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Old February 6th, 2006, 12:29 AM   #821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
MASSEY TUNNEL IMPROVEMENTS
Gateway council advocates $700 million for Highway 99 corridor at Massey Tunnel crossing of Fraser River, a major choke point. Two extra lanes under river and extension of HOV lanes from King George Highway to Westminster Highway are sought.

© The Vancouver Sun 2006
A new tunnel? I never knew anything about this... But it's about time. The tunnel should definately be capable of accomodating skytrain in the future.

They should've listened to Massey in the first place.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 03:15 AM   #822
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If they where going to focus on long term port growth, they really should be looking into turing Prince Rupert into a real port. It's 3 days sailing time closer to Asia than Vancouver (it's actually, the closest deepwater port in NA). What we really need is a system of commuter trains (West Coast Express ish) from Langley, Twassen, WhiteRock. As far as expanding the M line, it'll be awhile. I still can't believe they called it the evergreen line....
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Old February 10th, 2006, 04:05 AM   #823
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I think after the RAV and Evergreen lines are completed, Vancouver should focus on the Millenium Line extension as well as some North Shore link (train to Whistler, rail link under Burrard Inlet, North Shore LRT).
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Old February 18th, 2006, 05:49 AM   #824
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Old February 19th, 2006, 08:06 AM   #825
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Translink has this bizzare habit of building SkyTrain/LRT for suburbanits first. Its the only city I have ever heard of where they build from the suburbs to downtown as opposed to building from downtown outwards.
They are also set up for suburbanites. The M-Line has stations all thru Burnaby but doesn't have one at Nanaimo?????
The RAV won't have a station at 16th which means in the most heavily populated area south of FalseCreek thru Vancouver doesn't have a stop. You either get off at Broadway or KingEdward. That is a rediculous 16 blocks between stations right in the city!
Any other city would think you were joking. This is why for all its money spent on SkyTrain and soon to be RAV, ridership on Translink is still lower on a percapita basis than Tor/Mon/Ott/Cal.
Calgary's CTrain carries the same number of passengers yet serves a city less than half the size on fewer km on a system that has cost one third the price.
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Old February 19th, 2006, 07:08 PM   #826
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"The M-Line has stations all thru Burnaby but doesn't have one at Nanaimo?????" <<< Why Nanaimo? There is a station a couple blocks away at Renfrew.

"The RAV won't have a station at 16th which means in the most heavily populated area south of FalseCreek thru Vancouver doesn't have a stop. You either get off at Broadway or KingEdward. That is a rediculous 16 blocks between stations right in the city!" <<< I thought there was a physical/engineering challenge they couldn't work through. That's why no station at 16th.

"Any other city would think you were joking. This is why for all its money spent on SkyTrain and soon to be RAV, ridership on Translink is still lower on a percapita basis than Tor/Mon/Ott/Cal." I'd like to see where things are at in ten years. Yea, it sucks that it's so expensive, but these are things that will be around for a hundred years.

"Calgary's CTrain carries the same number of passengers yet serves a city less than half the size on fewer km on a system that has cost one third the price." <<< That's great for Calgary.
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Old February 19th, 2006, 07:34 PM   #827
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I dunno Toronto's Spadina Extension is going to cost 1.3 billion dollars and will take way longer to build. Also, I wonder how these ridership numbers are tabulated? They say Skytrain has around 230,000 passengers per weekday, C-Train 200,000 and Portland MAX only 90,000. From what I hear I would expect Portland's LRT to have higher numbers.
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Old February 19th, 2006, 09:38 PM   #828
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hey are there any big infrastructure enhancements coming to vancouver for the olympics? expansion of the skytrain or lrt for example?

i <3 vancouver, favorite in NA
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Old February 20th, 2006, 12:44 AM   #829
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A Nanaimo Station was originally planned for the M-line, then it became a "future" station, then it was eliminated completely, because the Nanaimo station on the Expo Line was thought to be close by on the same bus route. Plus the neighbours didn't want it. Ditto for a proposed station at Beta Ave in Burnaby - where the cluster of highrises is located near Lougheed Mall.

Another factor may also be that the City of Vancouver will not up-zone properties merely because they are close to rapid transit stations. So even if you littered the City of Vancouver with rapid transit routes, there probably won't be significant highrises built near them - except where it won't upset the neighbours (i.e. the conversion of industrial lands to residential like at Main Street or Joyce). None of Broadway/Commercial Station; 29th Ave. Station or Nanaimo Stations in Vancouver on the Expo Line have high densities around them - despite easy access to Skytrain for the past 20 years.

