daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 1st, 2005, 10:15 PM   #681
addisonwesley
Registered User
 
addisonwesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,021
Likes (Received): 5

lol, why is there such excitment about this greenline. I understand the red one, but the green one, does it really need so much explaining?
addisonwesley no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 1st, 2005, 11:26 PM   #682
officedweller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,379
Likes (Received): 98

WRT elevated Canada Line - the original proposal back in about 1990 was for an elevated line down Cambie on the median "heritage boulevard". There was a huge outcry, the project was shelved after a change in Provinicial government and the City of Vancouver vowed never to allow an elevated system (citing negative impacts from the Expo Skytrain line). It planted a lot more trees on the boulevard and designated it a heritage site. This is also one of the reasons why the Canada Line is not at-grade. The Canada Line will be buried under the roadway (not under the median, which would destroy trees).

As for the Green Line, the NDP government wanted it to be Skytrain - an extension of the Millennium Line - but a change in Provncial government cancelled the line in about 2002. The Canada Line became the priority. After a lot of political infighting at the GVRD board (board members favouring the Canada Line versus those favouring the Green Line), consensus was reached by agreeing to build both lines simultaneously to both complete in 2009. During this time, the northeast communities on the Green Line were switching back and forth as to whether they wanted Skytrain or LRT - Port Moody had a referendum which came out against Skytrain - and eventually the three municipalities in the northeast agreed to LRT (also more feasible given funding contraints). So the Green Line will be at-grade LRT (with some grade separations), which will require a transfer at Lougheed Station to get downtown, rather than a "one seat" ride.

The Green Line needs explaining because it's the first at-grade LRT in the region and the public doesn't comprehend things very well.

i.e. It has taken Yaletowners a full year to realize where the station entrance will be for the Yaletown Station - and all of a sudden, residents and businesses are up in arms.
__________________
officedweller
officedweller no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 01:20 AM   #683
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

I have to admit that I was disappointed that the Coquitlam Line won't be grade separated like the other Vancouver transit lines, but at least the area that is not grade separated is not on a through line and is well removed from the central core of the system. Service disruptions on the Coquitlam Line due to conflicts with motor vehicle traffic will not impact service in the downtown core.

It seems to me that most new light rail systems are built backwards. Older systems such as Boston and Philadelphia are grade separated in the downtown core and operate on the streets in the outer periphery. By contrast, many newer systems such as San Diego, Portland, Denver, and Calgary are mostly grade separated in the outer periphery and operate on the streets in the downtown core. This is a consequence of the initial downtown segments of the newer systems being built as cheaply as possible.
greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 02:50 AM   #684
j4893k
I'm a Registered User
 
j4893k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC Seattle, WA
Posts: 398
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
It may have the largest system but it will still lag far behind Montreal and Toronto when it comes to actual ridership. Montreal and Toronto have actual heavy rail subway systems, the cream of the crop, Vancouver is still using its light rail.
Lol... I'd take Skytrain technology over your "cream of the crop" anyday.
__________________
Welcome To The Suck
j4893k no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 03:07 AM   #685
Plumber73
I need coffee.
 
Plumber73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,442
Likes (Received): 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by addisonwesley
lol, why is there such excitment about this greenline. I understand the red one, but the green one, does it really need so much explaining?
Who's excited?
Plumber73 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 05:23 AM   #686
DrJoe
Registered Idiot
 
DrJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,671
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by j4893k
Lol... I'd take Skytrain technology over your "cream of the crop" anyday.

Every large city in the world chooses subway, there is a reason for this you know. BTW your Skytrain "technology" was developed by the Government of Ontario for use in Toronto in the first place. Toronto built one line and never went back because Skytrain just can't handle the ridership here. The one line that was actually built is due to be replaced by subway in the near future.
__________________
*
DrJoe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 05:26 AM   #687
CrazyCanuck
MOD SQUAD
 
CrazyCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,718
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayeTheOnly
What the hell? Who is this C|2azyCanuck imposter?
Tell me about it Jaye, the one and only is right here.
CrazyCanuck no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 05:34 AM   #688
j4893k
I'm a Registered User
 
j4893k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC Seattle, WA
Posts: 398
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
Every large city in the world chooses subway, there is a reason for this you know. BTW your Skytrain "technology" was developed by the Government of Ontario for use in Toronto in the first place. Toronto built one line and never went back because Skytrain just can't handle the ridership here. The one line that was actually built is due to be replaced by subway in the near future.
Actually many large cities also choose skytrain technology. The technology also can be modified to accompany larger amounts of passengers and the fact that it was developed by Ontarionians for Ontarionians is irrelevant.
__________________
Welcome To The Suck
j4893k no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 06:01 AM   #689
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by zivan56
Probably because your municipal/provincial goverment does not want to invest in transportation infrastructure. You should consider electing somewho who is more pro-transit/densification. As for your flamebait, I wont bite
Toronto's mayor has been on the TTC Commission prior to becoming mayor and is still on the Commission as mayor. How could he not want to invest in Transportation? Do a tiny bit of research before making absurd presumptions, everybody knows Miller is hard-core pro-TTC and heavily involved. It is probably the most transit-friendly mayor that will ever be found. We get the shaft from the Feds because unlike Quebec and the west, Ontario never threatens separation from Canada, which is where some (not all, but still enough) of your funding for vancouver transit projects comes from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjoeda
Greater Vancouver has the largest transportation authority, Translink serves a larger area then the TTC and pulls in more funding. By 2010 Vancouver will have the largest rapid transit system in Canada. I haven't heard of any plans for anouther rapid transit line in Toronto, I bet Vancouver will have extended the M-line down Broadway befor "Canada's only city" gets another one.
I believe our GO Transit drarfs your Translink in terms of service area and both GO and the TTC dwarf Vancouver area's ridership numbers. Not surprising since GO can't keep up with demand, and the TTC has 90% on Ontario's commuting trips. The fact that Translink's structure and scope of operations would require it to be compared to the GO and TTC combined as one entity, and shows that Translink is actually even smaller.
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 06:25 AM   #690
Plumber73
I need coffee.
 
