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Old March 15th, 2006, 05:37 PM   #21
brunob
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Reese, some skyscrapers became landmarks just as what in europe would be any other traditionally accepted landmark such as those you previously mentioned.
I think of the Swiss tower for instance, an instant classic that's immediately identifiable by many, although the building is by no mean ancient!
As a second example, i'll choose another Foster landmark, the communication tower in Barcelona, which is neither old nor a traditionally built monument, yet, it is one of the symbols very largely accepted as such on every barcelona brochure.
Landmarks in our days and times have taken an extra dimention in what defines them, there's no de facto rule for landmarks anymore - and yes, you can mix and match CBD's (although i hate applying this term to euro cities) with monuments, i think that's quite widely accepted in people's minds.
I'm going a tad beyond the original subject here, sorry!
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Old March 15th, 2006, 06:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnmaddict
Strange, I thought that most american tourists already knew that we europeans have a different approach to skyscrapers. Your friend from Houston should have realized that LD is already a huge CBD compared to others europeans cities, and that LD only represent less than 7% of Paris' office space. We don't need skyscrapers, the difference between Paris, and all the American cities is that we already have plenty of landmarks and beautiful churches, so we don't really need those spires! And we also have plenty of place to build office low-rises, so those skyscrapers are only a plus, a will to show that our economy is going up again, that our ambition is back, etc!
That's exactly what I was thinking when I read Reese's comment on his Houston friend's observation of Paris. I live in Austin, only 3 hours away from Houston (so I've been to Houston several times) and as far as I know it's the opposite: most Americans are surprised to see LD with its skyscrapers as many imagine European cities, even capitals, as skyscraper-less, and endowed mainly or only with historic architecture. Perhaps this Houston person is a skyscrapercity forumer and had a clue as to the skyscrapers of major European cities HEHE.

Anyway, I agree with Reese that a metropolitan area of +/- 10m could and probably should have more skyscrapers than one of +/- 4m (Houston) but it's still important to know that a city like Paris already had low-rise office space in the old CBD inside Paris before LD ever built its first towers in the 60s/70s and that those low-rise offices still exist and continue to be built. A young American city like Houston, on the other hand, would be deprived immensely of its architectural fabric if you were to take away its cluster of towers in downtown, while Paris would continue to have all its momunents and architectural grandeur with or without LD. I have the same opinion about London and any other European city featuring skyscraper or skyscraper clusters, except for maybe the less historically-endowed Frankfurt. Because of that LD for me is just a plus, not a must, which is not the case of downtowns in young American cities like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta etc, where they form a great part of the highlight.
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Old March 15th, 2006, 07:13 PM   #23
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I personnaly would hate to have a "dubai boom" in Paris, one or two CBD's far from the center are good enough
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Old March 15th, 2006, 07:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtual
I personnaly would hate to have a "dubai boom" in Paris, one or two CBD's far from the center are good enough
actually I didn't mean a boom within Paris, but in LD
having 2 clusters would be less impressive I think.... and where would it be then?
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Old March 15th, 2006, 08:46 PM   #25
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When I said Paris I meant the Paris urban area, why would I be opposed to a Dubai-like boom? Because it would be totaly useless and of poor taste. Dubai is trying to find a personnality, Paris already has one.

And then there are political reasons as to why I would be opposed to such a boom but here is not the place to discuss those.
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Old March 15th, 2006, 09:12 PM   #26
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more accurate renderings or montage if you like



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Old March 15th, 2006, 09:26 PM   #27
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I think all this looks great and genuinely hope it comes off. I'm from London, but also think of myself as European and love to see Europe doing great stuff. However it does appear that Paris is doing a Dubai and simply deciding to build a great skyline. Economics? What happened in the last year that suddenly made all this possible when before there was no demand? Government subsidy? If so why? Why not build twice as many 100m towers it looks like there is space?
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Old March 15th, 2006, 09:29 PM   #28
Matthieu
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Any news from the Hotel Meridien of La Defense?
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Old March 15th, 2006, 09:37 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
I think all this looks great and genuinely hope it comes off. I'm from London, but also think of myself as European and love to see Europe doing great stuff. However it does appear that Paris is doing a Dubai and simply deciding to build a great skyline. Economics? What happened in the last year that suddenly made all this possible when before there was no demand? Government subsidy? If so why? Why not build twice as many 100m towers it looks like there is space?
Nope, you're wrong, La Défense as you see it today is already entirely built, and demand has always been high!