And remember that Translink is funded by regional taxpayers and has a regional mandate. If the City of Vancouver wants to expand transit within it's own boundaries, it is welcome to so so at its own expense. And in fact - it is doing just that with its proposed streetcar lines.

For the Canada Line, 16th Ave. is one of the steepest parts of the route. The only way you'd be able to build a station at 16th Ave. is to do a deep bore tunnel - to level out the steep grades (think of each station platform requiring a long level section of track (not sure how long but expansion room from the 41m starter trains would suggest 80m?), then joining the stations with track that isn't too steep). That means that the King Edward Station would be very very deep and the 33rd Ave. station would be too deep to justify the expense.
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Old February 20th, 2006, 01:59 AM   #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
Translink has this bizzare habit of building SkyTrain/LRT for suburbanits first. Its the only city I have ever heard of where they build from the suburbs to downtown as opposed to building from downtown outwards.
They are also set up for suburbanites. The M-Line has stations all thru Burnaby but doesn't have one at Nanaimo?????
Because a large number of people live in suburbs and work in downtown or vise versa. I commute to Burnaby daily and live near 16th Ave
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
The RAV won't have a station at 16th which means in the most heavily populated area south of FalseCreek thru Vancouver doesn't have a stop. You either get off at Broadway or KingEdward. That is a rediculous 16 blocks between stations right in the city!
Thats not ridiculous, what would be ridiculous would be a train that stops every 10 secs. Besides, its takes less than a 10 min walk or a 2 min bus ride to get to broadway. I walk it every day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
Calgary's CTrain carries the same number of passengers yet serves a city less than half the size on fewer km on a system that has cost one third the price.
You wouldnt happen to be related to Wally would you? Lets built a streetcar that runs up cambie so it can be the cheapest solution. It doesn't matter that it will never run on schedule and nobody will take it, the only thing that matters is that we upset everybody that lives in the area.

Anything that runs at street level will be doomed to fail, as it will always travel at the same speed that the cars around it will. Making a dedicated lane for it is not a solution, as cambie would be shrunk to 1 lane in each direction around 16th - King Edward.
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Old February 20th, 2006, 04:37 AM   #831
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You're going to love the Evergreen line then. It has almost as many stops as the bus route it's replacing, runs at street level and at one point will narrow St Johns to 1 lane each way, turning a 6 lane highway into a 2 lane street. It'll be lovely. I so wished that they will build the skytrain through Port Moody, even if everyone voted against it, it could go over the CPR right of way.....Alas, I don't know how they expect to finish it by '09, if they havn't even decided on the exact route it'g going to take....didn't they already start the RAV line (I am rebelling against stupid names!)
The C-train isn't nearly as nice as the skytrain though. Also, Calagry is fairly level compared to Vancouver, and doesn't have a major river running through it (i know it does have a river, but it's small compared to the Fraser).

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Old February 20th, 2006, 10:01 AM   #832
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Apparantly there will be tunnels so as to not affect traffic in some parts of the evergreen line. Skytrain should have been built, but partisan politics and objection to public transit seem to have prevailed in this part (I guess its expected, since most people that moved here early on wanted to live in the suburbs/drive their cars)
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Old February 21st, 2006, 01:58 AM   #833
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^ Actually, it was the creme de la creme of Vancouver Westside who insisted on RAV to be tunneled so they won't see a "Skytrain" high above their homes is why the Evergreen Line isn't Skytrain (and was also the reason why RAV is not homogeneous to the existing Skytrain cuz a tunneled Skytrain using the existing Linear Induction Motor technology would be too expensive, so costs have to be cut somewhere). The amount of money used to tunnel RAV instead of elevating it can easily be added to the existing budget of the Evergreen LRT for a Skytrain upgrade.

Think about it. An elevated Skytrain for RAV and a Skytrain for the Northeast connected to the existing Skytrain lines...would have been nice, huh? Blame the Westside Vancouver creme de la creme for denying you that!
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Old February 21st, 2006, 03:18 AM   #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
^ Think about it. An elevated Skytrain for RAV and a Skytrain for the Northeast connected to the existing Skytrain lines...would have been nice, huh? Blame the Westside Vancouver creme de la creme for denying you that!
Wally, as almost all of your comments on this subject for the past year seems to involve 'creme', I can only conclude you have a milk or donut fixation of some sort.

Try to get past the emotion for a second. I think most people would agree Cambie is the best north-south route to Richmond, yes? So on Cambie from Broadway up to King Edward Avenue, where would you fit the elevated guideway? From 25th almost to W41st Ave, I believe there likely would be grade issues. So at best, you take it above ground at Oakridge. So then, is your beef with the underground section between Oakridge and 63rd? I seriously doubt the savings there would fund Skytrain for the Northeast.