Plumber73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,442
Likes (Received): 57

Well... neah neah neah neah neah... Common! You've got to be a little happy for us at least.
Plumber73 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 06:42 AM   #691
addisonwesley
Registered User
 
addisonwesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,021
Likes (Received): 5

About as happy as the rest of the country was when Toronto was dealing with SARS - oh wait, that would mean we're overjoyed - nevermind then.
addisonwesley no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 06:49 AM   #692
[email protected]
Philippine Forum Mod
 
queetz@home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ortigas (Pasig City)
Posts: 3,679
Likes (Received): 3027

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randwicked
Nice, how come they didn't elevate the Canada Line all the way to the city like the original SkyTrain? Was it the dreaded NIMBY?
Yes. The Westside creme de la creme don't want to see a train high above their homes, hence why they forced Canada Line to be buried, escalating its costs that the entire population of the GVRD, most who don't even live within the city limits of Vancouver, have to pay dearly for it and yet still get crappy service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j4893k
Actually many large cities also choose skytrain technology. The technology also can be modified to accompany larger amounts of passengers and the fact that it was developed by Ontarionians for Ontarionians is irrelevant.
I'm curious. Exactly how many large cities in the world actually uses "Skytrain" technology?
queetz@home no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 07:04 AM   #693
addisonwesley
Registered User
 
addisonwesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,021
Likes (Received): 5

AHAHAHA - Kuala Lumpur uses so called 'skytrain' technology, that's not the funny part though - they too call it an LRT; looks like only cities with subways call skytrain LRT. These others are only somewhat amusing - New York's JFK uses it to ferry passengers around terminals, and Yong-In, South Korea, is using it to connect Seoul to an amusment park (Everland).

This is of course, according to Bombardier's website, which is actually quite cool. Unless there are some 'unknown' cities around the world, I believe that's all there is.

Last edited by addisonwesley; December 2nd, 2005 at 07:10 AM.
addisonwesley no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 07:08 AM   #694
deej
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: on a plane somewhere
Posts: 208
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
I'm curious. Exactly how many large cities in the world actually uses "Skytrain" technology?
Linear Induction Motor technology is being used at JFK Airport in New York and in Kuala Lumpur. I think there is a system being built in South Korea near Seoul as well.

**EDIT: Sorry AW, didn't see your post... Note: A few of my friends in KL complain that the Skytrain there isn't too well integrated into the transport system -- they prefer to keep to their cars.
deej no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 07:10 AM   #695
addisonwesley
Registered User
 
addisonwesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,021
Likes (Received): 5

Meh, NP, it's all good.
addisonwesley no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 07:16 AM   #696
zivan56
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 471
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ
We get the shaft from the Feds because unlike Quebec and the west, Ontario never threatens separation from Canada, which is where some (not all, but still enough) of your funding for vancouver transit projects comes from.
Thats the funniest thing I have heard.
The west is most likely to get shafted for this sort of stuff, and not Ontario. It has been clearly seen over and over again since confederation.
zivan56 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 07:16 AM   #697
DrJoe
Registered Idiot
 
DrJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,671
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by deej
Linear Induction Motor technology is being used at JFK Airport in New York and in Kuala Lumpur. I think there is a system being built in South Korea near Seoul as well.

**EDIT: Sorry AW, didn't see your post... Note: A few of my friends in KL complain that the Skytrain there isn't too well integrated into the transport system -- they prefer to keep to their cars.

Yes they are used but rarely as the backbone to a system. KL is probably similar to the Toronto situation, it was tacked on as somewhat of a novelty item, proved to be crap and is regarded as a mistake.
__________________
*
DrJoe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 07:17 AM   #698
addisonwesley
Registered User
 
addisonwesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,021
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Thats the funniest thing I have heard.
The west is most likely to get shafted for this sort of stuff, and not Ontario. It has been clearly seen over and over again since confederation.
Where have you been for the past 15 years? Or not enough oxygen up in those mountains?
addisonwesley no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 07:31 AM   #699
zivan56
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 471
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by addisonwesley
Where have you been for the past 15 years? Or not enough oxygen up in those mountains?
I could give you pages upon pages of things to prove you wrong, however, its not worth my time. Please consult something called a "history textbook" so you can see it for yourself. As for anything new in the past 15 years, it doesn't make up for the 119 years in between.
zivan56 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2005, 08:31 AM   #700
Plumber73
I need coffee.
 
Plumber73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,442
Likes (Received): 57

Regarding the funding... I think the feds helped out only after they could see much of the line was payed for - by the province, Airport, city etc.. That's my understanding, but I've been wrong before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addisonwesley
Where have you been for the past 15 years? Or not enough oxygen up in those mountains?
You know Vancouver is almost sea level, yes?
Plumber73 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
british columbia, canada, vancouver

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium