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Old May 15th, 2005, 04:52 AM   #41
ssiguy2
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It will never go above liike reg SkyTrain because it would be an eyesore poor westsiders.
Mid-size cities are no longer building subways..they are LRTing it.
God, we would have a great transit system if we would just follow Calgary's lead.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 05:35 AM   #42
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That is true. I moved from the Vancouver area to Portland last year and I am impressed by their surface based LRT systems over here. For the amount of money spent on Skytrain and RAV, one can build a Portland or Calgary style LRT system that can cover all of the Lower Mainland. I don't understand why Vancouver is so reluctant to embrace such a tested and proven system that is popular to so many cities around the world. They aren't exactly as big as New York or Toronto so why spend billions on a subway when a surface LRT system, properly planned, can easily do the same thing? As I said, RAV is such a sham!
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Old May 15th, 2005, 05:38 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
That is true. I moved from the Vancouver area to Portland last year and I am impressed by their surface based LRT systems over here. I don't understand why Vancouver is so reluctant to embrace such a tested and proven system that is popular to so many cities around the world. They aren't exactly as big as New York or Toronto so why spend billions on a subway when a surface LRT system, properly planned, can easily do the same thing? As I said, RAV is such a sham!
Exactly. LRT has been successful in Melbourne and all these great cities, yet Vancouver dumps cold water over it .. I wonder why? It's not like they're ugly. Maybe the NE Coquitlam line will prove how successful and affordable LRT will be for low density areas of the GVRD.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 05:56 AM   #44
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im sorr y i dont have time to read the thread but can some one tell me if there is a subway in Van-city or if there are any plans for it in the future?
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Old May 15th, 2005, 06:07 AM   #45
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There is no subway in Vancouver. Skytrain runs on elevated rights of way for most of its 2 lines with the exception of a short underground section in downtown Vancouver. The current plan is to build another line to the airport and the southern suburb of Richmond in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 07:29 AM   #46
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8km of the RAV line will be underground.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 10:48 AM   #47
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OMG.... Vancouver is different. If LRT is built, then there will be NO MORE LEFT TURNS on those arterial roads which means MORE CONGESTION and LESS ALLEVIATION of traffic. The case for each city is different people!!! Even though Vancouver is a mid-sized city, but the city is currently projecting growth rates at DOUBLE DIGITS. The RAV line is aiming at spurring growth even more. If you want to blame, blame the past. The city has demolished their WHOLE streetcar system for cars. Now, things are just going to get better and I personally do not want this line to be STOPPED AGAIN!!!! The line got 1 billion CAD funding and if it will be cancelled again, that funding will be GONE and then the line will NEVER be considered for at least another 10 years.

P.S. I would not want the Green Party or the NDP to win the provincial election because if that happens, this line will be cancelled yet again. (This line has been proposed ever since the 1970's)
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Old May 15th, 2005, 07:01 PM   #48
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Its not that there is anything wrong with RAV, I greatly support the idea but 1.74billion for 80,000 passengers a day is offensive. They already admit that coming from the airport it will only be 6 minutes faster than the current B-Line on Granville.
Lrt would get the same ridership and a few tunnels could be built.ie Broadway to KingEd and at 41st but that is all that is need. If they did LRT they would be able to upgrade the EXISTINg rail bridge and use it. By doing just that they could save a billion bucks, litterally. That would pay for the SkyTrain extention to Cambie and the Coquitlam line.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 07:15 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr!Kiasu
"Replace the electric trolley fleet with 228 new, zero-emmission, low-floor trolley buses between 2005 and 2007"

will these be hydrogen fuel cell powered?
Translink is order low floor trackless trolley from New Flyer.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 09:20 PM   #50
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1 billion for RAV is nothing when you consider that the feds wasted 1 billion on a gun registry database....
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Old May 16th, 2005, 05:30 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by en
1 billion for RAV is nothing when you consider that the feds wasted 1 billion on a gun registry database....
But unlike the federal treasury, $1 billion is a lot for translink and GVRD to afford.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 07:30 AM   #52
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RAV line requires blasting: Critics claim popularity of project has plummeted because of cut-and-cover method
William Boei
Vancouver Sun
10 May 2005

VANCOUVER - Construction of the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit line will require blasting of volcanic rock where the route curves around Little Mountain, Ravco confirmed Monday.

Ravco, a TransLink subsidiary overseeing development of the RAV line, did not specify in an information bulletin Monday how much blasting might be needed in the vicinity of Little Mountain, which is the remnant of a long-extinct volcano.

