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Old August 24th, 2007, 05:20 AM   #1761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta-bc View Post
It's amazing how one short single track section can affect the train frequency of the whole system. If they would have made the Richmond terminus doubled tracked and leave the airport they way it is, then increasing the frequency on the Richmond spur would have benefited the whole line.

However, they could eventually run every fourth train just to Bridgeport and have it turn back to Vancouver. This would increase frequency on the main trunk portion of the line and would help with the movement of commuters from the suburbs. Not sure how complicated logistically that would be, but with an automated system, this should be feasable.
Well the line's capacity should be fine for 15-20 years, though it could get quite crowded at some stations even when it opens in 2009: Waterfront, City Centre, Bridgeport, and Brighouse-Richmond City Centre.

Also, don't forget that you will have empty trains coming into Vancouver from YVR.

Speaking of Bridgeport Station, I don't get why it's not a 50-metre platform from the get go since it'll be a major suburban bus interchange station.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 05:37 AM   #1762
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Also, don't forget that you will have empty trains coming into Vancouver from YVR.
It will be interesting to see how well used the Airport spur will be. Right now a bus runs every 7-8 mins during the day and sometimes it's dead empty.
But it could be a case of "if you build it, they will come" and the airport spur may turn out to be pretty busy. Airplane passengers might opt to take the train instead of the Airporter or a cab, workers may decide to leave their cars at home. Plus, keep in mind, only every third train will service that spur.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 06:59 AM   #1763
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But according to what I read somewhere, the single tracked section will be 650 meters at the airport...

But an idea I have in mind is to have trains at the RCC Station run into the tail track section and then waiting for the next train to arrive and depart before departing itself. But I don't think that will improve frequencies, it would also be complicated and confusing, result in varying frequencies.

I hate the idea of single tracking, it's even worse than short platforms...

I hope their finalized design will eliminate the single tracking, but I doubt it...
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:23 AM   #1764
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But according to what I read somewhere, the single tracked section will be 650 meters at the airport...

But an idea I have in mind is to have trains at the RCC Station run into the tail track section and then waiting for the next train to arrive and depart before departing itself. But I don't think that will improve frequencies, it would also be complicated and confusing, result in varying frequencies.

I hate the idea of single tracking, it's even worse than short platforms...

I hope their finalized design will eliminate the single tracking, but I doubt it...
Is there actually going to be a tail track section at Richmond Centre station?
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:25 AM   #1765
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a small 44m one
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:26 AM   #1766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta-bc View Post
It will be interesting to see how well used the Airport spur will be. Right now a bus runs every 7-8 mins during the day and sometimes it's dead empty.
But it could be a case of "if you build it, they will come" and the airport spur may turn out to be pretty busy. Airplane passengers might opt to take the train instead of the Airporter or a cab, workers may decide to leave their cars at home. Plus, keep in mind, only every third train will service that spur.

Every third train? It's every second train. The first train from Waterfront goes to Richmond City Centre and the second train goes to YVR. And they alternate.

I doubt very much the airport spur line will be that busy. But there will be a train going to YVR every 6-7 minutes during most of the day including peak hours, 12 minutes early morning, and every 20 minutes late night. Richmond will also have the same frequencies. Don't forget that the YVR spur line also doubles as the airport's people mover and it's free to travel within the YVR spur line and for airport employees. Even though the Canada Line also acts as the airport's people mover, the authority also announced some sort of future people mover/monorail for the airport.....I'm not sure how that would work.



Quote:
But an idea I have in mind is to have trains at the RCC Station run into the tail track section and then waiting for the next train to arrive and depart before departing itself. But I don't think that will improve frequencies, it would also be complicated and confusing, result in varying frequencies.
I don't think that helps frequency or capacity at all.





Quote:
I hope their finalized design will eliminate the single tracking, but I doubt it...
That won't happen, they've completed the YVR guideway structure months ago which includes the single-tracked segment and construction on the Richmond single-track guideway foundations have begun where single-tracking starts south of Lansdowne Station.

I think you're right about the 650 metre single-tracked segments. That sounds quite familiar.

One thing I'd like to note is that there are stations at YVR and Richmond right before single-tracking start. These are Lansdowne Station and the future YVR-3 Airport Station, which will be part of the future international terminal expansion.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:30 AM   #1767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada_Line View Post
a small 44m one
I read somewhere that the Richmond terminus, meaning Brighouse-RCC and south of it, is designed in a way that will not prohibit a future extension of the Canada Line. Of course, the line would have to be double-tracked for that to ever be considered.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:31 AM   #1768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
One thing I'd like to note is that there are stations at YVR and Richmond right before single-tracking start. These are Lansdowne Station and the future YVR-3 Airport Station, which will be part of the future international terminal expansion.
that would make it worse
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:32 AM   #1769
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Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
Every third train? It's every second train. The first train from Waterfront goes to Richmond City Centre and the second train goes to YVR. And they alternate.
I must have my info wrong. I thought the pattern was going to be, from Vancouver, two trains to Richmond, one train to YVR, two trains to Richmond, one to YVR etc. because of higher ridership from Richmond.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:33 AM   #1770
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well, this just sounds like a faster 98 B-Line
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:35 AM   #1771
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how much do they save with single tracks anyways?
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:41 AM   #1772
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I thought that the line was supposed to be "built for the future" and for "future needs", but instead, it seems like it is being built for limited expansion.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:44 AM   #1773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta-bc View Post
I must have my info wrong. I thought the pattern was going to be, from Vancouver, two trains to Richmond, one train to YVR, two trains to Richmond, one to YVR etc. because of higher ridership from Richmond.
Nope, it's alternate between YVR and Richmond. "One for me, one for you, one for me, one for you...".

