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Old April 14th, 2007, 02:35 AM   #1581
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RAV (Richmond, Airport, Vancouver) line made a lot more sence.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 02:35 AM   #1582
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I still call it RAV Line and encourage others to do the same. For $400 million, which is not even half the cost, they seem like a minor investor...and should have no say in what it's called. Besides, they aren't the ones that have to live with the name...
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Old April 14th, 2007, 02:44 AM   #1583
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I'd say the Olympic Line. We built our first SkyTrain Line in time for the 1986 World's Fair, thus it was called the Expo Line. Then we built our second line for and named it after the new Millennium. Why not Olympic Line when we're hosting one of the world's largest sporting events?
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Old April 14th, 2007, 02:53 AM   #1584
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old April 14th, 2007, 03:16 AM   #1585
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THESE HAVE ALSO BEEN ADDED IN THE FIRST PAGE TOPICS.




The same train being used on another automated rapid transit rail line in South Korea.




Canada Line tunnel boring machine, "Sweet Leilani"





Station travel times map
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old April 14th, 2007, 07:32 AM   #1586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
I'd say the Olympic Line. We built our first SkyTrain Line in time for the 1986 World's Fair, thus it was called the Expo Line. Then we built our second line for and named it after the new Millennium. Why not Olympic Line when we're hosting one of the world's largest sporting events?
Because it is not an olympic project, if it were to be called Olympic Line, Vanoc would probably sue Translink, Intransit and anybody associated with the project by six degrees.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 07:45 AM   #1587
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I think now that we will have three lines, they should be numbered and color coded just like any other metro system. Expo Line = Line 1, blue, Millenium Line = Line 2, yellow, Canada Line = Line 3, red.
But I do agree that since they are being given names, Olympic Line would be more appropriate since it's marking a significant event, just like the Expo Fair and the turning of the Millenium.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 07:54 AM   #1588
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The problem with that is if you built a new line during a time without any significant event, then you're screwed.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 09:20 AM   #1589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta-bc View Post
Because it is not an olympic project, if it were to be called Olympic Line, Vanoc would probably sue Translink, Intransit and anybody associated with the project by six degrees.
Of course not.

Grouse Mountain asked VANOC to apply for permission from the IOC to name its newest lift the "Olympic Express". The "Olympic Village Station" also got permission from the IOC. In China, one of their new subways is called the "Olympic Line".

The IOC would've given the green light for us as well.



Quote:
The problem with that is if you built a new line during a time without any significant event, then you're screwed.
There are plenty of other names. Terry Fox Line (would've been great for NES), Pacific Line, etc.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old April 14th, 2007, 11:23 AM   #1590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
There are plenty of other names. Terry Fox Line (would've been great for NES), Pacific Line, etc.
My point exactly. No need to stick strictly with tributes to big events like Expo or the Olympics.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 11:28 AM   #1591
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hehe..
stupid names
not just hte name "olympic" but also other words that RELATES to it..
how cruel eh..?
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Old April 14th, 2007, 12:43 PM   #1592
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But what of the 40m platforms? Mr. X, you seem to be in the know. Any idea? Seems sort sighted to build such short platforms on an underground line, considering the trains are supposed to be of approximately the same length off the bat. I realize that Vancouver tends to go with the strategy of short trains/high frequency, but it seems disappointingly limited. Any ideas on the matter?
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Old April 14th, 2007, 09:03 PM   #1593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natron4050 View Post
But what of the 40m platforms? Mr. X, you seem to be in the know. Any idea? Seems sort sighted to build such short platforms on an underground line, considering the trains are supposed to be of approximately the same length off the bat. I realize that Vancouver tends to go with the strategy of short trains/high frequency, but it seems disappointingly limited. Any ideas on the matter?
Well, I learned this from other forumers....the Canada Line was originally planned to be tunnel bored for the entire Vancouver stretch. When SNC-Lavalin submitted their bid, they proposed to build most of the Vancouver tunnel by cut & cover since it would be cheaper (since construction materials and labour costs are skyrocketing right now due to Chinese and heavy local demand) and there would be less risk of the project opening late behind schedule. Right now, the project is $400 million overbudget - but any construction overrun is the responsibility of the private contractor, SNC-Lavalin. The deadline to open the line for revenue service is November 29, 2009 and that's just a little over 2 months until the 2010 Winter Olympics on February 12.

Because they are now digging shallower, because of cut & cover, and since this isn't flat land the slope rises quite significantly (500 feet over 6 kms i think), short-platforms would have to be built. If longer platforms were built, cut & cover tunnel trenches would have to be deeper or tunnel boring would have to be required. Therefore, we have 40/50 metre station platforms. The existing two SkyTrain lines, the Expo and the Millennium, both have 80 metre platforms and are expandable to 100 metres.

Some are saying when the Canada Line is at overcapacity, we could either dig up the line, dig deeper and build longer platforms. But note that means expensive massive tunnel fans would also have to be relocated and built as they are located at the portals of each station. OR we could build another north-south LRT line on a rail corridor, Arbutus corridor, that is located about 2 kms west of the Canada Line. Right now, that corridor has streetcar plans. But before, it was considered for the Canada Line route.