The need for blasting had not been confirmed until now, RAV line critic Rand Chatterjee said, but it came as no surprise.

"They did not specify blasting in their noise study, but everyone expected it," Chatterjee said, noting other construction projects as far north as Cambie at 16th Avenue have run into volcanic rock near the surface.

Also Monday, the Do RAV Right Coalition released poll results suggesting support for the RAV line has fallen to under 60 per cent, and that nearly half of Greater Vancouver residents disagree with the proposed use of the controversial "cut and cover" method of tunnel-building.

As well, Gregor Robertson, the NDP candidate in Vancouver-Fairview, called on Ravco and Premier Gordon Campbell to reveal much more information about RAV line costs and contracts so the public can judge whether the cut-and-cover approach is necessary.

Early plans for the RAV line showed it running through a tunnel bored deep underground all the way from downtown Vancouver to Cambie and 37th Avenue. But the environmental approval process revealed earlier this year that surface trench-digging (cut and cover) would be used from Cambie and Second Avenue to 37th.

Merchants and residents along the route have been up in arms ever since, and recently won an extension of a public comment period on the line's environmental impact until May 16, the day before the provincial election.

The Do RAV Right poll found 34.2 per cent of respondents strongly support the RAV line and 23.4 per cent somewhat support it. It found 20.7 per cent were strongly opposed and 14.4 per cent somewhat opposed, for a total of 57.6 per cent for the line and 35.1 per cent opposed.

But 49.2 per cent were either strongly or somewhat opposed to cut-and-cover construction, while only 26.7 per cent supported it.

Strategic Communications asked 300 Greater Vancouver residents for their views, for a margin of error of 5.7 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Chatterjee, who speaks for the coalition, said he has little doubt the RAV line's popularity has plummeted -- it was reported at 70 to 80 per cent several years ago -- because of the controversy over construction methods.

"A sizable plurality of folks are against the RAV line because of the cut-and-cover," he said.

Chatterjee said he thinks the project can be built on time if a second tunnel-boring machine is used south of False Creek, rather than just the one proposed to bore from Granville and Dunsmuir to Cambie and Second.

Robertson said he would like the project to revert to the original deep-tunnel plan, but added the NDP doesn't want budget overruns and "We're not going to rip up contracts like Gordon Campbell has done."

If cost or contracts bind the project to cut-and-cover, the emphasis will have to be on mitigating the impacts, he said, but Ravco has not made enough information public to make that judgment.

"There are a lot of documents still not available to the public, and transparency is what's needed to understand all the costs related to construction," Robertson said.

"If there are privacy issues related to the contracts, then let the attorney-general do a full review of this. But there needs to be scrutiny as to how all the costs were arrived at."
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Old May 16th, 2005, 03:07 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
That is true. I moved from the Vancouver area to Portland last year and I am impressed by their surface based LRT systems over here. For the amount of money spent on Skytrain and RAV, one can build a Portland or Calgary style LRT system that can cover all of the Lower Mainland. I don't understand why Vancouver is so reluctant to embrace such a tested and proven system that is popular to so many cities around the world. They aren't exactly as big as New York or Toronto so why spend billions on a subway when a surface LRT system, properly planned, can easily do the same thing? As I said, RAV is such a sham!

Well... New York is New York a massive city, but i am shocked and surprised at the numbers Toronto has for its ridership, over 800 000 daily, wow that is good for a mid sized city. They must be doing everything right there.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 05:40 AM   #54
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Vancouver's RAV line will be going under Cambie.........a single family housing road for 70blocks!! Low density, unbeleivable waste of money.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 07:20 PM   #55
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Money-losing Millennium Line falls far short of targeted ridership
Numbers up over 2003 but goal still 'years' away: McCallum

Frank Luba

The Province

Monday, May 16, 2005

Ridership on SkyTrain's Millennium Line this year is up 34 per cent over 2003 but is still well below its target and TransLink chairman Doug McCallum says it will be "years" before it gets there.

Weekday boardings in February were 48,100, compared to 35,900 in February 2003.

Add in weekday boardings from Columbia station and the total jumps to 59,100, according to a report going Friday to TransLink's board.

But the target predicted by B.C.'s Rapid Transit Project Office, which oversaw construction of the Millennium Line, was to have 75,000 boardings per day by 2006.

"We won't be hitting those [targets] for a couple of years," McCallum said yesterday.

"I think it will reach its targets once we build light rail out to the northeast sector." The extension will link Coquitlam Town Centre with the Millennium Line.

McCallum also said a number of commercial and residential projects planned for the Millennium Line will also boost ridership.

