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Old August 12th, 2005, 09:24 AM   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
it'll probably top of at $2 billion when finished or maybe $2.1. it's a good deal. the private sector is responsible for so much and when it's completed, Translink will give InTransitBC a nudge on quality control.
If its such a good deal, then why are GVRD taxpayers, including those who live in West Vancouver, Maple Ridge, etc are on the hook if the 100k ridership a day does not materialize? Ridership forecasts is the hardest part to predict in ANY transit project and given that it is required that there are 100k ppl using RAV a day for the next 35 years (I'm assuming this includes weekends and holidays), why this is passed to the GVRD taxpayers is beyond me. I hope municipalities getting shafted do the right thing and separate from this poorly managed region. A fair PPP project should pass the risks entirely to the private consortium since it is they that would ultimately profit from it.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 10:50 AM   #622
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I think we need to have one uniform name for our entire system so it doesn't get confusing for newcomers or even residents that don't always use it. I don't have a problem with calling it Skytrain but it is odd that a line that isn't Skytrain and goes mainly underground would be called Skytrain. I was thinking the entire system could be called a Metro or something similar. I really don't think Translink has even thought of this yet.

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Old August 12th, 2005, 11:22 AM   #623
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Why not call it the Skytrain? As you said the Underground isn't underground all the way in London. Nor is the "El" in Chicago elevated all the way either.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 11:22 AM   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
^ Oh please! It should only be called Skytrain if it truly is Sky-Train! A train high up in the sky!!!! High above the homes of the creme de la creme!

what is with ur obsession with the creme de la creme?
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Old August 12th, 2005, 12:56 PM   #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardo89
what is with ur obsession with the creme de la creme?
I agree. It's getting a bit old.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 02:01 PM   #626
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Canada Red line!
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Old August 12th, 2005, 05:53 PM   #627
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Richmond-Airport-Vancouver line. Excellent.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 10:04 PM   #628
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The Annual Report said it would be called the "Canada Line". The fact it's being called a "line" means it'll probably be branded as part of the existing system - i.e. Skytrain - likely with Translink colours since Translink retains control of marketing.

As others have mentioned, the Underground isn't always underground, the Subway isn't always undergound, and the El isn't always elevated. The Canada Line will be elevated for a signficant part of its length - on Sea Island and in Richmond.

As for Wally's obsession with the creme de la creme - he's probably gearing up for a Portland creme battle:

http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=6569

**************
NEWS STORY

A STREETCAR NAMED QUAGMIRE
Ritzy residences rail against possible streetcar extension.


BY BRANDON HARTLEY
bhartley at wweek.com

While the Portland Streetcar grinds toward South Waterfront, the line's potential further extension is generating "not in my backyard'' shouts from well-heeled residents along the Willamette River.

The NIMBYism alert ahead from wealthy homeowners comes as Metro enters the early stages of an 18-month study of transportation options between Portland and Lake Oswego.

Traffic projections on already-congested Highway 43 estimate an increase of up to 25 percent over the next two decades on the narrow, four-lane highway. One solution: a roughly seven-mile extension of the streetcar into downtown Lake Oswego, rumbling past palatial homes with values as high as $3 million in Riverwood, Dunthorpe and Briarwood.

Richard Brandman, Metro's transportation planning director, calls the idea "at the embryonic stage" and promises extensive public involvement. If the streetcar proposal survives Metro's study, construction on the rail option lies at least four years away, Brandman says.

But Charles Ormsby, a neighborhood activist in Briarwood, is worried now about extending the streetcar along the Willamette Shore Rail Line past cliffs and through a limited-access tunnel.

"There's three concerns: Solitude. Security. Safety," Ormsby says. "These are quiet neighborhoods. Plus, the drivers sit behind locked doors. What if something happens as these trains pass over the steep hills around Riverdale?"

Among his concerns: cop response time to muggers, crazies, terrorism, accidents, and potential earthquakes.

Briarwood homeowner William Gilmer says the streetcar "would do absolutely nothing for our neighborhood," both reducing property values and killing his plans to build a second house nearby.

In Riverwood, the line comes within 6 feet of several backyards, porches, living-room windows and one tennis court. Further down the line in Briarwood, it sits within a few dozen feet of houses.

An antique excursion trolley uses the line primarily from May through October, completing 20 two-hour round trips a week between Lake Oswego and Portland. The Portland Streetcar, which hits downtown stops every 13 minutes on weekdays, would pass by much more often every day of the year.

The streetcar extension isn't Metro's only option. Other ideas under consideration include a river transit service and a rapid bus line that could require pullouts or its own lane on Highway 43.

Dave Wiley, an area resident for over 50 years, isn't worried about the noise of increased rail traffic and recalls an era when freight trains once used the tracks. "One of them passed through here every morning at 5 am," Wiley says. "We learned to sleep through it."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally published on WEDNESDAY, 8/3/2005
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Old August 12th, 2005, 10:16 PM   #629
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The newspapers said that the majority of ridership responsibility remains with Translink (90%) because Translink refused to give up to InTransitBC (SNC-Lavalin) responsibility for the operational aspects that determine ridership - i.e. fare structure, train frequency and marketing. Translink wants to retain those operational aspects to properly coordinate with the rest of the transit system. That makes sense.

InTransitBC refused to accept liability for ridership if it could not also control the factors that determine ridership.

