hope the clowns that run Vancouver get kick out in November, Larry Campbell is the only half sane person in COPE.
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Old July 21st, 2005, 12:34 AM   #538
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Well I think they are closing off two lanes in hope people will start to use alternative ways other then driving.
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Old July 21st, 2005, 12:50 AM   #539
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Yeah I think its a message to people that they better find a different way to get to work, which is not all bad but you dont want to completely alienate motorists. Im guessing building any new bridges is out of the question??
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Old July 21st, 2005, 12:59 AM   #540
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http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/newsrel...bikeroutes.htm

The City opened 6 new bike routes in June. The southbound Burrard Street bike lane will be opened this fall when Burrard street is repaved. Hornby provides the northbound route.

City opens six new bike routes in June

As part of Bike Month 2005, and its continuing support for sustainability initiatives, the City of Vancouver will officially open six new bike routes in June. The first event -- Kent Avenue Bikeway Opening -- was held yesterday in Gladstone Park.

Upcoming events include:

Homer Street Bike Lane Opening
Monday, June 6, 2005 5-6 pm
David Lam Park (Homer Street at Pacific Avenue)

Gladstone Bikeway Opening
Thursday, June 9, 2005 5-6 pm
Mini-Park (Gladstone Street at Vanness Avenue)

Hornby Street Bike Lane Opening
Monday, June 13, 2005 5-6 pm
Northwest corner (Hornby Street at Pacific Avenue)

10th Avenue Bikeway Opening
Wednesday, June 22, 2005 5-6 pm
City Hall, North Lawn
(Cambie Street at 10th Avenue)

Beatty Street Bike Lanes Opening
Monday, June 27, 2005 5-6 pm
Terry Fox Plaza (Beatty Street at Robson Street).
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