Though I could see them change the schedule to what you suggested, which would be like the Expo Line's train schedule: first two trains go to Surrey while the third goes to the M-Line.



Quote:
well, this just sounds like a faster 98 B-Line
Well, it'll be like three B-Lines arriving at the same time (which sometimes does happen ).
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:49 AM   #1774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada_Line View Post
I thought that the line was supposed to be "built for the future" and for "future needs", but instead, it seems like it is being built for limited expansion.
That's what I thought too when RAVco advertised it as "lasting 100 years". I was thinking capacity wise, rather than how long the structures would last.






Quote:
how much do they save with single tracks anyways?
Very very little. Take a look at this old article:



RAV double track is back
Matthew Hoekstra, Staff Reporter

The No. 3 Road leg of the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit line will have a double-track guideway to Cambie station after all.

The TransLink board of directors voted unanimously yesterday to reinstate a double guideway from Bridgeport to Cambie stations at a cost of $10.26 million.

Last November, the board removed the double track at the 11th hour as part of a number of scope reductions to meet the $1.72-billion budget. But the double guideway remained at the top of a wish list created by TransLink and RAVCo, the project manager.

TransLink staff, arguing a single track would lead to increased delays and lower system reliability, have since found the money needed for the project. The $10.26-million price tag—about half of which is needed for property acquisition—will come from TransLink’s annual capital budget.

According to a report by Sheri Plewes, vice-president of capital management and engineering for the Greater Vancouver Transit Authority, the double track would allow the system operator to better manage train failures and recover from schedule delays.

“While the single-track guideway can be designed to accommodate future double tracking if funds were available in the future, GVTA staff believe that reinstatement at a later time would be very costly and disruptive, offsetting the benefit of reduced passenger delays and maintenance based service disruption over the 30-year operating period.”

TransLink director and Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie said even though a single track has less visual impact, it would have limited the system’s expandibility.

“To put in only a single track would detract from that expandibility and it would give operational problems at the Richmond end, which would be really difficult to get around,” he said.

“I think this was important for the entire system that we (did) this.”
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:49 AM   #1775
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I don't know why they can run SkyTrain with a set schedule so everyone would know exactly when the train will be arriving, instead of guessing and waiting.

And they better not implement the "next train information" on the Canada Line like they do now. They should have a timer, like 1 min, 2 mins, or the exact time when it will arrive. Its totally useless when you see the next train coming, and then the electronic signboard flashes the information...

And another thing I don't get is that why SkyTrain stations don't have a fixed clock of any sort, this is standard equipment on almost every *real* metro/subway
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:50 AM   #1776
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edited due to duplications with earlier posts
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:55 AM   #1777
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Quote:
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I don't know why they can run SkyTrain with a set schedule so everyone would know exactly when the train will be arriving, instead of guessing and waiting.

And they better not implement the "next train information" on the Canada Line like they do now. They should have a timer, like 1 min, 2 mins, or the exact time when it will arrive. Its totally useless when you see the next train coming, and then the electronic signboard flashes the information...

And another thing I don't get is that why SkyTrain stations don't have a fixed clock of any sort, this is standard equipment on almost every *real* metro/subway
I don't think you'll see any of those for the Canada Line, we'll probably see the same displays as SkyTrain. One of the reasons there aren't timers on SkyTrain is because usually, the trains are very frequent....coming every 1-3 minutes, at least in Vancouver along the Expo.

I agree, there needs to be a set clock.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old August 24th, 2007, 07:56 AM   #1778
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sometimes, they make some crazy decisions like choosing to single track.

why did they build the M-Line first anyways?

It's pretty obvious that there's more ridership here...

and the M-Line has such great stations and expandability, I'm jealous
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Old August 24th, 2007, 08:00 AM   #1779
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The elevated stations aren't too expensive either. Pinnacle International and Concord Pacific are proposing to build a massive condo complex at the vacant lands adjacent to the future Capstan Station, and Pinnacle is offering [b$15 million[/b] to build and fast track Capstan Station construction.

And it looks like it is being fast tracked with the latest Canada Line Project Office report stating that planning has already begun for the station so that it would not affect the operations of the line..... or something like that.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old August 24th, 2007, 08:06 AM   #1780
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I think the reason why the airport has the same frequencies and amount of stations as Richmond is that the airport helped fund the line.

I can imagine the people critisizing the line of being too costly with such short stations and poor frequencies. And they might also be complaining how the people coming for the Olympics will not be impressed with it.
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