The 10% liability that InTransitBC assumed is related to maintenance of the trains (i.e. if a train breaks down, there's a resulting loss in ridership. This risk has been allocated at 10%)

*****

One thing that people have failed to highlight - if the line was a fully government funded line - without the PPP - that $180 million increase would have lead to the cancellation of the line if additional government funding wasn't found. With the PPP we don't have to worry about scrambling to find additional government funding.
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Old August 13th, 2005, 05:36 AM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
We don't know yet....but the Oakridge area has the potential of being the next Metrotown. condos! condos! condos!.....and office towes.................
its obviously gonna be like a metrotown. hopefully they build a few 20+ story buildings.
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Old August 13th, 2005, 12:24 PM   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
^ Oh please! It should only be called Skytrain if it truly is Sky-Train! A train high up in the sky!!!! High above the homes of the creme de la creme!
It goes to the AIRPORT. Airport = Sky. Also there are elevated sections on the line, it's not like that there isn't any elevated portions.
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Old August 13th, 2005, 01:13 PM   #632
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It's not like the current sections are all elevated either - aren't there underground sections in central Van and NWM?
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Old August 13th, 2005, 07:06 PM   #633
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^ yes there are three underground stations downtown and one in 1 in New Westminister, also part of the both the millenium and expo lines run at grade and underground.
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Old August 14th, 2005, 05:05 AM   #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
Why not call it the Skytrain? As you said the Underground isn't underground all the way in London. Nor is the "El" in Chicago elevated all the way either.
The New York subway runs underground in Manhattan, is elevated (at one point 88 feet above street level!) in the outer boroughs of Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens (although not exclusively), and runs at grade at the far reaches in Queens into the Rockaways. The entire system is still referred to as a "subway". Even when the majority of the line is above-ground, it's still referred to as a subway and not an el, or simply just the train.
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Old August 24th, 2005, 10:02 PM   #635
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From this week's BIV:

Business in Vancouver August 23-29, 2005; issue 826

Offshore investment accounts for the lion's share of RAV's private sector funding

$600 million to finance the rapid transit line's construction will be coming from three major European financial institutions

Andrew Petrozzi

European financing will provide most of the private sector funding needed to keep construction of Vancouver's RAV rapid transit line on track.

Roughly $1.25 billion (2003 dollars) for the project has come from the Vancouver International Airport Authority, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink) and the three levels of government. The remaining $720 million needed for RAV construction was raised by InTransitBC LP in the private sector. The majority of that funding - $600 million through debt financing - has come from three European financial institutions: the Bank of Ireland, Société Générale and Norddeutsche Landesbank Girozentrale.

No details of the European financing agreements or repayment terms have been released, according to InTransitBC spokesman Steve Crombie.

"The money will be paid back over time, keeping in mind that the concession agreement is for 35 years," he said. "We need five years basically to build the project, and then 30 years to operate it. So there is an operating agreement for InTransitBC following the completion of construction, and there is obviously some terms attached to the financing."

The remaining $120 million in equity financing will come through InTransitBC and includes partners SNC-Lavalin, the British Columbia Investment Management Corp. and Quebec's Caisee de dépôt. Each provided $40 million, according to Crombie.

Peter O'Neill, vice-president of global project finance for the Bank of Ireland, said the three European lead arrangers underwrote equal portions of the $600 million.

The Bank of Ireland's experience in light rail transactions has included projects in the U.K., the Netherlands and Spain. All are performing satisfactorily, O'Neill said.

The 2010 winter Olympics were not a significant factor in the bank's evaluations of the RAV financing, said O'Neill.

"We have specifically targeted the Canadian P3 sector following our successful involvement in the European public/private partnership market. The RAV project was attractive because of the strength of the principal sponsors and the commitment shown by government to the project."

O'Neill added that the RAV project is among the Bank of Ireland's first P3 investments in Canada. The bank has no staff in Canada, apart from an asset management office in Montreal, which is separate from the division that is providing the RAV financing.

John Hunter of J. Hunter and Associates, a North Vancouver-based international consultant on P3s, said that European and Asian investors are more familiar with private public partnerships and have more practical experience. They consequently tend to be more willing to enter into P3 projects like the RAV rapid transit line.

"I think it's pretty clear that Canadians are not accustomed to P3s and certain parties have stirred up concerns about P3s which are not valid," Hunter said.

He added that P3s are the best arrangements for building large infrastructure projects like the RAV line because construction and performance risks can be shouldered by the private sector.

"There are some things that the public sector is good at doing, but building things is not one of them," he said. "The carrot and stick system that the public sector has does not work very well to build capital projects."

RAVCO will publish a final project report in early December reviewing the competitive process that led to the selection of the InTransitBC bid.

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Old October 11th, 2005, 12:38 AM   #636
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Detailed Time Line for Vancouver RAV/Canada Line Construction




First train November 30th 2009.
(subject to change)
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Old October 11th, 2005, 04:10 AM   #637
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Have they chosen a vendor for the trains yet?

Many factors pointed to the trains being an evolution of the LIM powered vehicles used for Vancouver Skytrain, which would imply Bombardier as the train vendor; however, I don't recall seeing any confirmation that this was a done deal.
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Old October 11th, 2005, 04:15 AM   #638
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The train looks Bombardier to me.
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Old October 11th, 2005, 04:46 AM   #639
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There's no done deal, all they've said that the line will be "third rail." And that could mean anything from NYC track technology to LIM (SkyTrain).
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Old October 11th, 2005, 08:57 AM   #640
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Did anything start yet as of today???
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