But they are still in the works and the light-rail connection isn't likely to be completed until "early in 2009."

The older Expo SkyTrain Line, which is crammed like a sardine can at peak hours, covers its operating expenses.

The Millennium Line lost $27 million in 2003 but McCallum isn't sure of current losses.

In 2003, the Millennium Line dropped about $17 million more than it collected in fares and also incurred extra expenses such as borrowing costs, a new works yard, computer changes, bus loops and paying for a portion of a waterfront park in New Westminster.

None of that includes the cost of paying for the $1.172-billion project, which was picked up by the province.

The problems with the Millennium Line ridership do not sway McCallum's support of the $1.72- billion Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit project, which is expected to have riders going to Richmond at the same time as travellers head into Vancouver.

"The ridership is there and will be even greater when it's finished," said McCallum.

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Old May 18th, 2005, 12:28 AM   #56
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Couple of notes:

The Millennium Line is still incomplete. Phase 2 is the Coquitlam extension and Phase 3 is the Broadway extension. Until those are built (or at least until the Coquitlam LRT is built), it will be under projections.

WRT street-running LRT in Vancouver - City Council said NO in a big way to any thought of street level LRT for the RAV line. After the first NO vote at the GVRD, the City of Vancouver reaffirmed its position - which caused some board members to cahnge their votes. The comparison to Portland and Calgary aren't good ones, because they have extensive freeway systems - so fewer cars use the arterial roads the LRT runs on. Vancouver doesn't have freeways - all it has are arterial roads, so clogging them up with LRT would be painful.

As for capacity - these lines are built for the future, not the present. If you build for the present, you'll always be behind. How often do you hear about infrastructure facities that are currently handling much more than its original design specification?
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Old May 18th, 2005, 10:59 AM   #57
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I agree that the Millenium Line will come along as soon as the NE line is done and especially when the Broadway ext is finally done.
The RAV line will never get more than 150k a day. Still low ridership for 1.74 billion. It will takes atleast 30 to reach that number as by 2011 they only expect 80 to 90K a day.
The GVRD is not growing fast enough to quantify this kind of expense. This made worse by Vancouver's legendary poor urban planning which is allowing Surrey and Coq to be the fastest growing. Richmond is only growing at 1.3% a year.
LRT will be fine for atleast 50 years. Remember a lot of the ridership figures are also quite deceptive. They will get those numbers by transferring many routes {like the busy Granville} to cross Cambie . It will actually take longer to get downtown from Marpole with the RAV than just the regular Trolley to say nothing of the BLine.
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Old May 19th, 2005, 03:36 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
I agree that the Millenium Line will come along as soon as the NE line is done and especially when the Broadway ext is finally done.
The RAV line will never get more than 150k a day. Still low ridership for 1.74 billion. It will takes atleast 30 to reach that number as by 2011 they only expect 80 to 90K a day.
The GVRD is not growing fast enough to quantify this kind of expense. This made worse by Vancouver's legendary poor urban planning which is allowing Surrey and Coq to be the fastest growing. Richmond is only growing at 1.3% a year.
LRT will be fine for atleast 50 years. Remember a lot of the ridership figures are also quite deceptive. They will get those numbers by transferring many routes {like the busy Granville} to cross Cambie . It will actually take longer to get downtown from Marpole with the RAV than just the regular Trolley to say nothing of the BLine.
and marpole is the 2nd densest neighborhood outside of downtown in Vancouver (city)


so.........yeah................things aren't perfect to say the least.
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Old May 19th, 2005, 05:23 AM   #59
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Burnaby councillors still unhappy with idea of firearms for SkyTrain police
18 May 2005
Vancouver Sun

BURNABY - If TransLink wants to sell Burnaby council on the idea of armed SkyTrain police, they're going to have to try harder. Burnaby has more SkyTrain stations than any other municipalities and councillors raised concerns about the force last month.

In a response, Supt. Carl Schmietenknop of the Burnaby RCMP noted that the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority Policing Service will consist of about 90 officers. The service is hiring existing or retiring officers from RCMP and municipal forces.

All will get testing and/or training to ensure they meet policing standards, including firearms and use-of-force training.

Coun. Lee Rankin said it's reassuring that most transit police will be experienced officers. But he wondered whether they will be equipped with non-lethal alternatives to firearms, such as Tasers or bean bag guns.

Coun. Doug Evans said firearms are not needed and the presence of officers would be enough of a deterrent to crime.
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Old May 19th, 2005, 09:03 AM   #60
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Bean bag guns? What are they thinking?
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