The last two towers built in la Défense (CBX and Exaltis), get off the ground in places where nobody would have expected a tower, basically on the circular boulevard!The two towers going up rigth now (Granite and T1) are both oustide the administrative limits of La Défense.

More place will be available once the boulevard will be modified in the next few years, and the towers will grow there, and as there won't be a lot of space available, they'll have to build higher!

Have a look at the video to understand what will be build, and where it will be build.

Obviously, the government won't pay for the towers, we don't live in a communist country!

Last edited by bnmaddict; March 15th, 2006 at 09:48 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2006, 10:54 PM   #30
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la defense has the perfect foundation to become by far the best skyline in europe - it already has a great quantity of towers. with a few towers (only 2 or 3 well designed are needed) breaking the 250 or even 300m barrier it will get the necessary height aswell. very exciting times - hope the plans go through.
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Old March 15th, 2006, 11:01 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delahaye
la defense has the perfect foundation to become by far the best skyline in europe - it already has a great quantity of towers. with a few towers (only 2 or 3 well designed are needed) breaking the 250 or even 300m barrier it will get the necessary height aswell. very exciting times - hope the plans go through.
I do like the new scheme but I doubt that; I think it will be either Moscow or London, or perhapse istanbul
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Old March 15th, 2006, 11:08 PM   #32
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london? even if all proposals get built (which is of course nonsense), london will only have one supertall...neither the city of london cluster, nor canary wharf (or any other smaller cluster) will have the quantity and most likely the height (if the really built 5 towers between 200 and 300m plus one 400m) of la defense. sorry, but no...not london. moscow maybe. or istanbul.
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Old March 15th, 2006, 11:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delahaye
london? even if all proposals get built (which is of course nonsense), london will only have one supertall...neither the city of london cluster, nor canary wharf (or any other smaller cluster) will have the quantity and most likely the height (if the really built 5 towers between 200 and 300m plus one 400m) of la defense. sorry, but no...not london. moscow maybe. or istanbul.
Please don't start a new endless Paris vs. London fight in this thread... Let's say that London, Paris, Moscow, Istambul, Milan, Frankfurt will all have a very nice skyline in 2015.

Now let's go back to the subject: LA DEFENSE 2015
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Old March 16th, 2006, 12:08 AM   #34
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Very nice stuff but I don't think it'll be realised soon
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Old March 16th, 2006, 12:34 AM   #35
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Very nice.
The only thing we can do is waiting...
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Old March 16th, 2006, 12:36 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnmaddict
Just a reminder, the 2 towers which are under construction right now:

Granite (183m):
it's gonna be 220 m finally.
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Old March 16th, 2006, 12:38 AM   #37
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Are you sure of that kony?? Or you just expect it? lol

Last edited by thoju75; March 16th, 2006 at 12:45 AM.
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Old March 16th, 2006, 12:39 AM   #38
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Are you sure of that kony?? Or you just expect it? lol
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Old March 16th, 2006, 12:49 AM   #39
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What are your sources Kony??

The EPAD video is not reliable as for Granite tower...
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Old March 16th, 2006, 12:53 AM   #40
bnmaddict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril
What are your sources Kony??

The EPAD video is not reliable as for Granite tower...
Unfortunately, he must be day-dreaming...

But AXA will be for sure 220-230 meters! And most of the towers coming after will be higher...
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