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Old July 25th, 2006, 09:58 PM   #1301
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In terms of individuals making personal decisions about their behaviour - it'll have to hit them in the pocketbook - and that won't be based on a societal cost-benefit analysis, but rather, an individual / household analysis.

With the longer commuter lines, Translink already expressed a concern that the Evergreen Line could take ridership from the WCE, so I'll bet there already is interplay between these modes for priority (behind the scenes).
Apart from bridging to Abbotsford from Mission, a commuter line south of the Fraser would have to use the New Westminster rail bridge - which is the bigger bottleneck around, and then those tracks run to the False Creek Flats - and cross Venables at-grade to access the CP Station @ Waterfront (I doubt a terminus at the Main Street VIA Station would work). If they fix that bridge (increase capacity) that would also help Amtrak Cascades. The bridge fix is on the radar, has been studied (including tunnels), but is a long way off.

Agreed on Vancouver and Burnaby being afraid of losing their dominance of the region. (Yet Vancouver isn't densifying at rapid transit nodes).
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Old July 26th, 2006, 01:39 AM   #1302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller
Agreed on Vancouver and Burnaby being afraid of losing their dominance of the region. (Yet Vancouver isn't densifying at rapid transit nodes).
Yes, that lack of real density is something that stands out. It makes a mockery of the City's complaint that Surrey and Langley are being faithless towards the LRSP.

Hopefully the BC Govt will pressure the City into doing something about this, all along Cambie Street and the Canada Line for example, as well as revisiting the situation for Expo and Millenium line stations. And if pressure doesn't work, there's always the Mike Harris remedy of region wide amalgamation, coupled with changes to the governing statutes, the City Charter Act and the Municipal Act, that would basically mandate certain actions, both with regards to traffic planning and density and zoning issues.
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Old July 26th, 2006, 03:11 AM   #1303
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Hopefully the BC Govt will pressure the City into doing something about this, all along Cambie Street and the Canada Line for example, as well as revisiting the situation for Expo and Millenium line stations.
You're joking, right. The current provincial government!

Stations in Vancouver which should have greater accompanying density are Nanaimo, 29th Ave, Renfrew, Rupert and VCC. Joyce, Main and Stadium have had density increases (to be fair) and resultant transit ridership increases.

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And if pressure doesn't work, there's always the Mike Harris remedy of region wide amalgamation, coupled with changes to the governing statutes, the City Charter Act and the Municipal Act, that would basically mandate certain actions, both with regards to traffic planning and density and zoning issues.
Perhaps, if it were done geographically similarly to what Harris did for Toronto. Outlying cities, Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughn Richmond Hill, and Markham were not included in the new city. North York, which was included in Toronto would never have agreed to densify around the freeway and new Sheppard Subway line as a separate city and densification would not have occurred if the outlying cities were included politically in planning decisions. I suspect the same of Surrey/Langley. A GVRD morphed into a mega-city would dilute good planning choices which could accrue if New West, Burnaby and Vancouver were rather amalgamated, or Langley, Surrey and White Rock and East Richmond (east if highway 99) were a regional city.

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If they fix that bridge (increase capacity) that would also help Amtrak Cascades. The bridge fix is on the radar, has been studied (including tunnels), but is a long way off.
It is a shame that the New West Bridge weren't replaced farther upstream. This would remove a major contraint to twinning the Patullo Bridge. If a truck/rail bridge were built to connect to the CP line which heads north through Port Coquitlam and west to Coquitlam and Vancouver, commuter rail could work well. A highway tunnel has been looked at between Cariboo interchange and 10th and McBride. If this were continued to the Patullo twin bridge, New West streets wouldn't be so plugged with traffic, tolling would be better justified, and a better and safer freeway network would result.

One wonders if a Patullo twin connecting with the #1 freeway with an accompanying a Lougheed (Coquitlam) / Surrey Port Mann rail/truck and north/south only bridge not connecting to the #1 freeway would be better than what is now proposed.
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Old July 26th, 2006, 08:49 AM   #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splashflash
Stations in Vancouver which should have greater accompanying density are Nanaimo, 29th Ave, Renfrew, Rupert and VCC. Joyce, Main and Stadium have had density increases (to be fair) and resultant transit ridership increases.
I tend to agree, although perhaps Nanaimo and 29th Avenue should stay at low rise levels since they are more clearly suburban in character. The one the is really out of place is Broadway/Commercial, where there should be at least some ten or twelve storey buildings allowed for several blocks around.

For the Cambie Street route, I would think that two or three blocks either side of Cambie, from False Creek to the Fraser River, should be zoned for apartment or mixed commercial apartment buildings of a seven or eight storey height, about 80 feet or so, in other words, not higher than some mature trees. Apartment only buildings should maintain the current landscape setbacks that give Vancouver steets their more residential look, something that was lost in the Yaletown push.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splashflash
A GVRD morphed into a mega-city would dilute good planning choices which could accrue if New West, Burnaby and Vancouver were rather amalgamated, or Langley, Surrey and White Rock and East Richmond (east if highway 99) were a regional city.
I really think the only way to get any common sense into the situation is to force the city people to accept input from the suburbanites, who aren't going to look at every block and polling station in Vancouver proper as some special, unique bit of God's half acre. It's that kind of idiotic parochialism that is paralyzing the situation, and the only way to break it up is to get the Surrey non-conformists into the room to holler "Bullshit" every time Larry Beasley or Gordon Price is invited to make some homily laden address, all of which start with the ritual genuflection to the 1960s and 1970s anti-freeway battles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splashflash
It is a shame that the New West Bridge weren't replaced farther upstream. This would remove a major contraint to twinning the Patullo Bridge. If a truck/rail bridge were built to connect to the CP line which heads north through Port Coquitlam and west to Coquitlam and Vancouver, commuter rail could work well.
There is no doubt in my mind that we need more GO-type, or West Coast Express type services, and as in Ontario, we need to start running them 18 hours a day, not just 4 hours a day in two separated bursts. Undoubtedly, the powerful Govt of Ontario has a helluva lot easier time making a few friendly phone calls to Ottawa asking the Feds to put some pressure on the railroad companies to be cooperative. How BC can get that kind of cooperation I really don't know. Up to a few months ago I would have said we all just have to get down on all fours and vote Liberal, but it looks like that remedy is now well past its best before date.

I think we need a train running southwest to Abbotsford and Chilliwack along the CN lines and another train running south to Richmond, Delta and White Rock along the Arbutus line and then other tracks as needed. I understand that either of these projects could require expensive tunnelling either at New Westminster or more capacity at Deas Island, but Deas Island is supposed to be upgraded in any event, although not right away.

The other thing we need to do, which I don't believe Ontario has done, at least not from the schedules I have seen, is to get these trains running at better overall speeds. IOWs, the WCExpress should be making Mission in 50 to 55 minutes, not 75 minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splashflash
A highway tunnel has been looked at between Cariboo interchange and 10th and McBride. If this were continued to the Patullo twin bridge, New West streets wouldn't be so plugged with traffic, tolling would be better justified, and a better and safer freeway network would result.
Never heard of this one. I suppose we can take it for granted that the Burnaby Council would be vehemently opposed to any such freeway project on their territory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splashflash
One wonders if a Patullo twin connecting with the #1 freeway with an accompanying a Lougheed (Coquitlam) / Surrey Port Mann rail/truck and north/south only bridge not connecting to the #1 freeway would be better than what is now proposed.
I am not sure what you're proposing here, but bridging the main arm of the Fraser is not a cheap proposition. The Golden Ears Crossing is now $800 million, athough admittedly that includes major roadwork as well. If there's going to be a second Port Mann, I figure that will be it for one decade, unless it's a railroad bridge or tunnell funded by the railways.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 10:55 AM   #1305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splashflash
Stations in Vancouver which should have greater accompanying density are Nanaimo, 29th Ave, Renfrew, Rupert and VCC. Joyce, Main and Stadium have had density increases (to be fair) and resultant transit ridership increases.
Renfrew, Rupert and VCC are supposed to be high tech office nodes. This is in part meant to preserve jobs on former industrial lands (compared to say, the rezoning at Joyce). Joyce and Main were only densified because it removed ugly industrial and replaced it with "pretty" residential. Stadium is close to the core, and really figures into the Expo Lands, so there's more than just transit at work there. The ones that stick out in Vancouver are Broadway Commercial (compare to Yonge-Eglinton in TO), Nanaimo and 29th Ave.. (at least townhouses or midrises would help).

Quote:
Originally Posted by splashflash
It is a shame that the New West Bridge weren't replaced farther upstream. This would remove a major contraint to twinning the Patullo Bridge. If a truck/rail bridge were built to connect to the CP line which heads north through Port Coquitlam and west to Coquitlam and Vancouver, commuter rail could work well. A highway tunnel has been looked at between Cariboo interchange and 10th and McBride. If this were continued to the Patullo twin bridge, New West streets wouldn't be so plugged with traffic, tolling would be better justified, and a better and safer freeway network would result.

One wonders if a Patullo twin connecting with the #1 freeway with an accompanying a Lougheed (Coquitlam) / Surrey Port Mann rail/truck and north/south only bridge not connecting to the #1 freeway would be better than what is now proposed.
I agree that reducing the distance between alternate bridges would do a lot for connectivity (i.e. between Patullo and Port Mann). And esp. if a lot of the trips over the Port Mann are local (PoCo / Coquitlam to Surrey), a local bridge would do a lot to help traffic in the area and pose less of a threat to Vancouver and Burnaby. Having everyone take one route (Hwy 1) seems inefficient to me.

The Cariboo Connector is called the Stormont Connector - I think it is a surface arterial road.

There was an article in Wednesday's Sun about WCE wanting to expand to have more trips (possibly midday as well), but Federal legislation apparently does not establish an adequate dispute resolution mechanism if they can't strioke a deal with CP.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 11:42 PM   #1306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller
The Cariboo Connector is called the Stormont Connector - I think it is a surface arterial road.
During the month of May 1979, when we had simultaneous federal and provincial general elections, I did the rounds of various party campaign offices around the Greater Vancouver area. At one point, I dropped into the Social Credit offices in Delta. The incumbent MLA Walter Davidson happened to be there at the time, and I spoke to him for a few minutes about the Annacis Island Bridge, a project which he had sort of made the centrepiece of his own local re-election campaign.

He told me that building that bridge and connecting it to the rest of the Lower Mainland's highway and freeway system would include, among other things, "building the Stormont Interchange" on the Trans Canada Highway. He did not use the term "Stormont Connector", but that may have been implied.

I find it hard sometimes to understand where all these seemingly specific sounding projects are being referenced from, since to find anything in the public domain is very nearly impossible. Try to find anything on the North Fraser Freeway, to pick one example, or a bridge from Deep Cove to Belcarra.
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Old July 28th, 2006, 04:09 AM   #1307
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I just googled "stormont connector" and came up with this hit (from 1998):

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications...troduction.htm

Scroll to the bottom and click on Level Three.

It has been in the news as recently as July 2004.

http://www.burnabynow.com/issues04/0...074104nn7.html
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Old July 29th, 2006, 11:32 AM   #1308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller
I just googled "stormont connector" and came up with this hit (from 1998):

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications...troduction.htm

Scroll to the bottom and click on Level Three.

It has been in the news as recently as July 2004.

http://www.burnabynow.com/issues04/0...074104nn7.html
that second article shows how cities think so selfishly instead of regionally
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Old July 31st, 2006, 09:14 PM   #1309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongeg
that second article shows how cities think so selfishly instead of regionally

Certainly if you were creating an entirely new city somewhere you wouldn't carve it up into several different municipalities. That would be inefficient and irrational. But in Greater Vancouver, and many other metro areas, the accumulation of past decisions amounts, for now and in the future, a division of one large community into various competing fiefdoms.

Thanks for the links, Officedweller, they were very informative. And given their stance against Port Mann and Hwy 1, it's surprising to see Burnaby Councillors proding New West Council into keeping the option open for highways enhancements. That's the exact opposite of what I would have expected. However, it did not appear from a very quick browing of the MOT links that any of these proposed connectors would be actual freeway connections between 91 and 1, they would be arterials with intersections.
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Old July 31st, 2006, 10:00 PM   #1310
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That's right, as far as I know, they are just arterials.
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Old August 9th, 2006, 03:36 AM   #1311
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New pics at the Canada Line site:

http://www.canadaline.ca/galleryFront.asp?GalleryID=0

Launching Girder @ Bridgeport Station area:





Pic into the bored tunnel with concrete tunnel liner segments being placed:



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Old August 9th, 2006, 12:03 PM   #1312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelser
Certainly if you were creating an entirely new city somewhere you wouldn't carve it up into several different municipalities. That would be inefficient and irrational. But in Greater Vancouver, and many other metro areas, the accumulation of past decisions amounts, for now and in the future, a division of one large community into various competing fiefdoms.

Thanks for the links, Officedweller, they were very informative. And given their stance against Port Mann and Hwy 1, it's surprising to see Burnaby Councillors proding New West Council into keeping the option open for highways enhancements. That's the exact opposite of what I would have expected. However, it did not appear from a very quick browing of the MOT links that any of these proposed connectors would be actual freeway connections between 91 and 1, they would be arterials with intersections.
yeah i get that - it seems outsiders don't seem to ge the issues that go on in the GVRD...

one more crossing would be great though - there are no crossings from burnaby to richmond at all - you must go via vancouver or new west and with all the growth that burnaby is doing and planning on it really needs to open up one of its own fraser river crossings
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Old August 9th, 2006, 05:46 PM   #1313
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300m of original Skytrain rails north of Broadway station (both eastbound & westbound) will be replaced over the next two weekends.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 03:25 AM   #1314
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Originally Posted by zonie
original Skytrain rails
As though the network's been around long enough to have gone through a series of replacements . . . . unless the rails were counterfeit from the outset!

Cheers,
Chris
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Old August 14th, 2006, 03:01 AM   #1315
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the millenium line won't be going downtown during the two weeks and they say expect 15 minute delays for the two weeks of work

found two other news stories:


SkyTrain service will be slower than usual over the next two weekends while a section of track is replaced.

TransLink is urging passengers to expect delays of around 15 minutes when travelling on Aug. 12-13 and Aug. 19-20.

The work is happening on a sharp curve just north of Broadway station.

More than 8 million SkyTrain cars have rolled over that section and it’s time to replace it, officials say.

While work is under way, trains will run on a single track between Nanaimo and Main Street stations. They’ll be less frequent, TransLink says, but longer trains will be put on to ensure adequate capacity.

Millennium Line trains won’t go downtown – passengers will have to transfer to Expo trains.

PNE buses


Meanwhile, TransLink officials are urging fairgoers heading to the Pacific National Exhibition take transit and avoid the headaches of traffic, parking and high gas prices.

The fair runs Aug. 19 to Sept. 4.

Special PNE buses will leave every 15 minutes from SkyTrain’s 29th Avenue station on the Expo line and Renfrew station on the Millennium Line, and every half hour from Phibbs Exchange in North Vancouver.

Other regular bus routes to the PNE include #10, #16, #135 and #4.

http://www.tricitynews.com/portals-c...d=706238&more=


There’s not much more that can be done to keep blind passengers from falling on to SkyTrain tracks without spending tens of millions of dollars, a TransLink spokesman says.

Drew Snider was speaking after an accident Monday at Vancouver’s 29th Avenue Station, where a visually impaired rider was injured after making a wrong turn and falling in front of a moving train.

“He teetered at the brink and went in just as the other train was arriving,” said Snider, describing video images captured by TransLink cameras.

He said installing clear barriers that would run the length of each platform, allowing passengers to only walk where SkyTrain doors open, would be tremendously expensive.

“It’s measured in the millions of dollars per station,” he said. “It was a decision of TransLink a few years ago the money would be better spent on other areas of safety.”

Part of the challenge is the fact different-sized SkyTrain cars and different lengths of trains mean the doors don’t open in consistent spots.

Blind patrons have fallen on the tracks before but only three have actually been hit by a moving train, Snider said.

“It’s been a relative handful when you consider we’re pushing up around a billion rides now on SkyTrain,” he said.

He said TransLink installed yellow tactile strips near the edge of each platform in 2004 at a cost of $5 million after consulting with advocates for the visually impaired. The tactile strips help blind passengers with canes determine when they’re within half a metre of the edge, he said.

A new strategy on accessible transit is coming to TransLink’s board in the fall, he said; that will roll out more initiatives, not just for the physically disabled but also for passengers with language challenges – such as tourists and new immigrants.

http://www.tricitynews.com/portals-c...d=701686&more=
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Old August 14th, 2006, 05:17 AM   #1316
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speaking of stupid skytrain track maintence!

I went to the station Half an hour before my job interview, and i was at broadways tation, i ahd to wait for the third train inorder to be able to get to downtown,and that was 15 minutes! well.. i may sound like making a big deal of it, because its my first job interview, and my very first job~~ im only 14 xDD i was a bit late, but luckily i called in earlier~

Why did they have to do this on a summer weekend afternoon?? cant they do that during midnight or in the evening where theres not as much people? this almost screwed me up because it usually takes a 2 minute wait, but turned out to be 15minutes~
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Old August 17th, 2006, 08:16 AM   #1317
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no matter what time of day they do it - one section of the track is closed because its being replaced - trains can;t ride when there is no track somewhere
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Old August 19th, 2006, 06:38 PM   #1318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchengg
Why did they have to do this on a summer weekend afternoon?? cant they do that during midnight or in the evening where theres not as much people? this almost screwed me up because it usually takes a 2 minute wait, but turned out to be 15minutes~
From the notice I saw, it says they work on this around-the-clock for the entirety of the two weekends, from Friday evening to Monday morning.

Hope the job interview went well!
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 03:00 AM   #1319
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On saturday night, i took the skytrain, and i didnt feel safe, and wondered what the skytrain police are for. there were like "unneccessary" people hanging around the trains..
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 03:45 AM   #1320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchengg
On saturday night, i took the skytrain, and i didnt feel safe, and wondered what the skytrain police are for. there were like "unneccessary" people hanging around the trains..
It's the weekend, especially on a Saturday night. They're off work.
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