VANCOUVER | Public Transport

[mrtfreak]

Originally Posted by zonie

I think you'd get some fierce opposition from seniors if Translink started taking out seats. There's still room for many more cars on the line, so that might be the easiest thing to do for now. Translink could also buy some C-cars with transverse seating or no seats at all, since it might be better to have more people in the middle of the train, anyway.

Would this not be a more expensive option? I'm sure the cost of producing a car and its associated components by far exceeds the cost of replacing a few seats. With the car, you need wiring and sensors, climate control and all the subsystems for powering. But if the system is in need of a rolling stock upgrade, this may be feasible.

I'm imagining the Sky Train to be a popular mode of transportation in Vancouver. The situation with KL's MKIIs is that although they have transverse seating, with 35 trains of 2 cars on a 29km line, its pretty congested. The KL system would have more standing space for sure, but even so, they're going over capacity.

For Vancouver, transverse seating might be a temporary solution. What about the Canada line? What type of seating would that be? Since the trains are wider, there would be more space for standing. Would they make it easy for passengers with luggage to come on board and keep their luggage is specified areas?

[mr.x]

^ Its certainly a temporary solution, and its worth it if it'll only cost a small fraction of what it would cost to order more trains.

I'd be shocked if they didn't make the Canada Line seats tranverse.

[crazyjoeda]

They should increase frequency.

[mr.x]

^ The thing is most of the rolling stock is already in service.....what's left in the maintenance yard is for back ups in case trains break. There are 210 SkyTrain cars today, and Translink will order an additional 47 Mark II's by 2010.


Interesting. The Mark I cars can be coupled together with the Mark II cars.

[zonie]

Originally Posted by mrtfreak

Would this not be a more expensive option?

Definitely... I think it's about $3 million each. But the seniors are tough customers!

[zonie]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Interesting. The Mark I cars can be coupled together with the Mark II cars.

It already looks bad when they couple Mark I cars with different liveries. Coupling Mark I and Mark II cars together would be quite the sight!

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by zonie

It already looks bad when they couple Mark I cars with different liveries. Coupling Mark I and Mark II cars together would be quite the sight!

[mrtfreak]

Originally Posted by mr.x

^ The thing is most of the rolling stock is already in service.....what's left in the maintenance yard is for back ups in case trains break. There are 210 SkyTrain cars today, and Translink will order an additional 47 Mark II's by 2010.

Is this to replace the MKIs or to increase frequency? Either way, tell them they should order trains with transverse seating.

Originally Posted by Zonie

Definitely... I think it's about $3 million each. But the seniors are tough customers!

true, I'll try see how many seats KL's MKIIs have and maybe it is a comparable amount to the Sky Train's? KL's system has designated seats for the seniors and those with wheelchairs (the seat folds up). Is that the case in Vancouver? Pleased to say, Malaysians in KL do give up their seats to those in need. Nice to see them do that. And not just one person, 4 or 5.

[zivan56]

If they installed those types of seats, I would not take the Skytrain anymore. Nothing is worse than taking a B-Line bus and having to sit in one of those seats facing the person right in front of you (and having a staring contest with them). Not to mention someones ass when the bus is full. Thankfully Translink considers the human element, rather than how much "livestock" can fit in a "cattle car."

[dchengg]

^ well the point of doing that to the seats are to make more space so then more people can fit inside of the trains. when its full i dont think you'll be having a staring contest. and when its not rush hour, you can sit anywhere in the train or you can jus stand

[Overground]

Millions of commuters for decades in Tokyo and London don't seem to have a problem with transverse seating. This is where reading or closing your eyes to catch up on some kip comes in handy. A commuter learning process I'm sure Vancouverites can adapt to. Living in both cities I got used to it quite quickly and after time you take no notice of it. Look at the floor.

[Ed007Toronto]

I am not sure of the reasons that drivers are provided onboard the Toronto trains.

Think unions.

[mrtfreak]

Allow me to counter...

Originally Posted by zivan56

If they installed those types of seats, I would not take the Skytrain anymore. Nothing is worse than taking a B-Line bus and having to sit in one of those seats facing the person right in front of you (and having a staring contest with them). Not to mention someones ass when the bus is full. Thankfully Translink considers the human element, rather than how much "livestock" can fit in a "cattle car."

The Sky Train is a quick means to get around Vancouver. Like it or not, transverse or longitudinal seating, you would take it. It doesn't make sense both from the viewpoint of time and economically to take several buses to get from point A to point B when the reason for doing so, is to avoid a "staring contest".

You seem to have a preconcieved notion of staring at someone's ass when the train/bus is full. Maybe its due to your own experience, but so far, in the metro systems I have used, I have never had that happen. People usually face you or stan sideways.

The metro trains here all have transverse seating ever since they started operation. People do not have a problem with it either. Most usually sleep, or look at other things. Choosing where to look is a decision made by you. Its not as though other commuters would stare back at you either. The mind is the limitation.

It also makes economic sense for the operator. More people in a car, would mean more revenue and when revenue is able to fully cover all costs, profit. In KL, the rail operator of the MKIIs is now extending their line, which will be paid for partly by the profits earned.

[Plumber73]

Originally Posted by zivan56

If they installed those types of seats, I would not take the Skytrain anymore. Nothing is worse than taking a B-Line bus and having to sit in one of those seats facing the person right in front of you (and having a staring contest with them). Not to mention someones ass when the bus is full. Thankfully Translink considers the human element, rather than how much "livestock" can fit in a "cattle car."