My recollection could be wrong, but I seem to recall that the Skytrain option to Coquitlam was hosed not only by funding issues, but also because there were quite a few people in the NE against it. Is this right?

Anyway, there's absolutely nothing wrong with LRT for that area. Portland's done a fantastic job with it. Go to many European cities, and you'll see LRT blending very nicely with the cityscape.

Last edited by deej; February 21st, 2006 at 03:28 AM.
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Old February 21st, 2006, 04:38 AM   #835
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^ Oh you can put an elevated guideway pretty much anywhere you want.


And you can build it as tall as you want to compensate for pretty much anything, whether they be waterways, elevated highways, and so on.





Of course, the big question really is whether elevated guideways are acceptable in the Westside of Vancouver. Except for a small section from Science World to Stadium, no elevated guideway of Skytrain exists west of Main Street. All because of the Westside creme de la creme.

With regards to the Northeast, its not a NIMBY problem but rather purely a funding problem (since a large chunk of the NorthEast rapid transit money went to RAV's tunneling). There is the Port Moody referendum but that is non-binding anyway. But you are right. There is nothing wrong with LRT so I guess the NE people are lucky to actually get that rather than get nothing at all if they act childish and wait for Skytrain funding that will never come.
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Old February 21st, 2006, 11:41 PM   #836
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It's not that I'm against LRT's in general, i'd just have prefered Vancouver to stick with one system from one company so we would always have a supplier (remember the fiaso with the Cnd forces awhile back, we had to borrow parts because no one made them anymore?) Now we have 3. The tunnel phase comes out just before the bottleneck alas; it had to do with grades, rather than traffic.

On another note, i've heard several times that the funds have been set aside for the NE line...has it, or is it just a rumour?
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Old February 22nd, 2006, 02:51 PM   #837
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If they couldn't build a station at 16th then what about at 18th? It seems more level there. Having lived in that neighbourhood and still work in it, a station around there would have been great. But I suppose the current plan is better than nothing.

Edit - I just read Officedweller's post above on reasoning why there isn't a station between Broadway and KE.

By the way, I'm in London right now and just got back from using the Tube. I forget just how fantastic of a system it is. Well the Northern Line could use an improvement and it sure has gone up in price for a single ticket. £3 now! Love it though.

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Old February 23rd, 2006, 05:38 AM   #838
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^ exactly.

Is this suppose to be a true rapid transit line or just a commuter rail?
You don't get high ridership by not serving the city its going thru.
This is why Tor/Mon subway/metro have such high ridership. Frequent stops in the city itself to serve the urban dwellers not just the suburbanites.
The most heavily part of the line doesn't have a station........bizzare as is only one stop at Davie/Yaletown and the next not til Robson. In other words it is, except for people in Yaletown, completly useless to downtown Vancouverites.
This is why Vancouver conmtinually gets relativly little ridership for the massive amounts spent.
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Old February 23rd, 2006, 07:39 PM   #839
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"Is this suppose to be a true rapid transit line or just a commuter rail? You don't get high ridership by not serving the city its going thru. This is why Tor/Mon subway/metro have such high ridership. This is why Vancouver conmtinually gets relativly little ridership for the massive amounts spent."



Well, to be fair, Vancouver has no choice but to have a hybrid system, with a slant towards commuter transit, because the population base and style of built form dictates it.

You could argue whether you coax the kind of development that sustains inner-city mass transit by building it first, and the development will follow, or the other way around (the truth is it's a little of both).

Outside of the small downtown penninsula, the city and suburbs are not built to support all day long mass transit ridership, either through close proximity customers, or feeder routes.

The downtown penninsula itself is compact enough to require nothing more than a simple, efficient ROW LRT system to get "around" the downtown. Getting to and from it requires more of a commuter style system, as it covers a large, but relatively low density area.

It's never going to be a Toronto, as the TTC subways have a huge population within walking distance of it's stations, and huge feeder routes serving them.






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Old March 7th, 2006, 08:39 AM   #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewcs
It's not that I'm against LRT's in general, i'd just have prefered Vancouver to stick with one system from one company so we would always have a supplier (remember the fiaso with the Cnd forces awhile back, we had to borrow parts because no one made them anymore?) Now we have 3. The tunnel phase comes out just before the bottleneck alas; it had to do with grades, rather than traffic.
Why make ourselves vulernable by being hostage to Bombardier's tactics?
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