I honestly doubt the Canada Line would meet the demands of this region by 2025. The projected ridership in 2010 after it opens is 100,000 daily and about 145,000 in 2020. The current population of the GVRD is 2.2 million, but will be 3 million by 2020. Downtown Vancouver, the northern terminus of the Canada Line, is expected to reach a population of 150,000 by 2020 from 100,000 today and Richmond City Centre has a current population of 50,000 but is expected to grow to 150,000 by 2030. Already, we are seeing densification and many condo tower projects along the line, particularly in Richmond. Not to mention the airport is suppose to see some significant growth: currently employing 30,000 and set to employ 45,000 by 2020 with further terminal expansion from 17 million passsengers today to 25 million or more by 2020. But we can only wait and see what actually happens.....
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."

Last edited by mr.x; April 14th, 2007 at 09:09 PM.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 11:16 PM   #1594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
Because they are now digging shallower, because of cut & cover, and since this isn't flat land the slope rises quite significantly (500 feet over 6 kms i think), short-platforms would have to be built. If longer platforms were built, cut & cover tunnel trenches would have to be deeper or tunnel boring would have to be required. Therefore, we have 40/50 metre station platforms. The existing two SkyTrain lines, the Expo and the Millennium, both have 80 metre platforms and are expandable to 100 metres.
Yup - that's my take on it too.

The only thing I might add is that the specifications in the Request for Proposals did not specify a particular platform length, nor require the ability to expand the platforms. The RFP specified an ultimate capacity of 15,000 ppdph, and left it up to the proposer to devise a system that meets that requirement - the InTransitBC bid meets that capacity requirement.

In addition, if the tunnel was bored the stations would be deeper and more expensive too. Plus, the cut and cover allows them to work at different sections of the line simultaneously - allowing them to meet the tight schedule without buying more than one boring machine.
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Old April 15th, 2007, 04:21 AM   #1595
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I think the 3P factor has a lot to do with the decision to build short platforms. CLCO (Translink) sets the design requirements and then InTransitBC, a fully private company, designs and builds the line according to those requirements. Since InTransitBC is fully responsible for any cost overruns, it is understandable that they will try to cut corners as much as they can without going below the requirements set by CLCO. InTransitBC doesn't care if the platforms are too short in 20 years, because they have met the minimum requirements. They are responsible for the smooth operation of the line for 35 years and are paid accordingly, but if overcrowding becomes a problem, InTransitBC can just point back to the original requirements.

I also wonder if CLCO lowballed the ridership estimate, knowing that it would be cheaper to build and more likely for the whole project to get approved.
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Old April 15th, 2007, 04:54 AM   #1596
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If anything, the ridership estimate would have been low in response to cries from opponents that the the predicted ridership would not materialize (i.e. in case the ridership is lower than predicted it wouldn't be as much of an embarassment).
There are, however, extensive ridership studies by a third party consultant posted at the Canada Line website - the reading of which makes your head spin.

******

I suspect that if InTransitBC hadn't adopted the design it did, we wouldn't have gotten a bid remotely close to the funding envelope. Apparently Bombardier's bid was substantially higher (maybe longer platforms due to narrower Skytrain cars?) and included less tunnel and an undesirable open trench on south Cambie. As it is, the project scope has to be massaged to lower the cost and InTransitBC accepted more funding responsibility (it found more financial backing).
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Old April 15th, 2007, 06:01 AM   #1597
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Quote:
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If anything, the ridership estimate would have been low in response to cries from opponents that the the predicted ridership would not materialize (i.e. in case the ridership is lower than predicted it wouldn't be as much of an embarassment).
This is an after the fact scenario. I don't think Translink is worried too much about that because the line would be built and there isn't much one can do about it then. The ridership will always eventually meet and exceed the predictions.
I think it all boils down to money (as it often does) and Translink's insistence to push this project through.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm loving this project, I follow it very closely and I can't wait to ride on it.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 12:18 AM   #1598
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I'm my opinion the bid process was deeply flawed and it put the rights of the non-Bombardier companies ahead of the public. Bombardier was explicitly forbidden from incorporating cost savings in its bid that would flow from integration with the existing SkyTrain network. They could not factor in the benefits of simplified supply, operations, and repair infrastructure, nor the potential to increase capacity by diverting cars from the Expo/Millennium Lines. In other words, they were prohibited from presenting the true value of the Bombardier bid. It is madness.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #1599
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why does the TBM look like its coming out into a flooded pit when it did the breakthru into downtown station? IM actually curious,i have no real clue how TBMs work other than a giant rotating cutting face
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Old April 16th, 2007, 01:29 AM   #1600
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The white liquid is some sort of lubricant that helps keep control the temperature of the cutting face and also suspends the bored material so that it can be pumped out of the tunnel. Someone with some technical knowledge may know the name of the liquid and some additional properties.
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