Yup, I know what that's like. That's when you need to catch up on some reading, or stare at your crotch. Whatever fits your fancy.

[dchengg]

Originally Posted by zivan56

If they installed those types of seats, I would not take the Skytrain anymore. Nothing is worse than taking a B-Line bus and having to sit in one of those seats facing the person right in front of you (and having a staring contest with them). Not to mention someones ass when the bus is full. Thankfully Translink considers the human element, rather than how much "livestock" can fit in a "cattle car."

well then i beleive you didnt take the skytrain before the year 2001 before the minellium trains were in service because most part of the train was along the wall

[zivan56]

Originally Posted by dchengg

well then i beleive you didnt take the skytrain before the year 2001 before the minellium trains were in service because most part of the train was along the wall

No, MKI cars have 1/2 normal seats and 1/2 of those. I wait for a MKI trains in the mornings due to the fact that I am usually the only person that gets in the very last car. Its also nicer since it has better seats and and more leg room in some cases.
For anybody calling trips "quick" enough to stand for, you have never gone from downtown Vancouver to Surrey every day. Even the sitting is not comfortable due to terrible seats in the MKII's.

[mrtfreak]

Its hard to please everyone. Seems that the MKIs have a good solution then. Mixed seating

KL's MKIIs have the following seat arrangement (from front [driving panel] to the section with the adjoining vestibul):
6 seats on each wall - door - 4 seats each side - door - 4 seats each side - door - 3 seats each side

Doing the maths, that gives (6*2 + 4*2 + 4*2 + 3*2) 32 seats per car.

How many seats do the Sky Train MKIIs have?

[en]

SkyTrain goes high tech in luring tourists with headset walking tours

Bruce Constantineau, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, March 21, 2006

SkyTrain will brand itself as a must-see tourist attraction this spring by launching what's believed to be the world's first automated guided tour of a region that uses headsets on a public transit system, SkyTrain president Doug Kelsey said Monday.

Starting in May, tourists will pay an undetermined fee to rent headsets that can be worn to provide a guided commentary of their SkyTrain journey in six languages -- including English, French, Spanish and German. The new service will be called SkyTour.

So instead of a mind-numbing, half-hour SkyTrain ride from Vancouver to New Westminster, Kelsey said tourists will get a commentary filled with historical and cultural information and snippets like Mount Baker being an active volcano that was the snowiest place on earth in 1999.

"Just think of all the factoids that come out of this region," he said in an interview. "We've never packaged it up like this before."

Global-positioning-system technology will allow headset users to get off the SkyTrain and take guided walking tours of historic areas like New Westminster and Gastown.

"As far as we're aware, it's the first public-transit product of its kind anywhere in the world," Kelsey said. "Nothing can duplicate what we'll offer because we're above the treeline, travel at high speed and cover the entire region."

The SkyTrain system carries about 70 million passengers a year and Kelsey said that during the summer, tourists make up from 16 to 20 per cent of riders. He feels those numbers can be boosted by attracting even more out-of-town riders during non-peak daytime hours when trains are not full.

Details of the new venture -- including the name of the company providing the new technology -- will be announced in May but Kelsey said SkyTrain faces little or no risk in the arrangement because its total upfront cost will be about $30,000. SkyTrain and the company will share revenues generated by the service and the company will handle the international marketing.

Kelsey said SkyTrain will be the first phase of the new tourism product, which can be expanded to other Greater Vancouver transit services and feature other guided walking tours like Stanley Park and Grouse Mountain.

He said SkyTour will only feature interesting parts of the Lower Mainland that give tourists a "wow" impact.

"If there's no 'wow' to what they're seeing, it won't work," Kelsey said. "Tourists want a show, not a transit experience. This will be an entertainment experience."

New Westminster Mayor Wayne Wright said Westminster Quay and the waterfront walk along the Fraser River will be featured in the first year of SkyTour and hopes other parts of the city will be included in the future.

"They'll see the old and the new of New Westminster," Wright said. "They'll see where the salmon runs came and where the big log booms are still going."

Kelsey said he wants to make a SkyTrain ride an "experience" for out-of-town visitors, in the same way that Starbucks made coffee-drinking an experience for its customers.

"I believe you can move transit from being just a ride to being more of an experience that tells the region's story and makes money," he said. " ... If you have visitors, what a great way to drop them off for the day and leave them in a protected environment, to be told the official regional story of Greater Vancouver."

Kelsey feels there's an untapped market of potential customers in tour groups who bring visitors to Vancouver for brief visits, noting he knows of one Asian tour operator that brought 140,000 people to the city last year for just one night.

"They didn't stay here because no one appealed to them with anything like this," Kelsey said.

Stephen Regan, manager of destination development for Tourism Vancouver, said it makes sense for Greater Vancouver transit services to become more tourism-friendly because so many tourists use them, especially in the summer.

"Many of our visitors expect to be able to navigate at least part of the region on public transit," he said. "Our big advantage is that the SkyTrain line and SeaBus are attractions in themselves."

bconstantineau@png.canwest.com

[dchengg]

i have a question,

do they still have that Family Day Program for Sundays and holidays.
It is where if you hold an adult mothly pass, can bring along with you one adult and 4 children with you.

[zonie]

Yes, although they don't advertise it anymore.